724 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

David Gaider wrote...
If we leave our bases open sometimes, it's often because we don't like to write ourselves in a corner and have something absolute that makes it much more awkward to pick up if we need to-- not that we don't get some of that anyhow, even so.

I understand, but isn't forcing the Warden to disapear for no explained reason and then practically saying "to be continued", writing yourself in a corner?
Of course you are under no obligation to continue anything, or even think that there is something to be continued. 
But I would think that keeping your bases open could have been accomplished without such a slide. But I am not a writer, so I don't know.

David Gaider wrote...
The Morrigan side plot applies here in particular-- some people seem to think that's "the Warden's story" simply because their PC intersected with it (possibly-- though only possibly-- in a very significant way). But that's not the Warden's story. That's Morrigan's story. While the Warden may feature a prominent (or even starring) role in it, that's not the same as it being about the Warden... if you can remove a character from the story and it survives intact, then I think that pretty much proves the point.

I agree here, I personally am not expecting the Warden to be central in the Morrigan plot.
However, the fact that the Warden knows Morrigan, and might even be friends with her, or loves her, provides a very personal perspective on Morrigan that an unknown PC could not provide.

I am not saying that a new PC in a Morrigan story would be horrible or is impossible. No, it can definately be great and it's certainly possible. However, I personally think it's more desirable to have a PC that knows Morrigan personally. It would add something to the story that an unknown PC can't. Add the fact that the Old God Baby can be our kid or the kid of a friend / romance. All these factors add a more personal (for the lack of a better word, I just woke up) relationship with Morrigan.

Again, I am not a writer, so I don't know if this is even possible to implement in a future game. But to me, not using this, even if it isn't necessary per se, sounds like a waste.

But it is not the only possible way to deal with the story, for sure.
I'll just have to imagine what my Warden is doing in Mirror world and hope he isn't being useless there. That would be meeh.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 novembre 2010 - 04:35 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

errant_knight wrote...

Yes. I want to know why my warden (or warden and Alistair) disappeared--and from sharing the experience, not being told about it. I want more adventures with them, and ideally, I'd like to find a way to keep them from dying of the taint. But I get that it may be difficult to do given all the possible endings in Origins. Still, it would be nice.

Worst case scenario, they get killed off to make us shut up.

Really, an expansion that had nothing to do with the larger, over-arching plot would have been fine for me, and would have been enough.

I agree.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Caladhiel wrote...
My Warden's story ended with DA:O - everything that comes after that is open to my imagination. I know he's going to succumb to the Calling sooner or later, but I really don't feel the need to continue the story with that particular character up to that point. I think taking his story too far would actually result in the opposite of what I would wish: it would spoil the fun.

The problem is, with the Awakening epilogue, it's not open to your imagination.

Sure you can imagine how and why your Warden disapeared, but what if your Warden wanted to remain in Ferelden? what if your  Warden wanted to go with Sten? Or is co-ruling Ferelden?

That slide served no purpose at all and could have easily been replaced.
Now it doesn't matter that much, we can just imagine that bandits kidnapped the Warden, who killed them all and then went back to do what he / she wanted. But that's meeh.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 novembre 2010 - 04:35 .

[Leonia]

Here's the blog entry I alluded to earlier: http://social.biowar...9598/blog/11413

I'd be very interested in knowing what others want to see in their continued Warden stories (regardless if such a thing actually happens in a future game or not).

Modifié par leonia42, 22 novembre 2010 - 04:37 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Some of my warden's stories ended in Origins.



I dont really want to see my warden dragged out and Lazarused back into the sequel. While I enjoyed playing the warden I dont want them to be dragged all over the world again and again, with redone faces, and a fancy new VO which they dont sound like.



Give me some knowledge about what happened to them and I will be fine and dandy, but if I never get anything and am left with "he/she dissapeared" then I wont be.

Unless I hear that he/she ran off with a certain red haired bard, then I will be happy.

[Wulfram]

The Warden's son is part of the Warden's story, I'd say.

Chopping the warden out of Morrigan's story off screen is something I can't see working - I really don't know what Bioware was thinking with that ending to Witch Hunt if they are planning to bring back Morrigan alone.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Caladhiel wrote...
My Warden's story ended with DA:O - everything that comes after that is open to my imagination. I know he's going to succumb to the Calling sooner or later, but I really don't feel the need to continue the story with that particular character up to that point. I think taking his story too far would actually result in the opposite of what I would wish: it would spoil the fun.

The problem is, with the Awakening epilogue, it's not open to your imagination.

Sure you can imagine how and why your Warden disapeared, but what if your Warden wanted to remain in Ferelden? what if your  Warden wanted to go with Sten? Or is co-ruling Ferelden?

That slide served no purpose at all and could have easily been replaced.
Now it doesn't matter that much, we can just imagine that bandits kidnapped the Warden, who killed them all and then went back to do what he / she wanted. But that's meeh.

I don't have enough information at the end of Awakening to give myself an ending, so I agree with you.   Most of my PC are female.  My HNF I could possibly explain with the disciples, then Alistair disappears as well and he was King so why did he disappear?  Unless both of us disappear for different reasons?  It truly doesn't make sense with a HNF PC who is married to Alistair.   I up and leave for no reason and I disappear, but I'm to young to go to the deep roads for my calling, so it's not that ending.  

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Wulfram wrote...

The Warden's son is part of the Warden's story, I'd say.
Chopping the warden out of Morrigan's story off screen is something I can't see working - I really don't know what Bioware was thinking with that ending to Witch Hunt if they are planning to bring back Morrigan alone.

Not all of those wardens are male. 

[ace100000]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Some of my warden's stories ended in Origins.

I dont really want to see my warden dragged out and Lazarused back into the sequel. While I enjoyed playing the warden I dont want them to be dragged all over the world again and again, with redone faces, and a fancy new VO which they dont sound like.

Give me some knowledge about what happened to them and I will be fine and dandy, but if I never get anything and am left with "he/she dissapeared" then I wont be.
Unless I hear that he/she ran off with a certain red haired bard, then I will be happy.

OH come on i would rather have a simple short statement explaining my warden was killed by bandits than that 

[upsettingshorts]

leonia42 wrote...

Here's the blog entry I alluded to earlier: http://social.biowar...9598/blog/11413

I'd be very interested in knowing what others want to see in their continued Warden stories (regardless if such a thing actually happens in a future game or not).

See, all my main character wants to do after the whole Blight thing is over is settle down with Leliana and run the Teyrn of Gwaren.  Honestly, I mean - I'd play that game.  It'd be like SimGwaren.  Maybe it would spill over into choosing sides with my feudal army in the Eamon revolt you mention, but running his domain would be the focus.

Add that to the list of Warden story requests.  I think we're up to a billion now.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 22 novembre 2010 - 04:48 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Wulfram wrote...

The Warden's son is part of the Warden's story, I'd say.
Chopping the warden out of Morrigan's story off screen is something I can't see working - I really don't know what Bioware was thinking with that ending to Witch Hunt if they are planning to bring back Morrigan alone.

I agree here. But it was kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't.
If they didn't provide some semblance of a happy ending, many would have been pissed off.
But in doing that, it's almost like they wrote themselves into a corner.

Even if they weren't sure whether the Warden can be brought back or not, a less ambitious ending would have been better. Because going through the mirror, especially if the OGB is there, has a lot of implications.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 novembre 2010 - 04:47 .

[Legbiter]

Yes. The effects of his actions linger on if you import a save however.

[Legbiter]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I understand, but isn't forcing the Warden to disapear for no explained reason and then practically saying "to be continued", writing yourself in a corner?

No.

It's a story device to give your imagination something to work with after the story arc is complete. Man up and deal mmkay.

[Maria Caliban]

Wulfram wrote...

The Warden's son is part of the Warden's story, I'd say.

Some parents tend to have trouble recognizing that their child's life is not merely an extension of their own, but children rarely see it that way.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 22 novembre 2010 - 04:52 .

[Leonia]

It just seems to me that so many of us want the option of playing as our Warden again but so few seem to say why. We hear a lot of "but I want to continue this or that" and I have to wonder; why? Why is that so important? I guess, for me, though I played as The Warden in Origins the story didn't seem focused on my PC and so my level of attachment was quite low (though I still love playing "what if" with my imagination from time to time). It's like, ok, guys, if you COULD bring your Warden back for more, what would you really want? Is it even possible for the writers to write something that would remotely please such a request? Or are our ideas of what the Warden should be doing so numerous and unique to each of us individually that it just becomes a chaotic mess. I'm not trying to trivialise the importance of The Warden as a character, but I am genuinely intrigued by how adamantly everyone seems to defend their Warden's need to continue on.

[upsettingshorts]

Despite my answer above, I don't actually want to play my Warden anymore because I simply don't want to be a Grey Warden anymore, and that seems intrinsically tied to his or her character. I'm happy with "to be continued" being the end.



...I'd still play SimGwaren though.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
 I'm happy with "to be continued" being the end.

Yea well that's my reaction:

(jk)

It could have been something more subtle than disapearing. They could have left it compeltely open and let us imagine things from there.
I just don't see the point.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 novembre 2010 - 04:59 .

[Leonia]

I'm happy just writing about Liao Mahariel from time to time, seeing how she's pissed off the Chantry and gotten an Exaltd March called agains the Wardens. But I wouldn't want to play her in a future game. Everything now is in my head, she goes on grand adventures and gets herself knee-deep into politics she could careless about. I'd equate it to eventually becoming Total War: Grey Wardens versus The Chantry. I love writing battle scenes and playing around with politics and betrayals and all that sort of fun military-sounding stuff. Unless we get an RTS version of DA (with mounted combat to boot) in the future, her story is never going to work in-game again. I'm totally ok with that.

Modifié par leonia42, 22 novembre 2010 - 05:00 .

[upsettingshorts]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
It could have been something more subtle than disapearing. They could have left it compeltely open and let us imagine things from there.
I just don't see the point.

I think the point is trying to reconcile everyone's expectations is impossible due to the options DA:O gives the player.  They'd have to hit the reset button.

Fancy your Warden getting killed and rebuilt through magic by the Tevinter Imperium?

[Legbiter]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

...I'd still play SimGwaren though.

Heh, that's exactly what I picture my warden to be doing, Goofing around Gwaren with Leli in tow.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Fancy your Warden getting killed and rebuilt through magic by the Tevinter Imperium?

I do.

[Utoryo]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The problem is, with the Awakening epilogue, it's not open to your imagination.
[...]

Thank you! I couldn't agree more or have said it better myself. That's EXACTLY my problem with the DA:A epilogue. The DA:O epilogue was perfect (except for minor bugs) in most endings as it left things open to the imagination - the DA:A epilogue simply does not for the Fereldan Warden (the Orlesian epilogue is about what you'd expect I suppose).

My primary Warden became Chancellor to King Alistair as boon (who is also hardened, and her lover). She was very friendly with Morrigan (as in genuinely agreeing with some of her core ideals and being power hungry, not just giving her every gift in the game), but even if she could have she wouldn't have followed her into the mirror because she wouldn't have wanted to leave everything behind (which is why I love Morrigan's line saying that she cannot ask her to make such a sacrifice).

I know I'm in the minority here, but I *want* my Warden's story to be over. It's a very good ending (at least for that character) and it doesn't need a bunch of DLC that does not properly take her choices into consideration (e.g. I didn't complete Golems of Amgarrak with her because it made no sense as a Chancellor). I can't really imagine any reason for her to disappear, unless she was kidnapped ala BG2:SoA, and given her rank it's not as if nobody would be looking for her. And given that (unlike in BG1), the Warden can die at the end of DA:O, it's not as if there could be major future content that *requires* the Fereldan Warden. So removing agency here is just a lose-lose in my mind, and as you said a more subtle epilogue slide would have been better for everyone.

Ideally it could have been something along the lines of "And he/she continued [specific epilogue], at least for some years..." - ah well, if the DA2 story rocks as much as I'd expect it to given the writing team behind it, I'll probably forget about this completely soon enough anyway!

Modifié par Utoryo, 22 novembre 2010 - 05:07 .

[Leonia]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

It could have been something more subtle than disapearing. They could have left it compeltely open and let us imagine things from there.
I just don't see the point.

But disappearing.. means anything could happen. Really, the possibilities are endless. To me, that IS leaving it open for us to decide things from there. How would you have written the epilogues to allow more freedom than that?

[Lord_Valandil]

Legbiter wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I understand, but isn't forcing the Warden to disapear for no explained reason and then practically saying "to be continued", writing yourself in a corner?

No.

It's a story device to give your imagination something to work with after the story arc is complete. Man up and deal mmkay.

Haha, don't make me laugh.
Seriously though, I do want some closure. Like KnightofPhoenix said, the Warden's story still has a lot of loose ties...and just leaving the questions without answers is kinda lame.
I'm sure the writers' intentions are full of good will and rainbows and pandas...but that excuse of "leave it to the imagination" sounds like they've run out of ideas and don't know how the end the story. Hmmm?
The advertisement of Witch Hunt, promising closure and answers was just goddamn awful.

Well, enough rant. Now I'm back to studying for my exam.

[upsettingshorts]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Fancy your Warden getting killed and rebuilt through magic by the Tevinter Imperium?

I do.

I'd probably play that game too.  But it runs the risk of invalidating a lot of choice - you're practically on the other side of the known world - and make a lot of plot threads personally irrelevant to Cyborg Magic Warden.  I think it would bother a lot of people, to the point that making a new character like Hawke and moving on would legimitately seem like a better idea.  But that's just my guess.