15 réponses à ce sujet

[Cazlee]

Now that DA:O is concluded, will we be able to play our warden ever again? Will we hear about our warden's future activities in DA2 while we play Hawke or is warden's chapter completely over?

Modifié par Cazlee, 12 novembre 2010 - 06:25 .

[David Gaider]

Regarding this topic, I'll say what I've said about it before.

I recognize that some people are emotionally attached to their Warden, and that's cool-- and complimentary-- and I'm not going to say "you shouldn't be so attached". That would be silly. I love that people are so attached to their characters. Means we did our jobs.

The Warden's story in DAO, however, was complete. Their story involved defeating the Archdemon and the Blight, and they did. Is their personal story finished? No, but aside from being dead whose personal story ever truly is? Some people need to recognize that there's a difference between plot threads and an unfinished story. We can pick up plot threads again, by all means, but it would necessitate starting a brand new story... or those plot threads can be picked up by others, in their story. Either approach is valid, and the idea that it must be the Warden who is playable in order to continue any of these threads simply because people can only imagine connecting with them with that one character, ever, or because they have personal relationships they'd like to see continue... well, it's a little short-sighted.

I get that there's some people who just want to continue, period, but I'd say there's also a case for letting good stories lie rather than dragging them somewhere they don't want to go.

Am I saying that this is what we're doing, leaving the Warden behind forever? Of course not. To be honest, I can never be entirely certain as to the exact approach we're going to take on a project until we're doing it. Plans change all the time. All I'm referring to is the people who insist it must be so, and that failing to continue their beloved PC as a PC somehow constitutes a failed promise or a botched storyline-- neither of which is true anywhere outside of your head, I'm afraid. Continuing the Warden as a PC is possible, if complicated (and it would obviously necessitate either being optional or making the US non-canonical), but it is not the only route for continuing the story of Dragon Age and Thedas-- as well as the various plot threads which remain from DAO.

Just sayin'.

[David Gaider]

Huntress wrote...
if the warden story ended killing the archdemon, Awakening was what?

...another story? One that ended with killing/sparing the Architect?

Is it seriously a hard concept to grasp?

We can keep bringing the Warden back for more, brand new stories if we want to. Absolutely. The idea that this is what we must do in order to deal with unresolved plot threads-- as if those were worthy of entire stories of their own-- is all I was addressing.

[David Gaider]

Brockololly wrote...
No, but if the DR Wardens that are tightly involved with Morrigan never personally see any consequences for their actions, when the DR seems as much the beginning of a plot/story at the end of Origins, then I'd say thats screwing up the entire notion of the "no canon" approach.

And I think you appear to have a very narrow idea of Morrigan's story that involves it only being a romantic tale, something seen through the lens of the Warden and no other way-- and doing it some other way would be "screwing it up".

Which is fine, if that's how you really want to look at it, but I hope you see it for what it is. Imagining the very worst way it could be done and complaining about how that would feel seems a bit strange to me, but there you go.

[David Gaider]

Dave of Canada wrote...
What "holes"? 

I think this is the internet definition of "plothole" which is equivalent to "I don't like it".

The potion does nothing but unlock powers in the taint, it doesn't "cure" you nor does Avernus research for a cure.

Evidently it does if you really, really wanted it to.

Just because you're not the Warden doesn't mean this choice won't show up later.

Indeed, this was part of my point on plot threads. Plot threads don't exist only in relation to the Warden-- and someone complaining that using those plot threads without the Warden involved as a PC drains them of all emotional relevance is forgetting that we're the ones who gave it that emotional relevance in the first place.

Trust us-- if we think a plot thread is worth picking up, we'll do it in a way that's worthwhile and not the worst-case-scenario someone conjures up to make using the Warden PC sound better. If we were to make Morrigan reappear for a different PC, for instance, we wouldn't have the PC stand there and ask awkward questions like "who are you?" and have them treat Morrigan like they had no idea what she was about-- or have the nature of her involvement in previous stories have absolutely no relevance to what's going on.

Seriously, give us some credit.

[David Gaider]

Nozybidaj wrote...
I seriously just got a flashback to "just trust us" before ME2's launch, lmao..... 

Sorry David, I'll give you a lot or props for things you do, especially your totally voluntary interaction with the community, but I think I'll take a 'wait and see' approach this time around. 

At this point I haven't really seen any reason I should be interested much in Hawke and if we never get the Warden back and wrap up any of those old loose threads, well its certainly your choice.

I'm not saying "just trust us". I'm saying "give us some credit for being able to write something which you've already expressed enjoyment for". If someone really wants to threaten to take their ball and go home because they don't think anything could be as good as what came before... congratulations? I have no idea what you would consider a good story, and the chances that everyone would enjoy any story equally are pretty remote, but don't act like we don't know how to write one if you've already come away from at least one of our stories feeling like you do.

[David Gaider]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...
Even though your the head writer and creator, I have to disagree with you from a fan viewpoint.  Most of my player characters are female and doing the DR has no romantic involvement with Morrigan - except as her friend.   I'm still connected to her story line having Alistair/Loghain do the DR on my behalf.  I would feel cheated if my warden wasn't a part of the future and whatever is coming down the pike involving that storyline.  I think this is all fans are really saying, they want their warden to see the conclusion of that plot thread to it's conclusion with the original character that started the storyline with her.  I hope you and BioWare just consider those of us who did the DR would like our wardens to be a part of that.

Sure, I get that "from a fan viewpoint" it's hard to see past the one character which you're emotionally connected to. I'd hope that you see, however, everyone essentially asking for different things-- if we did give them what they're asking for, I suspect that for most people that wouldn't actually be what they wanted. They don't really want a brand new story with the Warden and the requisite "re-booting" that would come along with that (both from a gameplay and story perspective)... they want their personal narrative to continue on, their relationships to continue, and every hanging plot thread to be neatly tied up so they're not left wondering what something might have led to down the road.

Walking off into the sunset doesn't do those things, no, but I'd also suggest that not walking off into the sunset might be much worse "from a fan viewpoint"... so be careful what you ask for, because you just might get it.

[David Gaider]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
To keep the ranting short, if it's not clear that you can bring the Warden back, it would have been better to be subtle (Awakening epilogue) and less ambitious about choices (Witch Hunt).

Maybe.

A story "not being finished" is, however, not the same as a story "being continued only with the Warden as a PC". I get that some people might really want that, and not be able to wrap their heads around how it could be otherwise, but that doesn't make it the only possibility-- or the only desireable outcome, neither for you as the fan nor for us as the creators.

If we leave our bases open sometimes, it's often because we don't like to write ourselves in a corner and have something absolute that makes it much more awkward to pick up if we need to-- not that we don't get some of that anyhow, even so. But if someone's assertation is that "the Warden's story isn't finished" then I simply have to disagree. The Warden's story was the story of DAO: the Blight and the fight against the Archdemon. It's done. As I said before, if the Warden was to feature again in the future it would require a new story-- and a side plot does not that story make, despite how much some people seem to magnify its personal importance in their heads.

The Morrigan side plot applies here in particular-- some people seem to think that's "the Warden's story" simply because their PC intersected with it (possibly-- though only possibly-- in a very significant way). But that's not the Warden's story. That's Morrigan's story. While the Warden may feature a prominent (or even starring) role in it, that's not the same as it being about the Warden... if you can remove a character from the story and it survives intact, then I think that pretty much proves the point.

Again, does that mean we're done with the Warden ever appearing again? Possibly... or maybe not. I promise nothing, and we have our own plans for how the overall story arc is going to resolve itself. My only comment is directed towards some of the anguished hand-wringing or the people asserting that there's only one possible way for this to go and anything else is some kind of broken promise (one that was neither made nor implied). I'm simply saying there's a big difference between where someone might say they want the story to head, what they would actually be happy with and where it would be wise to go.

No doubt this is no different than any story or series that has fans who express a personal need for a story to provide them something specific, and then being unhappy if it doesn't roll that way-- but some perspective would be nice. Unrealistic for me to expect, probably, but so be it.

Modifié par David Gaider, 22 novembre 2010 - 04:09 .

[David Gaider]

PureMethodActor wrote...
David, don't listen to anyone who tells you what to do, like Legbiter is. We Warden supporters at least haven't done that. We know its your team's game and you can do what you want. We've only been giving explanations for why we feel its right or wise to continue the Warden's story when Morrigan returns.

Oh, I get why it could be potentially compelling if the Warden was the PC if and when Morrigan's story reappeared... perhaps more compelling then her story not being told through a Warden PC, it's really hard for anyone to judge that without knowing the context of her reappearance. For all the other stuff that would have to happen in order to get that one scenario, however, I'm not convinced as to just how right or wise it would be... and I suspect those who are advocating it aren't thinking much beyond that one scenario as to the larger context it would have to take place in. There isn't much of a notion, it seems, as to just what the Warden PC would be doing otherwise, and while some people at least make a vague gesture towards admitting "it would be difficult to continue the Warden as a PC" they usually then proceed to ignore that admission.

Is that bad? No, I get that too-- it's an emotional connection that not everyone wants to abandon just yet. Some people want stories to keep going no matter what, regardless of whether we wish to keep telling it or whether there's a rational thread for that story to hinge on beyond whatever element they're missing.

All I'm going to say is I doubt we'd simply disregard the choices the Warden made, especially with regards to how it affected Morrigan's story. And we haven't ruled out anything. If I seem over-cautious it's only in the interest of not letting people's expectations run out of control... or in answer to those who suggest there's some kind of promise to keep the Warden going as a PC, or that a sequel couldn't possibly exist without it (which is just plain wrong). You're free to want what you want and request it, by all means. As to what the future holds, we shall see.

Modifié par David Gaider, 23 novembre 2010 - 01:35 .

[David Gaider]

Wulfram wrote...
If you're concluding the DR story, then you're screwing the US players anyway, since their choice is being made non-canon.

If there's no Warden and the OGB is either non existant, or necessarily tangential to the plot, then what's the point of bringing Morrigan back? What's so compelling that it justifies screwing up those wardens who actually care what happens with Morrigan?

That really depends on why Morrigan returns, doesn't it? The assumption that the nature of her return would have to "screw" anyone is simply panic talk-- as is the idea that we'd have to ignore player decisions in order to accomplish it.... no less so than the idea that the only reason to have her return would be to offer something to players who had a relationship with Morrigan/did the DR/went through the mirror with her in WH.

Not so. Though the more I talk about this, the less I want to accomodate anyone. Christ almighty.

[David Gaider]

Blastback wrote...
Yes, let's give the writers some credit. They may not be able to 100% please everyone, but I think that if and when they decide to deal with Morrigan, they will be able to make the majority of us happy with how they do it.

At the end of the day, I'll be pleased enough if I make me happy.

Whether someone has received enough validation to make them not want to go onto the internet and wax poetic about how we don't respect our own story, their story, the story of the entire world, etc etc... frankly, that's of secondary importance. Sorry.

Modifié par David Gaider, 23 novembre 2010 - 08:54 .

[David Gaider]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Stoomkal wrote...

I do not know a single writer or member of the literary industry who thinks that the story of the Warden has any kind of "satisfactory conclusion".

David Gaider?

Me, I just find the image of a "literary industry" out there full of men in smoking jackets debating over whether or not Dragon Age had a satisfactory conclusion to be incredibly amusing.

[David Gaider]

Stoomkal wrote...
That alone should tell you everything about the construction of your narrative and how complete it is.

If you say so. Far be it for me to argue with the literary minds of our generation.

[David Gaider]

Stoomkal wrote...
I am talking about the "READERS" of your books, David.

We weren't talking about my books. A video game is not a book, and the writing is just one part of what goes into it.

It was a rather measured response to what is deemed troubling to a large sector of your audience.

The moment I think you actually speak for a large sector of our audience, I'll be glad to give you credit for it. As it is, perhaps you'd be better off simply speaking for yourself rather than indulging in a bit of ipse dixit. If you don't think DAO had a satisfactory enough ending to suit you, that's fine. I don't, however, particularly care what you do for a living, what your friends do for a living or how "measured" you think your argument is. It's an opinion, and while you're entitled to it it's certainly not shared by everyone even here-- never mind by "all" our fans.

Modifié par David Gaider, 24 novembre 2010 - 02:37 .

[Stanley Woo]

Please don't spam our forums with images intended to belittle or insult other community members, and let's try to get back on topic. Thank you.

[David Gaider]

chiliztri wrote...
Whether the ending was any good is up for debate, and far be it from me to stop others from voicing their opinions on the matter.

Indeed.

All I was addressing was the idea of the story being about Morrigan and the need for the Warden as a PC being the only way it was possible for that story to continue. I get people wanting more, and I get people having an emotional connection. If someone wants to say they found their particular ending unsatisfactory, well okay-- fair enough. That wasn't the argument in particular, but if someone feels the need to point that out they're free to do so.

Nobody knows how we're continuing that story except for the fact that DA2 is not about the Warden at all. It's about Hawke. It's a new hero and a continuation of the story we wish to tell from another hero's perspective. Grandiose critiques of our storytelling ability aside, we'll continue the tale as we feel it's best to do so.

And I'll leave it at that. Please play nicely.