54 réponses à ce sujet

[Silver]

Live Action Cutscenes in Mass Effect would ruin the game.

As others have stated, they were great when they were new and you moved a faceless mute through the Levels (hey, in that case: why didn't Half-Life have some) but today players are expecting immersion, and you simply don't get that with live action anymore as your character can't be shown.



Also, they would stick out like a sore thumb because you can never make the characters look like in-game.

[scottelite]

Lol would it be like Command and Conquer?

[deleted]

the early Command & Conquer games had some really good live action sequences that didn't break the flow of the games but added to it. However live action sequences in ME will just look cheesy. I do wish CGI could be implemented, though.

[scottelite]

It would kill all immersion. With fire.

[RocShemp]

SSV Enterprise wrote...

RocShemp wrote...

 the clips of the Normandy docking on Illium/Omega are so low-res, though, especially on an HDTV.

There are plenty of clips like that throughout the whole game.  Bugged the crap outta me because the game looked so beautiful by comparison, even at a modest 1920 x 1080 (I game on my 52" HDTV so that's the best I can do).  I much preffered how all the little cutscenes were generated realtime in ME1 as opposed to pre-recorded in ME2.

Pop-in and low frame rates would invade the Normandy takeoff scenes in ME1 because of that.  I don't think the 360 version of ME2 had this resolution problem.

I never had such problems in my PC copy of ME1.  But the lowres pre-recorded cutscenes were an issue for me with ME2.  ANd I've read from 360 players that they had the same issues with ME2.

Modifié par RocShemp, 12 novembre 2010 - 09:57 .

[Mikko Kinnunen]

The cutscenes we made for ME2 are actually rendered at the same 720p resolution as the rest of the game. The 'low resolution' artifacts are caused by the compression of the Bink video. The amount of compression is directly determined by the available disk space we have. There's no simple solution to fixing it, because the complexity of some of the scenes (the end game for example) would be really hard to pull off as a purely real-time scenario. In the cut scenes we basically traded some image fidelity for grander scale content without having to worry about framerate issues. In an ideal world we would reduce the compression, but that would currently mean having less content or shipping a few more game discs Hope this clears up the situation we're dealing with.

[Skilled Seeker]

Mikko Kinnunen wrote...

The cutscenes we made for ME2 are actually rendered at the same 720p resolution as the rest of the game. The 'low resolution' artifacts are caused by the compression of the Bink video. The amount of compression is directly determined by the available disk space we have. There's no simple solution to fixing it, because the complexity of some of the scenes (the end game for example) would be really hard to pull off as a purely real-time scenario. In the cut scenes we basically traded some image fidelity for grander scale content without having to worry about framerate issues. In an ideal world we would reduce the compression, but that would currently mean having less content or shipping a few more game discs Hope this clears up the situation we're dealing with.

As I expected but thanks for clearing up.

I don't mind at all how many discs ME3 covers though. Discs shouldn't compromise the quality of the game.

[the3rdbiscuit]

Mikko Kinnunen wrote...

The cutscenes we made for ME2 are actually rendered at the same 720p resolution as the rest of the game. The 'low resolution' artifacts are caused by the compression of the Bink video. [snip]

Interesting. In my experience with video the 'pixellation' of playing a lower res video at a higher resolution can, and often is, more aesthetically pleasing than extreme compression (or the lesser of two evils at least), which is why I assumed the in-game cutsenes were low res. Without knowing the file sizes, amount of compression and other details, or indeed having worked with Bink, I may be completely wrong in this case.

As far as being forced to include another disc... I'd say do it. The current juxtaposition is a little too great, in my opinion, and can break the immersion. As long as streaming isn't an issue I'd have thought including a third disc would be a good enough solution. The necessity to switch discs would be greater, though, which is an obvious down side.

Modifié par the3rdbiscuit, 13 novembre 2010 - 10:52 .

[Kronner]

Mikko Kinnunen wrote...

The cutscenes we made for ME2 are actually rendered at the same 720p resolution as the rest of the game. The 'low resolution' artifacts are caused by the compression of the Bink video. The amount of compression is directly determined by the available disk space we have. There's no simple solution to fixing it, because the complexity of some of the scenes (the end game for example) would be really hard to pull off as a purely real-time scenario. In the cut scenes we basically traded some image fidelity for grander scale content without having to worry about framerate issues. In an ideal world we would reduce the compression, but that would currently mean having less content or shipping a few more game discs Hope this clears up the situation we're dealing with.

So why does the PC version get the same craptastic quality like xbox360? There is no disk space limit for the PC.
At least you could offer them as a free download.

Modifié par Kronner, 13 novembre 2010 - 11:35 .

[the3rdbiscuit]

Kronner wrote...

So why does the PC version get the same craptastic quality like xbox360? There is no disk space limit for the PC.
At least you could offer them as a free download.

There's no disc space limit for any format as theoretically any number of discs can be used, but there has to be a balance between quality, performance and practicallity amongst other things.

The only game that comes to mind (for 360 at least) which has more than 3 discs is Lost Odyssey, which was very linear so you only had to swap discs three times during a playthrough. With a more open game like Mass Effect more discs would mean swapping discs more frequently as there's only so much data you can have that can be loaded no matter which disc is currently being used.

Practically, I'd think 3 discs would be feasible, but any more than that would prove frustrating for the user.

Modifié par the3rdbiscuit, 13 novembre 2010 - 11:56 .

[Skilled Seeker]

Wouldn't frustrate us PC users. Why not make 2 slightly different versions like Kronner said to take advantage of the PC's capabilities. The PC version should have high resolution textures, uncompressed prerendered videos and less restrictive gaemplay (like being able to recruit squadmates in any order in ME2).

[KenLyns]

Mikko Kinnunen wrote...
There's no simple solution to fixing it, because the complexity of some of the scenes (the end game for example) would be really hard to pull off as a purely real-time scenario. In the cut scenes we basically traded some image fidelity for grander scale content without having to worry about framerate issues.

Thanks for chiming in Mikko. Interesting to see it was a performance issue. I always thought it was a loading time issue (pre-rendered video can be streamed instantaneously).

[Atmosfear3]

the3rdbiscuit wrote...

Kronner wrote...

So why does the PC version get the same craptastic quality like xbox360? There is no disk space limit for the PC.
At least you could offer them as a free download.

There's no disc space limit for any format as theoretically any number of discs can be used, but there has to be a balance between quality, performance and practicallity amongst other things.

The only game that comes to mind (for 360 at least) which has more than 3 discs is Lost Odyssey, which was very linear so you only had to swap discs three times during a playthrough. With a more open game like Mass Effect more discs would mean swapping discs more frequently as there's only so much data you can have that can be loaded no matter which disc is currently being used.

Practically, I'd think 3 discs would be feasible, but any more than that would prove frustrating for the user.

Every additional disk shipped with the game costs the publisher something. There are also additional fees you must pay to Microsoft if your game exceeds 1 disk on the 360.

[ScooterPie88]

Not to mention changing disks even though it doesn't happen that often pisses me off because I'm a lazy f#@! and after sitting down for 3 hours of gaming I'm content to keep sitting there.

[OneDrunkMonk]

There is a certain continuity to having cutscenes rendered in engine. Having said that I really liked the CG Jack that was in one of the trailers. Not the silly dialogue but the render.

[RocShemp]

Mikko Kinnunen wrote...

The cutscenes we made for ME2 are actually rendered at the same 720p resolution as the rest of the game. The 'low resolution' artifacts are caused by the compression of the Bink video. The amount of compression is directly determined by the available disk space we have. There's no simple solution to fixing it, because the complexity of some of the scenes (the end game for example) would be really hard to pull off as a purely real-time scenario. In the cut scenes we basically traded some image fidelity for grander scale content without having to worry about framerate issues. In an ideal world we would reduce the compression, but that would currently mean having less content or shipping a few more game discs Hope this clears up the situation we're dealing with.

So is there a chance the PS3 version of the cutscenes would have far less compression (given it'll be on a BD rather than a pair of DVD's)? And, if so, would you guys be inclined to make the less compressed cutscenes available for download so they can look better on PC?

Modifié par RocShemp, 13 novembre 2010 - 07:34 .

[the3rdbiscuit]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

Every additional disk shipped with the game costs the publisher something. There are also additional fees you must pay to Microsoft if your game exceeds 1 disk on the 360.

Valid points, but it doesn't make the idea unfeasible. The expenditure would be covered so comfortably by income that it'd make the extra cost almost a non-issue. And certainly a price worth paying for significanlty improved cinematics.

Modifié par the3rdbiscuit, 13 novembre 2010 - 08:42 .

[kraidy1117]

No!

Noo!

NOOO!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Please god no. I rather Bioware focus there resources on important things, not that crap.

[Kronner]

kraidy1117 wrote...

No!
Noo!
NOOO!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please god no. I rather Bioware focus there resources on important things, not that crap.

lol

"focus resources"
all they would have to do is move the compression slider towards quality instead of crap

[Skilled Seeker]

I think Kraidy is refering to live action cutscenes. At least I hope so.

[Emyer]

the3rdbiscuit wrote...

Mikko Kinnunen wrote...

The cutscenes we made for ME2 are actually rendered at the same 720p resolution as the rest of the game. The 'low resolution' artifacts are caused by the compression of the Bink video. [snip]

Interesting. In my experience with video the 'pixellation' of playing a lower res video at a higher resolution can, and often is, more aesthetically pleasing than extreme compression (or the lesser of two evils at least), which is why I assumed the in-game cutsenes were low res. Without knowing the file sizes, amount of compression and other details, or indeed having worked with Bink, I may be completely wrong in this case.

As far as being forced to include another disc... I'd say do it. The current juxtaposition is a little too great, in my opinion, and can break the immersion. As long as streaming isn't an issue I'd have thought including a third disc would be a good enough solution. The necessity to switch discs would be greater, though, which is an obvious down side.

Disc swapping is actually the smallest con, the biggest problem would be that it would increase the cost of manufacturing the game, not only the production cost of adding one extra disc but also the fact that MS charges royalty fees for each extra disc a game takes(Read that in an interview with John Carmack about "Rage"), I don't know if simply having higher-res FMVs would justify the cost, SE certainly didn't when they lowered the resolution of FF XIII's cutscenes to make it fit in 3 discs

[Skilled Seeker]

Gah stupid greedy microsoft and their reliance on archaic tech.

[Inquisitor Recon]

This idea that disk royalty fees jump dramatically when you move from three to two disks is simply false. But honestly I didn't have any problem with the cutscenes, they just seemed slightly grainy, that is all.

DVD archaic tech? That is BS. Back in my day you had to deal with FIVE or more CDs for some games.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 13 novembre 2010 - 11:55 .

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

it would be nice if lower artifact cutscenes could be released as patches....but size restrictions would probably create problems for XBox users...PC users it wouldn't be as big a problem though.