724 réponses à ce sujet

[Koffeegirl]

Addai67 wrote...

Registering an apathy vote. I like my Wardens, but I don't need to see them in a new game, especially if it can't be implemented well. It would be fun to hear gossip about them, though. The more twisted and nonsensical the better.

Yes, I support gossip of the Warden in future Dragon Age titles. The more funny and ridiculous the better.

[NamiraWilhelm]

Hmmm. They had a set race and background, and family.

But demeanour, relationship to each person, looks, sex, sexual orientation, skills... all us

[Ziggeh]

Faust1979 wrote...

But the Warden wasn't a blank slate, The Warden has 6 different origin stories each with a background that tell who they are, where they came from so he/she isn't a blank slate at all. You get to choose they're dialogue, whether they are good or evil or somwhere in between but who they're families are, what the lifestyle they do is already all pre chosen. So not a blank slate at all

It's an expression, I mention the Matrix becomes it's something that people often say about the role of the protaganist, one that prior to the sequels I would have said was on purpose, but after, like the entirety of Star Wars, was probably an accident.

[Maria Caliban]

Yes, the Warden's story is over. If another Blight pops up, we'll call her back.

[Kroaks]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Huntress wrote...

Didn't you just said the wardens story ended by killing the archdemon?
I probably won't embrace DA2 if is gonna have as many holes as Da:o

What "holes"? 

"Warden die after 30 years or so", Mine won't DIE I took arvanus potion and let Arvenus find a way to cure the rest of the warden.. or that means nothing? My warden won't live for 200-400 years if she took the potion but, won't die in 30 years neither she will turn / become a ghoul.

The potion does nothing but unlock powers in the taint, it doesn't "cure" you nor does Avernus research for a cure.

I do not mind new stories, just wanted to know what was really gonna happen with smart dark spawn.. But I suppose the rest of the smart dark spawn killed themself.. US way hahaha!

Just because you're not the Warden doesn't mean this choice won't show up later.

Well; we don't know the sum total of what the concotion does to be honest, maybe all it does is boost your abilities maybe it is the "cure" that Avernus came up with that allowed him to live a few centuries.

As for his research not curing it; we know it worked on Avernus himself, we know the concotion works on you that was also made by his research, we know blood magic can permamently amp your stats as done by the Tevinter Slaver.

With everything we do know, there's no reason to assume that what Avernus has already done wouldn't affect most of the wardens in the same way as it did him(Avernus).

[Herr Uhl]

Kroaks wrote...

Well; we don't know the sum total of what the concotion does to be honest, maybe all it does is boost your abilities maybe it is the "cure" that Avernus came up with that allowed him to live a few centuries.

As for his research not curing it; we know it worked on Avernus himself, we know the concotion works on you that was also made by his research, we know blood magic can permamently amp your stats as done by the Tevinter Slaver.

With everything we do know, there's no reason to assume that what Avernus has already done wouldn't affect most of the wardens in the same way as it did him(Avernus).

No, his way involved pacts with demons, not the taint magic-mojo you get.

[Bryy_Miller]

Huntress wrote...

MAD WHITE HAM wrote...

I just want my warden to be apart of Hawk's story in a small supporting role... whatever that may be... we can only speculate. This even covers the US decision because the warden's small role could be removed/replaced if he was dead. I will be disappointed if my warden is not in DA2 and Morrigan is because my warden went with Morrigan through the portal.

The warden/morrigan are not in DA2, thats hawke story, the Warden will be mention on it tho, Thats Not bad isn't?

Maybe we can buy a book* ( hint*) that will continue the warden story, including the mirror!

Just because something is not resolved NOW does not mean that it will not be resolved later. That's not a plot hole. That's just how the story is structured.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 19 novembre 2010 - 12:21 .

[Mikka-chan]

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

Well...if this game turns out good, we will all be asking by DA3 is my "Hawke's" story over? It's just life.

I'm sort of tempted to download this thread to harddrive just in case there's a massive forum explosion so that when DA3 comes along with a totally new character and everyone's like 'BRING HAWKE BACK :E', it'll be here to point to.  I like being able to say 'I told you so' sometimes.

For me, although I'm sure that Bioware and gang can write an excellent story I would very much enjoy for my Wardens, I'd almost rather they didn't.  The things I took from the epilogue and get

I like the idea of my Warden stomping over to Antiva to give Zev a what for, or her returning to Orz as Harrowmont's heir with her beloved Gorim, or him disappearing with Morrigan in a mirror... and even the ones where they end up six feet under with other people going "Yeah, that Warden, they were good folk."  I can come up with enough awesome from that Bioware choosing a new character to start some awesome for is good by me.  I trust that if we run in to Morrigan or Alistair or Zev or Li or who the heck ever, they'll manage to make those characters as awesome as always and their interaction with Hawke a 'woah' that leaves me stunned.  Bioware's pretty good at that story telling thing, ya know.

(Besides, maybe this time there'll be a chance of romancing Nat! ...Okay, I know, unlikely, but maybe I can flirt a bit.  Hmph.)

[Kroaks]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Kroaks wrote...

Well; we don't know the sum total of what the concotion does to be honest, maybe all it does is boost your abilities maybe it is the "cure" that Avernus came up with that allowed him to live a few centuries.

As for his research not curing it; we know it worked on Avernus himself, we know the concotion works on you that was also made by his research, we know blood magic can permamently amp your stats as done by the Tevinter Slaver.

With everything we do know, there's no reason to assume that what Avernus has already done wouldn't affect most of the wardens in the same way as it did him(Avernus).

No, his way involved pacts with demons, not the taint magic-mojo you get.

Not really; his research didn't seem to start until "after" he got trapped in the tower away from the demons with the other wardens stuck in there with him.

And it is supposed to be dealing with a further learning of the taint; is even mentioned in the conversation as being blood magic aside from that their seems to be some kind of reaction to electricity.

And even if it did involve demons, in DAO, demonology is weirdly enough a lesser evil than bloodmagic.

[TuringPoint]

David Gaider wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
What "holes"? 

I think this is the internet definition of "plothole" which is equivalent to "I don't like it".

LOL.  *applauds*

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

David Gaider wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
No, but if the DR Wardens that are tightly involved with Morrigan never personally see any consequences for their actions, when the DR seems as much the beginning of a plot/story at the end of Origins, then I'd say thats screwing up the entire notion of the "no canon" approach.

And I think you appear to have a very narrow idea of Morrigan's story that involves it only being a romantic tale, something seen through the lens of the Warden and no other way-- and doing it some other way would be "screwing it up".

Which is fine, if that's how you really want to look at it, but I hope you see it for what it is. Imagining the very worst way it could be done and complaining about how that would feel seems a bit strange to me, but there you go.

Even though your the head writer and creator, I have to disagree with you from a fan viewpoint.  Most of my player characters are female and doing the DR has no romantic involvement with Morrigan - except as her friend.   I'm still connected to her story line having Alistair/Loghain do the DR on my behalf.  I would feel cheated if my warden wasn't a part of the future and whatever is coming down the pike involving that storyline.  I think this is all fans are really saying, they want their warden to see the conclusion of that plot thread to it's conclusion with the original character that started the storyline with her.  I hope you and BioWare just consider those of us who did the DR would like our wardens to be a part of that. 


Wow, I can't believe this thread took off the way it did.

[ace100000]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
No, but if the DR Wardens that are tightly involved with Morrigan never personally see any consequences for their actions, when the DR seems as much the beginning of a plot/story at the end of Origins, then I'd say thats screwing up the entire notion of the "no canon" approach.

And I think you appear to have a very narrow idea of Morrigan's story that involves it only being a romantic tale, something seen through the lens of the Warden and no other way-- and doing it some other way would be "screwing it up".

Which is fine, if that's how you really want to look at it, but I hope you see it for what it is. Imagining the very worst way it could be done and complaining about how that would feel seems a bit strange to me, but there you go.

Even though your the head writer and creator, I have to disagree with you from a fan viewpoint.  Most of my player characters are female and doing the DR has no romantic involvement with Morrigan - except as her friend.   I'm still connected to her story line having Alistair/Loghain do the DR on my behalf.  I would feel cheated if my warden wasn't a part of the future and whatever is coming down the pike involving that storyline.  I think this is all fans are really saying, they want their warden to see the conclusion of that plot thread to it's conclusion with the original character that started the storyline with her.  I hope you and BioWare just consider those of us who did the DR would like our wardens to be a part of that. 


Wow, I can't believe this thread took off the way it did.

Well this really means that a lot of people want the warden's story to continue i guess 

[David Gaider]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...
Even though your the head writer and creator, I have to disagree with you from a fan viewpoint.  Most of my player characters are female and doing the DR has no romantic involvement with Morrigan - except as her friend.   I'm still connected to her story line having Alistair/Loghain do the DR on my behalf.  I would feel cheated if my warden wasn't a part of the future and whatever is coming down the pike involving that storyline.  I think this is all fans are really saying, they want their warden to see the conclusion of that plot thread to it's conclusion with the original character that started the storyline with her.  I hope you and BioWare just consider those of us who did the DR would like our wardens to be a part of that.

Sure, I get that "from a fan viewpoint" it's hard to see past the one character which you're emotionally connected to. I'd hope that you see, however, everyone essentially asking for different things-- if we did give them what they're asking for, I suspect that for most people that wouldn't actually be what they wanted. They don't really want a brand new story with the Warden and the requisite "re-booting" that would come along with that (both from a gameplay and story perspective)... they want their personal narrative to continue on, their relationships to continue, and every hanging plot thread to be neatly tied up so they're not left wondering what something might have led to down the road.

Walking off into the sunset doesn't do those things, no, but I'd also suggest that not walking off into the sunset might be much worse "from a fan viewpoint"... so be careful what you ask for, because you just might get it.

[Leonia]

They're going to kill of our Wardens, see what you've done!

Actually, this topic reminds me of a blog entry I keep meaning to write. I might just.. go do that now.

[errant_knight]

Yes. I want to know why my warden (or warden and Alistair) disappeared--and from sharing the experience, not being told about it. I want more adventures with them, and ideally, I'd like to find a way to keep them from dying of the taint. But I get that it may be difficult to do given all the possible endings in Origins. Still, it would be nice.

Worst case scenario, they get killed off to make us shut up.

Really, an expansion that had nothing to do with the larger, over-arching plot would have been fine for me, and would have been enough.

Modifié par errant_knight, 22 novembre 2010 - 03:48 .

[Lord_Valandil]

*Sigh*

I'd really want to continue playing with my Warden :'(

Here's one hoping for a DLC or something like that. But my hopes are now fixed in an elven main character for a possible DA3.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I understand from a practical perspective, bringing back the Warden is very difficult. But then I am left wondering why all the not so subtle hints at a continuation in the Awakening epilogue.

What's the point of forcing the Warden to disapear for no reason and say no one doubted their story was over, if you are not even sure you can bring them back? That slide was useless and could have easily been replaced by something subtle, not necessarily promising anything, which that slide virtually did.

Also, the ending at Witch Hunt did NOT provide any closure at all, it raised more questions than it answered. Again, if you are not sure that the Warden can come back, why give him the choice to follow Morrigan through the mirror? What's the point? If there is a Morrigan centric game in the future and the Warden who followed her does not show up, then that choice was pointless.
I was perfectly willing to see Morrigan leaving forever as a good bittersweet ending. Following her through the mirror however is not closure.

To keep the ranting short, if it's not clear that you can bring the Warden back, it would have been better to be subtle (Awakening epilogue) and less ambitious about choices (Witch Hunt).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 novembre 2010 - 03:51 .

[Lord_Valandil]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I understand from a practical perspective, bringing back the Warden is very difficult. But then I am left wondering why all the not so subtle hints at a continuation in the Awakening epilogue.

What's the point of forcing the Warden to disapear for no reason and say no one doubted their story was over, if you are not even sure you can bring them back? That slide was useless and could have easily been replaced by something subtle, not necessarily promising anything, which that slide virtually did.

Also, the ending at Witch Hunt did NOT provide any closure at all, it raised more questions than it answered. Again, if you are not sure that the Warden can come back, why give him the choice to follow Morrigan through the mirror? What's the point? If there is a Morrigan centric game in the future and the Warden who followed her does not show up, then that choice was pointless.
I was perfectly willing to see Morigan leaving forever as a good bittersweet closure. Following her through the mirror however is not closure.

To keep the ranting short, if it's not clear that you can bring the Warden back, it would have been better to be subtle (Awakening epilogue) and less ambitious about choices (Witch Hunt).

Woah. This. Definitely this.
Origins and Awakening left the door opened, no closure at all with that "His/her story isn't over yet".
And also...the Morrigan bit. We were promised that all our questions would be answered *laughs* and no question was answered, in fact...we now have even more questions.
So yeah...I'm actually waiting to see something else regarding the Warden. And Morrigan, of course.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 22 novembre 2010 - 04:12 .

[David Gaider]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
To keep the ranting short, if it's not clear that you can bring the Warden back, it would have been better to be subtle (Awakening epilogue) and less ambitious about choices (Witch Hunt).

Maybe.

A story "not being finished" is, however, not the same as a story "being continued only with the Warden as a PC". I get that some people might really want that, and not be able to wrap their heads around how it could be otherwise, but that doesn't make it the only possibility-- or the only desireable outcome, neither for you as the fan nor for us as the creators.

If we leave our bases open sometimes, it's often because we don't like to write ourselves in a corner and have something absolute that makes it much more awkward to pick up if we need to-- not that we don't get some of that anyhow, even so. But if someone's assertation is that "the Warden's story isn't finished" then I simply have to disagree. The Warden's story was the story of DAO: the Blight and the fight against the Archdemon. It's done. As I said before, if the Warden was to feature again in the future it would require a new story-- and a side plot does not that story make, despite how much some people seem to magnify its personal importance in their heads.

The Morrigan side plot applies here in particular-- some people seem to think that's "the Warden's story" simply because their PC intersected with it (possibly-- though only possibly-- in a very significant way). But that's not the Warden's story. That's Morrigan's story. While the Warden may feature a prominent (or even starring) role in it, that's not the same as it being about the Warden... if you can remove a character from the story and it survives intact, then I think that pretty much proves the point.

Again, does that mean we're done with the Warden ever appearing again? Possibly... or maybe not. I promise nothing, and we have our own plans for how the overall story arc is going to resolve itself. My only comment is directed towards some of the anguished hand-wringing or the people asserting that there's only one possible way for this to go and anything else is some kind of broken promise (one that was neither made nor implied). I'm simply saying there's a big difference between where someone might say they want the story to head, what they would actually be happy with and where it would be wise to go.

No doubt this is no different than any story or series that has fans who express a personal need for a story to provide them something specific, and then being unhappy if it doesn't roll that way-- but some perspective would be nice. Unrealistic for me to expect, probably, but so be it.

Modifié par David Gaider, 22 novembre 2010 - 04:09 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

David Gaider wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...
Even though your the head writer and creator, I have to disagree with you from a fan viewpoint.  Most of my player characters are female and doing the DR has no romantic involvement with Morrigan - except as her friend.   I'm still connected to her story line having Alistair/Loghain do the DR on my behalf.  I would feel cheated if my warden wasn't a part of the future and whatever is coming down the pike involving that storyline.  I think this is all fans are really saying, they want their warden to see the conclusion of that plot thread to it's conclusion with the original character that started the storyline with her.  I hope you and BioWare just consider those of us who did the DR would like our wardens to be a part of that.

Sure, I get that "from a fan viewpoint" it's hard to see past the one character which you're emotionally connected to. I'd hope that you see, however, everyone essentially asking for different things-- if we did give them what they're asking for, I suspect that for most people that wouldn't actually be what they wanted. They don't really want a brand new story with the Warden and the requisite "re-booting" that would come along with that (both from a gameplay and story perspective)... they want their personal narrative to continue on, their relationships to continue, and every hanging plot thread to be neatly tied up so they're not left wondering what something might have led to down the road.

Walking off into the sunset doesn't do those things, no, but I'd also suggest that not walking off into the sunset might be much worse "from a fan viewpoint"... so be careful what you ask for, because you just might get it.

I hope we do get it.  I'd love the chance to kick Morrigan's butt, with my HNF warden who is Queen and also for the fact can I win in a battle with a mage that I buildt?  I'd love that chance, but I imagine in do so would mean kicking Alistair's butt as well, this would be hard to take (for some of my wardens, not all of them). 

I guess I'll have to make due with fan fiction!  LOL!  

[Master Shiori]

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

Well...if this game turns out good, we will all be asking by DA3 is my "Hawke's" story over? It's just life.

You can be certain of that.

It's simply one of the drawbacks of having a new protagonist for each game. People will grow attached to each of them and demand "more".

Granted bringing the Warden back would not be easy, especially in light of the whole cinematic approach and VO that DA2 is bringing aboard.

For one you'd either need to find 2 voice actors who can voice humans, elves and dwarves or retcon the Warden to being human noble or human mage.
Then there's Warden specific cinematics that would have to be done in separate versions for each playable race (due to height difference).

Not saying it cannot be done if Bioware wants to, but we as players would need to accept that some of our Wardens would be retconned.

All I'm hoping for is that Bioware is at very least measuring the pros and cons of both options (bringing the Warden back and using a new protagonist) and will pick the one they feel works best, rather than just eliminate the Warden out of hand (since it's "easier").

[Lord Gremlin]

Master Shiori wrote...

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

Well...if this game turns out good, we will all be asking by DA3 is my "Hawke's" story over? It's just life.

You can be certain of that.

It's simply one of the drawbacks of having a new protagonist for each game. People will grow attached to each of them and demand "more".

But think of opportunities. Imagine 3 games - about Warden, Hawke and third game about someone else - and then 4th game wraps it up - and you realize that first three games were sneaky parts of same story.

[Master Shiori]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

Well...if this game turns out good, we will all be asking by DA3 is my "Hawke's" story over? It's just life.

You can be certain of that.

It's simply one of the drawbacks of having a new protagonist for each game. People will grow attached to each of them and demand "more".

But think of opportunities. Imagine 3 games - about Warden, Hawke and third game about someone else - and then 4th game wraps it up - and you realize that first three games were sneaky parts of same story.

I'm pretty certain that DA:O, DA2 and DA3 will all be part of the same story, though that story will be bigger than each protagonists individual tale.
Kind of comes with the whole "your choices will shape the world" deal.

I'm not going pull out my hair and cry bitter tears if my Warden doesn't reappear with Morrigan in DA3, as long as their history and relationship is acknowledged and my choices regarding Morrigan in DA:O, Witch Hunt and DA3 have an effect on her ultimate fate.
The only thing I'm really going to start spitting hot coals over is if we get another Dark Ritual where all roads lead to the same end (in DA:O it's Morrigan leaving).
Let my actions and choices regarding Morrigan actually have an effect on her ultimate fate, rather than giving me a "one ending to fit everyone".