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I'd like to see Shepard have more individuality in ME3. Here's what I mean... (and some related things)


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#1
Crimmsonwind

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Hey there. Forgive my tendency to ramble; this could get a little long... Oh, and Spoiler Alert.
For easier reading, I'll break things down into sections, because I know I "talk" a LOT.
For a bullet-point list summarizing the oodles of paragraphs that many may consider tl;dr, just scroll down to the bottom of this post.
Feel free to CIVILLY DISCUSS ideas, maybe we can really flesh these out and do BioWare's job for them. ;)

The way I play, personally
Just to give you an idea of how I play, first: I've played ME1 way too many times, more than any one person should, with playthroughs clocking in at pretty lengthy amounts of time on a good portion of them. I haven't played ME2 quite as extensively (yet). My Shepard is almost always Colonial, Sole Survivor, Engineer femshep. The way I roleplay her in my head, she can't bring herself to, say, sacrifice a room full of hostages to kill one batarian terrorist leader, which I attribute to her background. She wants to help people live if she can do anything about it right then and there. Just as important, she likes to tinker with her omnitool, trying to improve it (which I justified by using the tech Research and Upgrades in ME2).

I always considered the omnitool to be a pretty powerful tool, because that's the impression I got from seeing people in the gameworld use it. It could be used as a weapon, as a communication device, it could play back incriminating audio, do body scans, transfer credits, and I'm sure it's capable of doing a multitude of other things.

Why can't we do this?
This got me thinking, not just about my engineer and her lacklustre omnitool, but about biotic abilities as well. Why can't we do more? I liked ME1's level up system and point distribution system (then again, I also liked driving around random planets on the Mako, maybe I'm not really all there mentally :P ), and I liked having an inventory (even if it wasn't particularly user-friendly). I like shooters as well, but I always liked RPGs, so I liked ME1's way of doing things. Yes, this is the "ME2 is turning it's back on RPG fans and catering to shooter fans" argument. The point is, when I've played games like NWN and Baldur's Gate, where you could really customize your characters skills and abilities at an almost ludicrous level, I'd like to see something similar, although certainly not as extensive.

Because...

When I see characters using their tech to do things such as:
-summoning their car with their omnitool (Vasir)
-scanning bodies with their omnitool (Mordin, Aria's bodyguards, probably a few other characters)
-incriminating Saren with damning audio evidence (Tali)
-make a wrist-mounted goddamn Tower Shield (a certain Yahg)
and other things, I think, "Why can't I do that?" Is my Shepard stupid? Brain dead? This is some cool stuff, I wanna do that. Because dammit, I'm Commander Shepard.

Then we get to biotics. I played a Vanguard once, I liked it. I enjoy biotic abilities, I think biotics are powerful characters. But let's take a look at the things we see other biotics do:
-envelope themselves in biotics to slow their fall or generally look cool (Samara, Vasir)
-bring down a dome of kinetic energy on top of a certain yahg's head (Liara)
-throw a piece of furniture, and deflect said piece of furniture (Jack and Miranda respectively)
-pull off what must be the most awesome wrestling move in the history of forever (Jack's escape from Purgatory)
-lift and biotically blast Enyala (Miranda, loyalty mission)
-throw more furniture (Liara)
-have an epic biotic-clashing showdown (Samara and Morinth)
-plenty of other things, I'm sure.

Soldier characters, I can't quite get a proper list together of things we see them do that I would like to see as an ability. There isn't a lot of emphasis on soldier abilities, to be honest. I also always found them a little drab, but that's just my personal preference.

class Recognition
These lists sort of go hand in hand with lack of class recognition in Mass Effect. I'd like to think that an engineer is fairly intelligent, and should be able to participate in conversations about technology with a little more expertise. Biotic adepts should be able to talk about biotics. Soldiers... I'm not really sure what soldiers would do. Talk about guns? Obviously this would need some thought, particularly with the hybrid classes.

I was thinking that it could be similar to conversations in KotOR, and the D&D based games. I'll use a fictional conversation from KotOR as an example.

Let's say I have put a fair amount of points into the Security skill; enough that I receive a bonus conversation line beginning with [security]. Were I to select it, my character would say something intelligent about this Security issue. Perhaps we're talking about a defense system in a crime lord's base. The conversation line may not necessarily do anything; I may not be able to shut it down from where I am or hack it, but I say something that acknowledges my extensive knowledge of security systems. It just adds a little more depth to my character, a little more flavor to the game. With Mass Effect, we're limited to the wheel. Perhaps such a personalized conversation would only come up were I to meet that prerequisite in the first place. For example, maybe my engineer would get into a brief discussion about a security system's inner workings because she would understand it, where as other classes would not even get this more in-depth conversation, instead just acknowledging that there is a security system that is in their way, and moving on in the conversation.

Ideas about handling class Recognition for Hybrid classes
But again, what about the hybrid classes? The infiltrator is half Techie, half Soldier! Yes, it is. There are two ways I can think of to approach this.
1) The first way I thought about is for the infiltrator to be involved in conversations involving stealth and infiltration, because, well, they're infiltrators. It doesn't quite follow the same logic as breaking down conversations into the Tech, Biotic, and Soldier categories, but it could easily be as effective if written, thought out, and integrated properly. This obviously needs thought and fleshing out, if one were to go thir route.
2) The second way I thought of is to break these class-specific conversations into two tiers. The lower tier would be a slightly more in-depth conversation about a topic, reflecting on your Shepard's slightly more advanced knowledge of the topic, be it biotics related, technology-related, or soldier-related. This tier would be available to the "pure" classes and the "hybrid" classes that they apply to. The higher tier would offer a further advanced opportunity to flaunt your Shepard's knowledge of ther preferred expertise. This second tier would be available only to the "pure" classes. So, for instance, this is how it would apply to an Infiltrator. The infiltrator would be able to have low tier conversations about the conversations flagged for Soldiers and Techs. An Engineer, on the other hand, would have access to both conversation tiers for Tech, but no tiers for any other classes. Ideally, these conversations would be nothing more than character flavor, maybe offering very slight bonuses in beneficial areas for that class. They would miss out on bonuses that are only available to other classes, though, to keep things balanced.

Ideas about Trainers in Mass Effect
Perhaps, to further the class recognition, you could learn more about your particular class from a squad mate or some other tutor somewhere in the Mass Effect universe. For instance, if I were playing an Adept in ME2, maybe Samara would offer to let me meditate with her, where she could impart some asari Justicar wisdom and help my biotics grow. But what about the hybrid classes? Good question. I was thinking about it, and I think I came up with something of a solution.

Let's say that "pure" classes (Engineer, Adept, Soldier) could study under one of these mentors and receive a 30% bonus to their "pure" abilities (again, this would need some work; would it affect cooldown or damage? Or both? This is just a hypothetical example, so just go with it, please).

The hybrid classes could have two options. They could either divide this point bonus in half, earning a 15% gain to each half by studying under both mentors, OR they could choose the boost only one half of their abilities by the full 30%, leaving the other half at it's base. I could choose, as a Vanguard, to boost my biotic abilities by 30% and leave my combat abilities as they are.

The "OMG why isn't my background playing a larger role" argument
While we're on the topic of developing a bit more individuality with Commander Shepard, I feel the need to state, rather strongly, that Shepard's background should come more into play. I'm glad that's it's been mentioned more, particularly in the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC. But I find myself wondering why it isn't brought up more in the main retail game. I'm sure it has something to do with appealing to new players, but I can't stress this enough: the Mass Effect series is a trilogy, with a beginning, middle, and end. The long-term fans want to see their many hours of play have an actual impact. If you really want to give newer players a little more control over their Shepard, you should have made some kind of primer in the beginning, presenting new players with the major decisions that we had to make, give them some neutral information, and let them make the decisions.

Making more definitive alliances
But, I digress. Back to addressing the backgrounds. There's the "childhood background" option and the "military background" option, as we know. These were nicely addressed in Mass Effect 1, with our own personal quests. In ME2 there are faint tips of the hat to our backgrounds, but not much more than that. I wouldn't really have a problem with this; we've dealt with it in the first game, we don't really need to deal with it any further. BUT... and I'm a little biased here, playing a Sole Survivor... shouldn't we have a bigger reaction to being forced into servitude with Cerberus? Even if you aren't playing with a Sole Survivor background, there's a decent chance you ran pursued Admiral Kohaku's quest. Even if you didn't, you've run across a quest or a transmission here and there in ME1 that made Cerberus seem a little shady.

Now, my personal preference is to tell Cerberus to go scratch, but I have plenty of friends who would like the opportunity to totally side with Cerberus in ME2.

Shepard's ties to Cerberus are handled fairly poorly, I think. We never get the option to really swing either way. We can voice our opinion, but no matter how much I whine about being chained to Cerberus, I'm still chained to Cerberus. For the hell of it, I played a little more Pro-Cerberus once, and I never seemed to get the opportunity to really say "I want to sign up with Cerberus, totally and completely." Even at the end, with either option, you're telling the Illusive man that he is doing things your way now.

What we need is an opportunity to really discuss our affiliations, and choose our alliances, and let those whom we don't like, KNOW that we don't like them.

Ideas about flashy interrupts (because hey, why not?)
Also, as a side note, I'd like to see more scenes like the Interrupts, but perhaps something more flashy and less moral. To me, Mass Effect has always had a cinematic quality to it. I feel like I'm in a really long movie, really participating in the events around me. I think a button press during certain scenes to do something more flashy would be kinda neat. Here's a highly exaggerated example: You're running along a rooftop. You're coming up to the edge. The (Whatever) key appears on your screen, you have 3 seconds to press it. If you don't press it, you simply leap across the gap, tuck, roll, and get back up to continue running. If you DO press the (whatever) button, you will do a triple back flip while juggling flaming donkeys and riding a unicycle. The scene will then continue. There will be no penalty for NOT pressing the button, if you're just not fast enough at quicktime presses like that; it's just a little something extra.

Bullet-point summary
Over all, here's what I think Shepard needs in the Mass Effect series.
-More unique class abilities
-More in-game class recognition
-More class- and background-specific unique dialogue
-More roleplaying elements (not enough to drown a player unsavvy to RPGs, just enough to add a little more customization- I thought ME1 was great in that field, ability-wise)
-More recognition of Shepard's backgrounds
-A choice to make more decisive alliances
-A more cinematic feel

Modifié par Crimmsonwind, 12 novembre 2010 - 02:23 .


#2
Kazzar

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You have a valid point with everything said here. Especially with the class, backstory, and the RPG and cinematic elements. With the class, nothing in the games are really tailored to suit whichever class you pick, apart from a few tweaks in gameplay here and there. the backstory needs to be explored ALOT more, we should really know more about our own Shepard's. The cinematic elements never really bothered me that much, but there should be more of them, and make them stand out a bit more coz I was really bummed that hardly anything you did in ME1 had an impact in ME2. At loads of times, it feels more like a shooting game or even maybe(stretching it FAR) a strategy game at times. 

Modifié par Kazzar, 12 novembre 2010 - 02:39 .


#3
Guest_rynluna_*

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Nice OP.  I have to agree and I think that it's vital for them to put the focus back on Shepard.  ME2 felt more like they were showing off their new characters and gameplay mechanics instead of focusing on their protagonist's story.  I don't hate the game, not by a longshot but when most of your ME1 decisions are settled over emails, it feels kind of like a letdown.  I'd like missions/quests based on your background and psych profile in ME3 like we had in ME1.

Crimmsonwind wrote...

 If you DO press the (whatever) button, you will do a triple back flip while juggling flaming donkeys and riding a unicycle. The scene will then continue. There will be no penalty for NOT pressing the button, if you're just not fast enough at quicktime presses like that; it's just a little something extra.


I totally LOL'd at this but I see what you are getting at.  :P

#4
Crimmsonwind

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Hah, thanks guys. I agree. Things need some fixun'.

#5
Guest_yorkj86_*

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Too many variables.  You get to use your class' cool abilities during missions, where you can be overpowered, and your squadmates can suddenly be gimped.  They balance each other out, establishing that some of Shepard's squadmates are simply more powerful than he is.

They also need to keep Shepard as neutral as possible for cutscenes.  Everyone can use guns.  Everyone responds to guns.  They just need to make sure Shepard pulls out a gun he can actually use, of course.

Lastly, I'll throw in the topic of disk space.  Consider the royalty costs demanded by Microsoft for multi-disk 360 games.

Modifié par yorkj86, 12 novembre 2010 - 05:09 .


#6
Crimmsonwind

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The abilities don't have to be some godlike ability, though. Like I said a few times, this needs thinking and plotting out.



I've migrated over to the PC, so I wasn't considering disk space. I'll give you that. But there must be a way to utilize the space to make things work. If disk space is the reason I can't play games that are more than 20 hours long anymore (nobody makes them), then something has to be done. I like playing long games. :/



Hm. Gonna need to think.

#7
Guest_yorkj86_*

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Crimmsonwind wrote...

The abilities don't have to be some godlike ability, though. Like I said a few times, this needs thinking and plotting out.

I've migrated over to the PC, so I wasn't considering disk space. I'll give you that. But there must be a way to utilize the space to make things work. If disk space is the reason I can't play games that are more than 20 hours long anymore (nobody makes them), then something has to be done. I like playing long games. :/

Hm. Gonna need to think.


I play on the PC, too, but they have to plan around the 360's hardware limitations and Microsoft's royalty fees.  The PS3 becoming a platform for ME probably won't shake things up, because they still have to plan around the 360.

#8
Ragnarok521

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Well written and thought out. I especially would like the classes having more of an effect on dialogue options and actions. Like the thugs you run into on Omega, instead of pointing a gun at them, why not show off your biotics to intimidate them?

Modifié par Ragnarok521, 12 novembre 2010 - 08:30 .


#9
Crimmsonwind

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yorkj86 wrote...

Too many variables.  You get to use your class' cool abilities during missions, where you can be overpowered, and your squadmates can suddenly be gimped.  They balance each other out, establishing that some of Shepard's squadmates are simply more powerful than he is.

They also need to keep Shepard as neutral as possible for cutscenes.  Everyone can use guns.  Everyone responds to guns.  They just need to make sure Shepard pulls out a gun he can actually use, of course.

Lastly, I'll throw in the topic of disk space.  Consider the royalty costs demanded by Microsoft for multi-disk 360 games.


Alright, now that I've mulled it over for a while...

I know a lot of the original post is wishful thinking, and that it would most likely have to be watered down if we wanted to see any of it. I think it's entirely doable; they've got the resources and the talent. But they do have to deal with hardware limitations and whatnot. So...

The powers don't have to be some super awesome amazing God-mode trigger. It wouldn't be particularly practical to run around with a giant shield. I guess what I'd like to see more, having thought about it, is Shepard using their abilities in cutscenes or scripted scenes. IE, Enemy X is throwing a chair at Shepard. The game could run some kind of check: Does Shepard have biotic abilities? A) Yes. Deflect chair with biotics. B) No. Duck. It's not something  particularly game-changing, just a little extra reminder that your Shepard may be a biotic. Sometimes guns are just easier, and yes, they are relatable. But if we have other tools at our disposal, I don't understand why they're mostly ignored. Why should the cutscenes be kept neutral? They made such a big deal about there  being no "canon" Shepard, that each and every player creates their own unique Shepard, and that we are the ones role-playing them and dictating their actions (although in the end we're all running the same gauntlet, which kind of bothers me as well). It would take more work and more animation and resources, but as technology advances that's becoming less of a problem. 

Disk space. If I'm not mistaken, Mass Effect 2 came on two discs. I know the Collector's Edition did (I mean two actual play discs, not counting the third Bonus disc). They're obviously willing to deal with whatever royalties they have to pay, they know Mass Effect is going to sell. It's a little irritating to have to swap out discs, but it wasn't a gamebreaker for me by any means. It's doable. I'm sure it's not a problem if you have the room on your HD to install it, but I'm stuck with my original bite-sized HD and I'm practically out of room, so I feel that pain. I'd be more than willing to swap out discs, in that case.

Hardware limitations seem to be the biggest problem with the consoles. I'm not sure how games are constructed, I won't pretend to know what resources take up the most space or whatever. I'm sure they're going to upgrade the graphics to some degree, but they don't need to go nuts, I think. I don't know how much extra space adding class-specific animations like the biotic example I used above would take up, but I feel like in the grand scheme of things, it wouldn't be that much more.

I don't know. I just feel like not doing it seems to be the lazy way out. They have the ability, I'm sure they could make it work. :/

#10
PoisonTheCity

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I agree with pretty much everything you've said, especially the part on biotics. I got a little butthurt with the (otherwise legendary) Shadow Broker DLC with the rampant cinematic biotics, but my adept couldn't cushion that Vasir fall with hers. The whole time they were plummeting and Vasir had her pretty blue biotics around her I was waiting for my Shep to get them too. I certainly don't know everything I could about cinematic design and the way it was done in ME2, but even if they simply put the blue sparklies around a biotic Shep and not changed anything else about the scene, I would have been fooled into thinking that she'd cushioned the fall anyway.

The part when Liara sends out that biotic bubble to shield them also comes to mind. I'm alright with her sending out the bubble, but does my biotics-endowed Shep have to look so... surprised when she does? I know there was a similar scenario in ME1, when you just arrive on Noveria and you and your party get all threatening looking toward the security - Liara gets her biotics crackling, and I would have loved for my Shep to have done the same. While I haven't yet played a tech-based class, I can imagine there being similar situations to these.

While I understand there are limits, I'm hoping for a bit more class acknowledgement in ME3. Even if it was just some throwaway references, lines, or a tiny change in the way a minor scene plays out, I'd probably have a nerdgasm.

Modifié par PoisonTheCity, 13 novembre 2010 - 02:33 .


#11
FireEye

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<3

#12
Guest_yorkj86_*

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There are a couple of instances where developers have found that they needed to cut content from the 360-release of a game in order to save money on the disc royalties.  There was John Carmack saying that id's "Rage' would look worse on the 360 due to disc-space issues.  "Lost Planet 2"  had content cut from its release for the same reason.  Developers just aren't willing to pay the extra money to give their games' players more content for their purchase.  The DVDs for the PC-release of titles can be printed by anyone, whereas Microsoft prints their own discs, and thus the royalty charge.  So, developers can risk pissing off their 360 playerbase (and Microsoft - you wouldn't like Microsoft when they're angry) by including more content in the PS3/PC versions of their titles, or they can bow to Microsoft, and cut things out, instead (then sell it as DLC, at additional cost to the consumer).

That's a summary of the disc-space issue.  This is an objective look, not a "PS3 & PC Master Race" push.

Modifié par yorkj86, 13 novembre 2010 - 02:50 .


#13
Crimmsonwind

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Maaaan, Microsoft ruins everything.

#14
Sorrel

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It really does suck that Microsoft is so money-hungry. Pay for games, pay for content, pay to play online, pay for dinky clothing for your avatar, pay, pay, pay. And in the end, we console players get a little shafted like that.



I think I wanna move over to PC gaming, at least for Mass Effect.



I definitely agree with you, OP, about being able to 'do more' with our omnitools and biotics. It's called an omnitool, how come I can only tip a stripper with it?

It's kind of the 'Cutscene Wonder' trope, things in actual gameplay don't work the way they do in cutscenes.

#15
Sable Phoenix

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I really love all these ideas, and even if some of them might not be feasible, they ought to be at least attempted during ME3's development. At the very least, have the background and service history make a bigger impact on conversations and quests again, and have the player's biotic or tech abilities acknowledged in some way.

#16
Destroy Raiden_

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I like OP idea on having convo brackets on the wheel during curtain conversations I think the rarely used left side of the wheel will work perfectly for this I like how techs can talk more openly about tech, solders about strategy and blowing things up, and Biotics on well all things biotic. Would definitely add flavor to the character development.



I don’t think our child and military lives where so well done in one I mean one little quest or one guy for Starship shep a drunk wants her help that’s her childhood mission that sucked I want to go live on the starship in flashback mood do things help people on board maybe shep was asked way back then to deliver goods to somewhere and it didn’t work as planned. Earth Shep be little gang shep beat people up meet the person who saved their life. Midior shep be young shep hiding and fighting with make shift weapons or biotics to stay alive while their home is being destroyed by Batarians. Those would be childhood mission not helping one random person but overlapping exploration flashback levels. Same would go for military missions too no npc says I remember you lead that team and it killed my brother on Akuze. Instead we do flashback missions of Akuze the thresher maws all dive out your men are fighting and being slaughtered Shep has to hold out until evac arrives, ect for all other military backgrounds set it up the player plays slightly before, during, and maybe in curtain cases slightly after.




#17
Crimmsonwind

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I don't know if a flashback sequence would necessarily fit into Mass Effect, though. It's not a bad idea, and I'd like to see the backgrounds explored in a little more detail, but I'm not sure a flashback would be the best way to do it. Especially with the Spacer background. If I recall correctly, that one is lacking in the Childhood Trauma department, and there wouldn't be a lot to explore.



Though I have to admit, the Akuze mission sounds fun, even if I don't think it would fit well with the game.

#18
UgnokOfOtherThings

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I agree fully on this.

#19
Crimmsonwind

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UgnokOfOtherThings wrote...

I agree fully on this.

Really? Your signature had me worried. :P