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[In Exile]

Kroaks wrote...
But where did it imply that his magic was limited only to mages? 

Well, a mage is required to do it, so you'd need to find a willing blood mage, first of all.

Yes it takes a blood mage to do the spell/whatever or at least it took a blood mage to learn how to do it but far as I know it wasn't implied that it could only be affective on Avernus and/or Bloodmages. 

We have in-game evidence it can affect anyone - the deal with the elves proves it.

We just know he found out something that could be used to expand the warden's life spans and could use blood magic to do so.

So who are you going to find to use blood magic or demonology willingly?

[Blastback]

galian77 wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Bioware has indicated numerous times that Dragon Age is the story of Thedas, rather than any one charater. Which is a cool artistic direction to go in. I don't begrudge them that desicion. But at the same time, the world is not what drew me in. It wasn't the events of the game, the Origins, any of that. It was the characters. Same with the Mass Effect games. The biggest reason that I came back for ME2 was to see Shepard, Tali, Garrus, Anderson and company again. I wanted to see them develop, their relationships evolve. And I am sad that I won't have that chance with Dragon Age.

Ahh, same, I grew so attached to both my Grey Wardens when I played them and would have loved to see old companions again and watch their friendships/relationships continue. I remember Baldur's Gate did something similar. Some of your companions in BG1 were your companions again in BG2, and romances continued on into Throne of Bhaal. One of the many reasons I enjoyed Baldur's Gate so much.

But Origins did wrap up their stories pretty nicely, though, for the most part. For now I'm just content with the thought that my human noble is happily ruling Ferelden with her love, Alistair as his queen, and my elf mage is traveling and adventuring with Zevran. In both instances Morrigan is off in Mirror world with her old god baby, but such is the price you pay for a happy ending in this game, right? I'm happy enough to leave my Wardens' stories as it is for now, and look forward to moving on.

My main question about the Warden is, what happens in the case that the male goes in the mirror with Morrigan?  Or how about some of the epilogues where s/he disapears?

As for companions, something that is worrying me is the trend of allowing them to be killed off.  It makes having them have any sort of major role in a sequal rather unlikely. 

Maybe if Bioware didn't do such a good job making me care about the charaters so much...

[Kroaks]

In Exile wrote...

Kroaks wrote...
But where did it imply that his magic was limited only to mages? 

Well, a mage is required to do it, so you'd need to find a willing blood mage, first of all.

Yes it takes a blood mage to do the spell/whatever or at least it took a blood mage to learn how to do it but far as I know it wasn't implied that it could only be affective on Avernus and/or Bloodmages. 

We have in-game evidence it can affect anyone - the deal with the elves proves it.

We just know he found out something that could be used to expand the warden's life spans and could use blood magic to do so.

So who are you going to find to use blood magic or demonology willingly?

A mage may have to do it; so I suspect just about any of the Grey Warden Mage's that wants to live past thirty would be willing to do it on themselves and their friends at a minimum.

Any apostate mage out there probably wouldn't have issues with it for the right price.

Seems to be a pretty decent amount of mages in general that don't mind messing around with blood magic, Uldred and his people; jowan, the slaver, that crazy guy in the dalish woods was a blood mage wasn't he and if I'm not mistaken isn't the Tevinter Imperium practically based on blood magic?  Thats a whole country of mages willing to do that; well not a whole country but a whole country's worth of their population of mages I should say.

Didn't Duncan himself say Warden's used blood magic if they had too?

Basically if they really wanted too and with their resources/connections I honestly wouldn't see the Warden's having that hard of a time finding at least "one" person who was willing to do the magic needed to do an "Avernus".

[Thalorin1919]

Never said my opinion was fact anywhere, I just very strongly believe my opinion is right, and this is a bad thing?



I can understand the arguments of the opposite end, and I respect them. I just really really don't think the Warden will be returning in the significant way we want him too, or if we see the Warden at all.



The irony of you calling me a 'royal jackass' for stating my opinion, when you're speaking in a tone as though mine is wrong and yours is right is just ridiclous. Had you posted something in a similar format I did, stating your opinion and all, I wouldn't have gone that far pal. Lay off.

[Kroaks]

PureMethodActor wrote...

Kroaks wrote...

PureMethodActor wrote...

@Sable Rhapsody- I wasn't just referring to the Wardens of Weisshaupt. Indeed, my earlier description of the Grey Wardens as being like the Jedi Order is accurate. And before anyone says anything else, no, of course the Grey Wardens don't have extra powers after becoming Grey Wardens.

Again I'm referring to the role the Jedi serve in the galaxy. They travel all over, solving disputes, negotiations, and fighting when necessary. The Grey Wardens do much of this, too... all over Thedas (as least the nations which allow them in, that is).

Well; they do have the ability to sense Darkspawn and see the archdemon in their dreams and their is some level of stat bonus isn't there?  But no; definately nothing like the Jedi with their telekinesis; future seeing and whatnot.

One of the things mentioned is that the warden most likely has a short life but with the option of drinking the wyvern's blood, taking Avernus's concoction and having his research there even if you do kill him than aside from either having been violently killed in conflict or ending their lives themselves (getting poisoned etc...) shouldn't it be almost a given that your warden and now possibly every other warden's life span has been expanded by however long Avernus himself lived?

What was it 200-400 years he managed to get without going violently insane?

As for whether or not the warden is specifically needed or if it would be a story any generic adventurer could fulfill; aside from your intial starting point/race/social status in the game and some characters therein once Duncan takes you to meet Cailan couldn't you say the same about most of DAO itself?

As for whether or not my personal warden's story continues hinges on two things:

1.)  Whether or not they feel like making further games that allow the continued expansion and exploration of the character

and

2.)  Exactly what going into the mirror with morrigan means until I know for sure what is on the other side; I can't say for sure whether or not his story continues.

Oh, I know Grey Wardens have the power to sense darkspawn. I omitted it to play devil's advocate to an extent, and because many people argue against sensing darkspawn as a valid power for my comparison. Otherwise I would have included it :happy:

I also didn't include Avernus's concoction because the Warden has a choice whether to drink it and get powers or not.

Besides that... which side are you on? Pro-yes warden or pro-no warden?

I guess the side I would best fit on would be Pro-Yes Warden, while I can certainly look forward to games without the Warden like the one coming up with Hawke in it I would definately be happy if I got a chance to play my warden again in future installments.

[ace100000]

hey i know its too early to speculate but what about a clash between "The Warden" and "The Champion Hawke" in DA 3 . i mean if i recall correctly varric does mention that the world is at the brink of war and the chantry is falling and all that ****. it would be fitting finale wont it?.

[DAO - Grey Warden]

i know this is not related to this topic...so i apologize, but have just one question.....what does dragon age collectors edition include? i noticed its a lot bigger than a regular dragon age! thanks.

[Oshunsar]

http://en.wikipedia....Retail_editions

[DAO - Grey Warden]

thanks

[David Gaider]

Regarding this topic, I'll say what I've said about it before.

I recognize that some people are emotionally attached to their Warden, and that's cool-- and complimentary-- and I'm not going to say "you shouldn't be so attached". That would be silly. I love that people are so attached to their characters. Means we did our jobs.

The Warden's story in DAO, however, was complete. Their story involved defeating the Archdemon and the Blight, and they did. Is their personal story finished? No, but aside from being dead whose personal story ever truly is? Some people need to recognize that there's a difference between plot threads and an unfinished story. We can pick up plot threads again, by all means, but it would necessitate starting a brand new story... or those plot threads can be picked up by others, in their story. Either approach is valid, and the idea that it must be the Warden who is playable in order to continue any of these threads simply because people can only imagine connecting with them with that one character, ever, or because they have personal relationships they'd like to see continue... well, it's a little short-sighted.

I get that there's some people who just want to continue, period, but I'd say there's also a case for letting good stories lie rather than dragging them somewhere they don't want to go.

Am I saying that this is what we're doing, leaving the Warden behind forever? Of course not. To be honest, I can never be entirely certain as to the exact approach we're going to take on a project until we're doing it. Plans change all the time. All I'm referring to is the people who insist it must be so, and that failing to continue their beloved PC as a PC somehow constitutes a failed promise or a botched storyline-- neither of which is true anywhere outside of your head, I'm afraid. Continuing the Warden as a PC is possible, if complicated (and it would obviously necessitate either being optional or making the US non-canonical), but it is not the only route for continuing the story of Dragon Age and Thedas-- as well as the various plot threads which remain from DAO.

Just sayin'.

[Fiery Phoenix]

David Gaider wrote...
*snip*

And they blame me for saying you are the bestest...

[Dave of Canada]

David Gaider wrote...

Continuing the Warden as a PC is possible, if complicated (and it would obviously necessitate either being optional or making the US non-canonical)

I don't see that going over too well.

[Wulfram]

Will we get some idea as to what the Warden might have been getting up to in the years of DA2?

[AlanC9]

David Gaider wrote...
Continuing the Warden as a PC is possible, if complicated (and it would obviously necessitate either being optional or making the US non-canonical),

Nothing wrong with non-canonical there. The biggest problem with KotOR2 -- not Bio's fault, I know -- was that they tried to shoehorn the radically different LS and DS endings into the same world state at the beginning of the game, which had the result of cheapening both endings, especially the DS.

[Itkovian]

David Gaider wrote...
The Warden's story in DAO, however, was complete. Their story involved defeating the Archdemon and the Blight, and they did. Is their personal story finished? No, but aside from being dead whose personal story ever truly is? Some people need to recognize that there's a difference between plot threads and an unfinished story. We can pick up plot threads again, by all means, but it would necessitate starting a brand new story

This is essentially what I was trying to say, when writing about the Warden's narrative journey.

As for the rest, thank you for clarifying the issue. Regardless on which side of an argument it falls on, its good to have some official word.

Itkovian

Modifié par Itkovian, 18 novembre 2010 - 04:31 .

[Huntress]

"The Warden's story in DAO, however, was complete. Their story involved defeating the Archdemon and the Blight, and they did. Is their personal story finished? No, but aside from being dead whose personal story ever truly is? Some people need to recognize that there's a difference between plot threads and an unfinished story. We can pick up plot threads again, by all means, but it would necessitate starting a brand new story... or those plot threads can be picked up by others, in their story. Either approach is valid, and the idea that it must be the Warden who is playable in order to continue any of these threads simply because people can only imagine connecting with them with that one character, ever, or because they have personal relationships they'd like to see continue... well, it's a little short-sighted. "

Then I hope they mention nothing about smart dark spawn in DA2.. it wont make any sense do now? OR golem of marak (sp) or Witch hunt?
if the warden story ended killing the archdemon, Awakening was what?
Where is my book?? oh here: Wizard's first rules... gonna read that again.

Modifié par Huntress, 18 novembre 2010 - 05:11 .

[David Gaider]

Huntress wrote...
if the warden story ended killing the archdemon, Awakening was what?

...another story? One that ended with killing/sparing the Architect?

Is it seriously a hard concept to grasp?

We can keep bringing the Warden back for more, brand new stories if we want to. Absolutely. The idea that this is what we must do in order to deal with unresolved plot threads-- as if those were worthy of entire stories of their own-- is all I was addressing.

[NamiraWilhelm]

Lol. Awesome dev sarcasm.



Its just a case of getting used to the idea. You loved origins, you naturally want more. You'll soon embrace what is DA2 and look forward to it.

[Wulfram]

Well, I struggle to see a continuation to Morrigan's plotline - which has been suggested is likely - without the Warden which wouldn't totally suck for some people.

[Brockololly]

David Gaider wrote...

... and the idea that it must be the Warden who is playable in order to continue any of these threads simply because people can only imagine connecting with them with that one character, ever, or because they have personal relationships they'd like to see continue... well, it's a little short-sighted.

All I'm saying is that with respect to Morrigan and the Warden, with the end of Origins, Awakening and even more so in Witch Hunt, perpetuated the notion that the Warden is (potentially) closely involved with whatever Morrigan/Flemeth is up to. And you guys have not been shy in saying how Morrigan's story isn't over.

So if you're going the whole "no canon" approach, and my Warden does the DR, and goes off into the Eluvian to "face the future together" with Morrigan all the while hinting at more big huge "change" involving Morrigan and the Old God Baby, I don't think its myopic at all to think that the most "emotionally engaging" or satisfying way to continue that storyline would be as the Warden PC.

Obviously it would be different for different Wardens, but isn't that the point in the "no canon" approach? That you can get to the point where you have diverging storylines? Such that the Warden that gut stabbed Morrigan should have to deal with those consequences later on, or that the Warden that is still alive and well in Mirror World with Morrigan should be right along with her and the OGB when the "change" comes around? 

Thats my sticking point- I have no problem with the Warden going to some far corner of Thedas or something, but the problem as I see it is that, especially with how the Warden is involved with Morrigan, if you simply bring back Morrigan while giving the Warden some Viconia style epilogue text write off, that would really ruin things retroactively for me. As I see it, with Morrigan, she is a different character depending on how your Warden has interacted with her thus far, and to simply bring her back without the Warden being the one interacting with her would be completely missing the point for a large reason as to why people might want to see Morrigan return. 

David Gaider wrote...
Continuing the Warden as a PC is possible, if complicated (and it would obviously necessitate either being optional or making the US non-canonical), but it is not the only route for continuing the story of Dragon Age and Thedas-- as well as the various plot threads which remain from DAO.
 

No, but if the DR Wardens that are tightly involved with Morrigan never personally see any consequences for their actions, when the DR seems as much the beginning of a plot/story at the end of Origins, then I'd say thats screwing up the entire notion of the "no canon" approach. If the DR Warden amounts to little more than a codex entry or cameo then they;re effectively sharing the same fate as the US Wardens, which flies in the face of the "no canon" approach of having your choices and consequences matter. Having some random new EPIC Hero PC of Thedas deal with Morrigan whenever her story hits its climax, as opposed to the Warden thats been tightly involved with her thus far would be terribly myopic, I'd say. It would be like having Luke Skywalker stuck on some backwater planet and having some random new  Hero Jawa take on Darth Vader in Return of the Jedi- you'd be sucking any and all of BioWare's precious "emotional engagement" out of the thing.

But thats for DA3 and beyond I guess. For me, and a good many others, if the DR Warden just gets the Viconia treatment or further treated as if they effectively did the US by not showing up ever again, I'd say thats a failure in the whole "no canon" approach.

I'll put my trust in you writer folk that you won't screw over the Warden and Morrigan and Old God Baby though.

Modifié par Brockololly, 18 novembre 2010 - 05:31 .

[Huntress]

Didn't you just said the wardens story ended by killing the archdemon?

I probably won't embrace DA2 if is gonna have as many holes as Da:o

"Warden die after 30 years or so", Mine won't DIE I took arvanus potion and let Arvenus find a way to cure the rest of the warden.. or that means nothing? My warden won't live for 200-400 years if she took the potion but, won't die in 30 years neither she will turn / become a ghoul.

I do not mind new stories, just wanted to know what was really gonna happen with smart dark spawn.. But I suppose the rest of the smart dark spawn killed themself.. US way hahaha!



To the US players, I bow to you, at least you saw an end.