117 réponses à ce sujet

[Inquisitor Recon]

Must... resist urge... to say... "So is your mom!"



Like I said, it was a stupid plot twist and we just got to deal with it. Or substitute their version of reality with my own.

[Ryzaki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

So is overall Mass Effect depiction of technology, space combat, humanity vis a vis the galaxy, the near uniform depiction of aliens as bipeds with human emotions/proportions/cultural analogies, the premise of the Collector threat, and half the subplotsand delimmas.

True that.

Still I really wish Shep had just fallen in a coma. Cliched but I could've accepted it more.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 novembre 2010 - 08:17 .

[StarcloudSWG]

Medigel (remember that stuff? You use it all the time in ME universe) + a hell of a lot of luck + thin atmosphere + armor (to keep the body mostly in one place) + (offscreen and shown only in the comic) body being recovered and put into a "Stasis Pod".

[Annie_Dear]

It's just a game. Everything doesn't have to make perfect sense.

[General User]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

General User wrote...

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke

Gah, i don't like this quote. It just says that the chains of cause and effect are hard to see in advanced technologies... so friggin' what. They are still there. Even in the future nothing will pop out of thin air and damage done cannot be simply undone.

Agreed.  Of course, that assumes that a scientific view of the universe is accurate (or maybe total) to begin with... 


In fiction, you can more or less have anything the imagination can conceive, the science doesn’t have to be consistent with our current understanding of the universe, it can just advance the plot. 
 
To my way of thinking, what makes science fiction different is the logic and science should be internally consistent, that is it only has to agree with itself. 

Put another way, a fan of Mass Effect can reasonably ask: “since the codex says ‘X’ then why not ‘Y’?” But to say “this conflicts with contemporary science” is a bit unfair, or at least should be accompanied by lengthy expanation.
 
As I see it, Mass Effect is heavy on the fiction, light on the science.

Modifié par General User, 12 novembre 2010 - 08:25 .

[Archereon]

T_Stalker wrote...

Well, since Shepard was found floating around in space (confirmation needed, as I'm a bit confused about this part) it's safe to say he was frozen solid. Looking at this article : http://www.cracked.c...-part-4_p2.html (#2.The Ice Woman), it's safe to assume it's not too farfetched.
Couple that with future nano-tech and I say it's plausible enough.

*headdesk*

Space is not cold.  Nobody ever gets that right.  Even if you aren't being baked by the radiation from a star (which is more intense in space, and has more of an affect because you can only cool through radiation in space), it still takes a lot longer for things to cool off in space then you'd think.  And by the way, Shep wasn't found floating in space, he was found crashed into a planet.

Yep, that's right.  Shepard, against all odds, somehow reentered the atmoshpere intact.  Bioware's claims that "the Normandy wasn't moving fast" makes it all the more ludicrous.  Not moving fast in space is still several hundred kilometers per hour, and if you're "not moving fast" in space combat, you're DEAD. 

Realistically, Shepard should be teeny tiny particles of ash and ceramic shrapnel scattered all over the planet he crashed on, or just some random corpse floating through space (considering the possibility of him bouncing off the atmosphere)

[Killjoy Cutter]

General User wrote...

SimonTheFrog wrote...

General User wrote...

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke

Gah, i don't like this quote. It just says that the chains of cause and effect are hard to see in advanced technologies... so friggin' what. They are still there. Even in the future nothing will pop out of thin air and damage done cannot be simply undone.

Agreed.  Of course, that assumes that a scientific view of the universe is accurate (or at least total) to begin with... 

If it's not, what are we doing having this conversation on a medium which can only work if it is accurate?

[Xilizhra]

Accurate in-universe.

[hamtyl07]

i have two comments first as its been stated its fiction and pretty much anything is possible in fiction ans second take a look at the time period teh game takes place think of all the medical and scientifc advancements which have taken place so why is a ressurection to far fetched for some people. but thats just my 2 cents on this

[General User]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

If it's not, what are we doing having this conversation on a medium which can only work if it is accurate?

Indeed, to have a debate on the Indefinable is, of course, impossible.
 
Whether our universe is completely understandable via scientific means is very much an open question (one that will never be settled).
 
I contend that whether or not the Mass Effect Universe is completely understandable via science and reason is a settled issue: it isn’t.

[Phaedon]

General User wrote...
Agreed.  Of course, that assumes that a scientific view of the universe is accurate (or at least total) to begin with...  

Actually nothing in science is total, from gravity to -and especially- atoms. It's called the Uncertainty Principle I believe.
So, we all play experts here, claiming that science dismisses this or that, when it doesn't completely. If a fiction writer wants something to be possible, he can justify it to the principle I just mentioned.

A month ago, I wouldn't believe that mass effect fields could be justified with actual science but if you read the final pages of this thread, you can see some members coming up with 2 theories, both of which are compatible with canon. The first one focuses on the effects of neutronium 'changing the fabric of space and time', while the other one, which I personally prefer, dismisses the ability of the mass of an object to change directly, and uses the dark fluid theory (greater than dark energy and matter) to explain how eezo could create forces that appear to be changing the mass of an object.

Also, about the dead cells thing. Reproduction of cells in a lab, it has already been done.

[Praetor Knight]

the "resurrection" is within the realm of possibility, and what is done in the Lazarus Project is just on the outer edges of our current medical understanding.

With the only way I see Shep surviving would be if his brain survived the trauma, otherwise no way.

Also, consider that Alliance personnel get standard genetic modification. So with the gene mods and / or medigel providing vitrification (which will prevent ice from destroying his brain tissues) his memory and personality could then be recovered.

Stem cells, regardless of where they come from, can rebuild human tissues, so I assume that was what was used along with the "cybernetics" which really could be anything and thus magical.
I give one plausible theory on the whole thing in this post, but again as said before it only a game : http://social.biowar...9330/36#4980873

Edit: fixing line spacing...

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 12 novembre 2010 - 09:07 .

[Chuvvy]

Don't bother trying to understand it. Just like Asari physiology.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Your not going to bring a charred pile of bones back to life no matter how hard you try. The best you can do is create a zombie without the hunger for human flesh part.

[Sinapus]

The theme has popped up before in some other works of science fiction.



Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan novels was the first that came to mind, though that method involved freezing the recently deceased/mortally wounded and getting them to a medical facility to safely unfreeze/repair the damage. That doesn't appear to apply quite so well here, though I haven't looked too much into the details of how they recovered Shepard.

[SmokePants]

Lazarus is more likely than FTL travel, which violates the basic principle of causality. All you'd need is some super advanced micro MRI installed in the suit that records the state of the body prior to death. Then use super-advanced cell regeneration and cell replacement technology to restore to that state. Done and done. At least with that, you don't have to worry about the consequences of time travel (FTL). But if you did have FTL, you could go back and save Sheperd, making Lazarus a moot point.

Modifié par SmokePants, 12 novembre 2010 - 09:38 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Oh nonsense. Lazarus is far less likely than the Mass Effect loophole as there is no way in hell Shepard was wearing some sort of super-armor that would allow people to just regenerate by flipping a switch. You can't just replicate the brain, especially after it has been smashed into a planet at an extreme velocity.

[Sursion]

SmokePants wrote...

Lazarus is more likely than FTL travel.

FTL is very possible.

[MatronAdena]

I took i as this: granted Sheps brain was still alive, had any electrical charge, there is a chance to revive. The electrical field of the brain can in some cases take weeks to months to fully dissipate postmortem...again granted shep could have gone into a slow hibernation coma like state bringing on a " physical death" but not yet fully killing the brain.



so I take that known medical fact, and jazz it up with a little scifi creative license and just enjoy the damn story for what it is, a " space fantasy".

[Sursion]

Might I add, Wilson was working for the Shadow Broker. That means you have both the Shadow Brokers and Cerberus's resources, in a universe in which Reapers exist. I think of Shepards 'death' like a very big car crash. It's not like the body was vapourized or anything. Remember, shields absorb all damage when they break, so slamming into the planets surface... Not that big of a deal.



Also, Jacob is the only person in the game to say that Shepard died. We all know how useless Jacob is.

[Googlesaurus]

Archereon wrote...

Space is not cold.

Yes, it is. "Cold" is a subjective comparison.  

Archereon wrote...

Even if you aren't being baked by the radiation from a star (which is more intense in space, and has more of an affect because you can only cool through radiation in space), it still takes a lot longer for things to cool off in space then you'd think.

Only because there are less molecules in space for heat energy to transfer between. It's still "cold". Radiation doesn't require a specific medium to travel through.

[achwas]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

Medigel (remember that stuff? You use it all the time in ME universe) + a hell of a lot of luck + thin atmosphere + armor (to keep the body mostly in one place) + (offscreen and shown only in the comic) body being recovered and put into a "Stasis Pod".

Nevermind Shepard lost his N7 helmet while broaching athmosphere, so there wasn't even a complete protecting suit left... Legion wears a holed part of the chestpiece which was just lying around.... ....nevermind the vac-suit armour and body it contained should have burned to dust on a molecular level by the athmospheric friction upon re-entry (just ask the late space shuttle Atlantis about the temperatures generated on re-entering the upper atmosphere ) , torn to pieces by shearing forces and aeodynamic tumbling.... you really have to wonder what they would use to even start rebuilding from, some "identifiable" molecules they sifted from the ambient pollution ?

*shuts off higher brain functions*

Liara : "You were dead !"
Shepard : "I got better."

That sums up all that is needed for the game. Unfortunately^^

Modifié par achwas, 12 novembre 2010 - 10:27 .

[SimonTheFrog]

Sursion wrote...

Might I add, Wilson was working for the Shadow Broker. That means you have both the Shadow Brokers and Cerberus's resources, in a universe in which Reapers exist. I think of Shepards 'death' like a very big car crash. It's not like the body was vapourized or anything. Remember, shields absorb all damage when they break, so slamming into the planets surface... Not that big of a deal.

Also, Jacob is the only person in the game to say that Shepard died. We all know how useless Jacob is.

No, i don't think of it as a big car crash. First: Shepard had no air. We know this as a fact because that's in the video. We see the spasms of agony from the beginning  of the suffocation. He or she wouldn't wiggle just for fun in that situation. 
Then there is the pressure issue that makes your blood boil (edit: sorry, this is bs according to wiki.... but ebullism will occur anyway, no boiling, only dying due to other causes then) and makes any transportation of oxygen and sugar to the brain impossible. Then there is the cold issue, which doesn't kill you (because there is no contact with cold objects) but it doesn't help either. Then he or she starts to descent. We see the beginning of friction heat at the end of the video. So, the planet is still far a way so we must assume the heat will increase even more. Do you know what shooting stars are? Its small Shepards on their way down towards a planet. Only, they never reach the surface because they vaporize. I guess the planet has a less dense atmosphere. But as i said, we see the heat already. 
Still descending, we have a look at our watch. Even with high velocity (which we don't want because of the impact later on) it takes an awful long time to finally arrive at the surface (given we're not being a shooting star (btw when you recover the tags your see a lot of shooting stars, ironic, huh?!))  And all that time we wished we had brought some canned air. Our brain needs that to not decay into haggis. 
Oh and all the time the energy of the shields is holding up of course because the heat doesn't go away....
Then there's the impact... you see, a car has maybe what 60mph? What do you think Shepard has when he hits the ground? My guess is more! Yeah, the shields!!!! How can the shield help with rapid deceleration, though? How can they make the mass of Shepards body not want to go further? Didn't you know that Newton is the deadliest son of a ****? 
So, against all odds Shepard did not suffocate, did not get fried by radiation, did not boil internally because of depressurerizing, did not turn into a shooting star, did not turn into a massive smudge on the surface of the planet but was only "heavily injured"... car crash style. 
Even if the shadow broker was really kewl and smart and all... how the heck was he there to pick Shep up in time before Shep decayed? Did Shep lie there for... say... 10 minutes? 2 hours? You see, we still need a working brain!! So it seems he actually fell into a cryo-tank of Shadow-Broker agents which they just happened to put on the planet for unknown reasons... i think not.


Btw, when do we learn that Wilson worked for the Shadow Broker? I missed that somehow. I thought he just activated the Mechs to teach Miranda a lesson...

Modifié par SimonTheFrog, 12 novembre 2010 - 10:51 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

I think only God can do it in real life hence the name Lazarus the only man beyond Jesus to be brought back healthy from the dead. There is also the matter of cell regeneration blood, organ, and skin wise even though scientist are working to grow skin and ears on rats its going to be awhile before they get to full on organs, limbs, and flesh there are so many issues with trying to get a person back body wise it's medically impossible and then to get them back mentally? Nope sorry God owns this topic.

[Praetor Knight]

Shep was in free fall inside the gravity well of a planet with less gravitational force then Earth. So the velocity is going to be less to reach terminal velocity.

Also, his suit more likely failed on impact not reentry. His skeleton looked severely factured but skull intact in the beginning videos.

Also here are some links where you could read about free fall and surviving:
http://www.wikihow.c...ive-a-Long-Fall
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_fall
http://www.greenharb...er/carkeet.html

And as an Alliance Marine who's to say Shep's DNA and Tissue samples aren't stored in some Lab that Cerberus later pilfered once he was declared dead?

Otherwise if his skull fractured and had brain trauma and with anymore suit failure during reentry, The Ilusive Man would have had to resort to using someone else, because without the brain no Shep.