268 réponses à ce sujet

[SirOccam]

Just to make this clear...rogues can use a bow or only daggers, right? Not a sword and a dagger, or two swords?

I was under the initial impression that rogues would be able to dual-wield period, meaning some combination of swords and daggers, but after the most recent podcast, I think I was wrong. Mike kept saying "Isabela is a rogue, so she uses her two daggers" and things like that.

If this is right, it strikes me as rather odd. Who duels with a pair of daggers? Duelist was my favorite spec in Origins, and I always wielded two one-handed swords. It would be a shame if that possibility were lost.

I mean, just look how awesome two one-handers can be. Rathbone totally embodies the essence of a Duelist there, with quickness and grace and skill as opposed to brute force. But even if using two swords is out, a sword and dagger seems like it should be the standard.

[upsettingshorts]

Well, wouldn't a duelist in the strictest sense have one one-handed sword?  I mean, with nothing in the off hand?  For balance?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 novembre 2010 - 02:01 .

[Ulous]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Well, wouldn't a duelist in the strictest sense have one one-handed sword?  I mean, with nothing in the off hand?  For balance?

It would be good to see some benefit from using one one hander, like they did with KOTOR.

[Teknor]

Ulous wrote...

It would be good to see some benefit from using one one hander, like they did with KOTOR.

There was no one hander in KOTOR, only 2H and dual.

[jamesraylor]

a lot of the men that use to duel, use a dirk in their off hand, so dagger and rapier/ foil would or should be the norm.

[blothulfur]

I suppose they might mix it up with a couple of hatchets but it did sound like mid sized weapons were out the window, pity I always played a strength based rogue as a dwarf because it looked right and was more of a challenge than the cunning or dex builds and sword and dagger always looked good on them. Then again I would like to see a main gauche or spiked buckler as a viable option for the off hand, oh and they shouldn't look like they're about to begin dancing the macarena.

Modifié par blothulfur, 11 novembre 2010 - 02:14 .

[joriandrake]

Teknor wrote...

Ulous wrote...

It would be good to see some benefit from using one one hander, like they did with KOTOR.

There was no one hander in KOTOR, only 2H and dual.

he means the basic lightsabers, which you may hold with two hands but thats unnecessary

[Ulous]

Teknor wrote...



There was no one hander in KOTOR, only 2H and dual.

I must be reading the below wrong then I guess?

Dueling

Prerequisites: None, Characters that focus on using single one-handed weapons
in battle gain +1 to attack and +1 to defense due to the efficiency of
this form of combat. This applies to both ranged and melee weapons. This
feat also applies when using unarmed combat.

[SirOccam]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Well, wouldn't a duelist in the strictest sense have one one-handed sword?  I mean, with nothing in the off hand?  For balance?

Like jamesraylor says, using a dagger in the off-hand wasn't unusual, as I understand it. But even so, I'd be happy with a single sword alone anyway.

[Wulfram]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Well, wouldn't a duelist in the strictest sense have one one-handed sword?  I mean, with nothing in the off hand?  For balance?

Depends if they're Florentine.

Rapier with a parrying dagger would be a nice duellisty style

[Shepard Lives]

Lack of swords for rogues would SUCK.

[KennethAFTopp]

I don't think we'll have a single sword alone talent tree, though I always did have a theory that if you chose the right abilities in DA:O a rogue with a single sword could just as well as a dual wielder to some extent at least...

[_- Songlian -]

SirOccam wrote...

Who duels with a pair of daggers? 

Personally, I find dual wielding with daggers to be much cooler than with a sword and a dagger. If I'm not mistaking, Duncan used two daggers in The Calling as well. 

Though I agree that restricting it to daggers only would be kinda sucky. 

Modifié par - Songlian -, 11 novembre 2010 - 02:31 .

[Sakawatchi]

1) In KotOR a one-handed lightsaber dealt less damage than a 2H one or wielding one in each hand, but it was more precise. Basically, even if you didn't use the tree, a one-handed light saber was a good weapon. The 2H or dual-wielding option dealt more damage, but if you didn't use the skill-tree the times you missed and the penalty basically eradicated the extra damage. Plus it was really frustrating to miss all the time *grr*

2) Indeed, pirates and gentlemen often dueled wielding a light(<----!!!!) sword or a rapier in one hand and a dirk
in the off hand so that option should logically be avilable for a rouge. Wielding two swords though, just imagine it. Most people are weaker in their off arm (as for me I always lose when I arm-wrestle using my left hand) and the coordination needed to wield two swords (if they were intended to be used with a shield) has to be something else. And I sure don't want to se my rouge run around with two pointy sticks like the swords they used in the 18th century and today when you fence. That would just look ridiculous.

And that made me remember: The swords typically used together with a dirk were these pointy sticks, and they were made for thrusts, not slashing. Not always used for that though..

Modifié par Sakawatchi, 11 novembre 2010 - 02:38 .

[Ulous]

- Songlian - wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

Who duels with a pair of daggers? 

Personally, I find dual wielding with daggers to be much cooler than with a sword and a dagger. If I'm not mistaking, Duncan used two daggers in The Calling as well. 

Though I agree that restricting it to daggers only would be kinda sucky. 

I think he means duel as in the sense of the word, in my mind a duel would be using one one handed sword, using it to stab, swipe and parry while using the other arm to balance and maybe punch/elbow etc, where as daggers are associated with assasins who use stealh and/or dexterity to avoid attacks altogether......... but then we go down the road of mixing real life with CRPG's which should be avoided I suppose.

[SirOccam]

Sakawatchi wrote...

Wielding two swords though, just imagine it. Most people are weaker in their off arm (as for me I always lose when I arm-wrestle using my left hand) and the coordination needed to wield two swords (if they were intended to be used with a shield) has to be something else. And I sure don't want to se my rouge run around with two pointy sticks like the swords they used in the 18th century and today when you fence. That would just look ridiculous.

It doesn't look ridiculous in the video I linked. It looks damn cool.

Ulous wrote...

- Songlian - wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

Who duels with a pair of daggers?

Personally, I find dual wielding with daggers to be much cooler than with a sword and a dagger. If I'm not mistaking, Duncan used two daggers in The Calling as well. 

Though I agree that restricting it to daggers only would be kinda sucky.

I think he means duel as in the sense of the word, in my mind a duel would be using one one handed sword, using it to stab, swipe and parry while using the other arm to balance and maybe punch/elbow etc, where as daggers are associated with assasins who use stealh and/or dexterity to avoid attacks altogether......... but then we go down the road of mixing real life with CRPG's which should be avoided I suppose.

Yeah, I was mostly referring to the Duelist spec here, not just dual-wielding in general. Specifically Isabela, the original Duelist. In Origins (IIRC) she used a one-hander plus a dagger.

That rogues would be allowed to dual-wield swords with daggers is just an abstraction of the above.

Modifié par SirOccam, 11 novembre 2010 - 02:49 .

[_- Songlian -]

@ Ulous and SirOccam



Ah, ok, I see what you mean now. Well, in that case I understand your problem, though I think it's is a bit too technical for my taste and it probably wouldn't bother me too much when I'm playing.

[abat223]

I have read multiple statements where Devs said mages: staff and "sword staff"

Warriors: 1h +shield or 2h weapon. Rogue: dual dagger or archery



They also said that could change before launch

[SirOccam]

- Songlian - wrote...

@ Ulous and SirOccam

Ah, ok, I see what you mean now. Well, in that case I understand your problem, though I think it's is a bit too technical for my taste and it probably wouldn't bother me too much when I'm playing.

Maybe I misspoke. I wasn't trying to be technical...all I meant is that dual-wielding daggers doesn't seem to fit the concept of a Duelist as presented in Dragon Age: Origins. It's supposed to be about quickness and grace and form, and knife fights don't really evoke that same image. The idea of people duelling with daggers just seems discordant to me, that's all.

Isabela is where the Duelist spec originates in the first place, AND she uses a sword and dagger in DAO, so it's especially weird that she now uses a pair of daggers, for both reasons.

And then my last reason for asking for clarification is simply because I liked dual-wielding swords in DAO.

[tmp7704]

SirOccam wrote...

Just to make this clear...rogues can use a bow or only daggers, right? Not a sword and a dagger, or two swords?

In the dev answers thread, it was said that rogues use what they refer to as "dual wield weapon"  The exact look of these weapons when equipped is up to the art department -- so the art department could choose such weapon to look like pair of daggers, but in theory they could also choose to make an item that looks like sword+dagger, or pair of axes or whathaveyou.

[LadyJaneGrey]

Ulous wrote...

- Songlian - wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

Who duels with a pair of daggers? 

Personally, I find dual wielding with daggers to be much cooler than with a sword and a dagger. If I'm not mistaking, Duncan used two daggers in The Calling as well. 

Though I agree that restricting it to daggers only would be kinda sucky. 

I think he means duel as in the sense of the word, in my mind a duel would be using one one handed sword, using it to stab, swipe and parry while using the other arm to balance and maybe punch/elbow etc, where as daggers are associated with assasins who use stealh and/or dexterity to avoid attacks altogether......... but then we go down the road of mixing real life with CRPG's which should be avoided I suppose.

Agreed; otherwise we start thinking about how the term "duelist" shouldn't be used at all for a rogue-based character.

[Apollo Starflare]

Don't see why they would remove the sword/dagger combo, it'll be a shame if that's the case. I can more or less understand them removing sword/sword dueling (although I agree SirOccam, it can look awesome) because it was only available through mastering duel wielding in Origins and by restricting it so they would require a melee rogue to use their 'class' weapon in at least one hand.



Didn't we get confirmation that axes are in though? Surely rogue's aren't completely restricted? I would be very surprised if this isn't just a case of misunderstanding and that sword (or other large weapon) + dagger fighting is still in.

[Shevy]

tmp7704 wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

Just to make this clear...rogues can use a bow or only daggers, right? Not a sword and a dagger, or two swords?

In the dev answers thread, it was said that rogues use what they refer to as "dual wield weapon"  The exact look of these weapons when equipped is up to the art department -- so the art department could choose such weapon to look like pair of daggers, but in theory they could also choose to make an item that looks like sword+dagger, or pair of axes or whathaveyou.

But its not done with a design change. If you equip a one-hander and a dagger, you'll fight in a different way as when you're wielding two daggers. That said, the animations have to change, too. That's the reason, why I doubt, that they will allow you to wield other weapons than daggers.
You dont stap with a sword and you dont cleave with a dagger.

However, it would be really sad, because that would mean, that one-handed axes, swords and maces would be restricted to tankwarriors, boring.

[upsettingshorts]

Shevy_001 wrote...

You dont stab with a sword

News to me.

Seriously though it depends on the kind of sword.