724 réponses à ce sujet

[Morrigans God son]

[nuclearpengu1nn]

i like pie

[dragonboy12]

I hope the Warden's story isn't over, I like the idea of Hawke and the warden coming together in DA3 but there is the old chestnut of people choosing to kill their warden in DA:O. Looking back I think for narrative purposes it was stupid to offer the option of the ultimate sacrifice.

[upsettingshorts]

dragonboy12 wrote...

I hope the Warden's story isn't over, I like the idea of Hawke and the warden coming together in DA3 but there is the old chestnut of people choosing to kill their warden in DA:O. Looking back I think for narrative purposes it was stupid to offer the option of the ultimate sacrifice.

In that sense it could be said it was equally "stupid" to offer options other than the ultimate sacrifice, if there was no intent to pursue the story of the Warden any further beyond the Blight.  Expansions and DLC could have simply been placed before the Siege of Denerim.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 22 novembre 2010 - 08:39 .

[dragonboy12]

I suppose. Now that I think about it more they should have done what they're doing with DA2 now, have a set ending and focus more on the means of acheiving that end. I assume that ultimately for the purpose of future games they would end it with the dark ritual option. It's not like it would have been hard to justify that end even to the people who made the ultimate goody two shoes, can you really trust Anora or Alistair to not mess up?

[upsettingshorts]

dragonboy12 wrote...
 It's not like it would have been hard to justify that end even to the people who made the ultimate goody two shoes, can you really trust Anora or Alistair to not mess up?

Sure, if you hardened Alistair and married him to Anora.  The epilogue couldn't have possibly been more effusive in its praise towards that particular union.

[errant_knight]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

dragonboy12 wrote...
 It's not like it would have been hard to justify that end even to the people who made the ultimate goody two shoes, can you really trust Anora or Alistair to not mess up?

Sure, if you hardened Alistair and married him to Anora.  The epilogue couldn't have possibly been more effusive in its praise towards that particular union.

It's just as positive about a hardened Alistair's rule. No reason to think he messes up. Anora's has the one downside of the alienage, but apart from that, she does great things.

[dragonboy12]

But if you were a complete saint then you probably wouldn't have hardened him and let's face it, Anora was a power hungry b*tch who would probably take advantage of him seeing as Eamon wouldn't be there watching out all the time.



Basically whatever your stance is you can justify it, I personally think the whole dark ritual/warden survival option is better in the long term for future games etc.

[upsettingshorts]

dragonboy12 wrote...

But if you were a complete saint then you probably wouldn't have hardened him and let's face it, Anora was a power hungry b*tch who would probably take advantage of him seeing as Eamon wouldn't be there watching out all the time.

Basically whatever your stance is you can justify it, I personally think the whole dark ritual/warden survival option is better in the long term for future games etc.

Anora wasn't a power hungry ****.  Think about what happens to her if she isn't Queen by the end of the story.  Think she might have seen that coming?  She's not stupid.  Preserving her throne is as much about her own freedom and survival as it is power.  She's certainly at the very least just as conniving as Eamon, if not less so. 

Anyway, I'm an Anora fan so let's just leave i there. 

errant_knight wrote...

It's just as positive about a hardened Alistair's rule. No reason to think he messes up. Anora's has the one downside of the alienage, but apart from that, she does great things.

Does it go so far as to say the Blight and Civil War were worth it to have ended up with him?  I remember that's what it said about the hardened/marriage option.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 22 novembre 2010 - 09:02 .

[Gemini1179]

Morrigan for main character in DA3!

[ejoslin]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The problem is, with the Awakening epilogue, it's not open to your imagination.

Sure you can imagine how and why your Warden disapeared, but what if your Warden wanted to remain in Ferelden? what if your  Warden wanted to go with Sten? Or is co-ruling Ferelden?

That slide served no purpose at all and could have easily been replaced.
Now it doesn't matter that much, we can just imagine that bandits kidnapped the Warden, who killed them all and then went back to do what he / she wanted. But that's meeh.

Not all wardens disappeared at the end of Awakening, which leads to yet another problem.  Of course, since the slides i'm thinking of speak of rumors, i suppose those can be discounted.

There are just too many paths, i think.  if they continue the warden, some people are going to be very upset.

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 novembre 2010 - 10:07 .

[Angarma]

Gemini1179 wrote...

Morrigan for main character in DA3!

Yup I can see what happens when character creator finishes and the player picks "male."

*Morrigan steps out of the Eluvian Portal with a young boy in tow, the boy looks at Morrigan with a grin*
"Hmm I better check with my golden mirror if anything has gone wrong in the re-entry into Thedas"

*Takes mirror out from pack and adjusts it to reflect 'her' face*
"WHAT?! how can this be! this is not right.. we must go back through the portal and try again."

*Portal closes just before Morrigan can go through once again*
"NOOOOOOOO!!!!"

Well if you mean by "main character" the "player character" then this text would be quite humourous.
If not, then I've failed terribly and need to go hide in some corner somewhere.

[Lord_Valandil]

GreyWarden36 wrote...

i like pie

And I like pancakes.

Thus...

Pancakes > Pie.

[Fortlowe]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

GreyWarden36 wrote...

i like pie

And I like pancakes.

Thus...

Pancakes > Pie.

^ Win.



*Jacks Valandils pancakes while he's not looking*

[Lord_Valandil]

Fortlowe wrote...

*Jacks Valandils pancakes while he's not looking*

Hey, my pancakes disappeared!

[DAOME2FTW]

It is far too difficult too difficult to re-create the wardens story and make it perfect for everybody, each and every romance option and variation of that romance option would have to conclude. Along with all the other stuff. If I worked for them, I would probably tell them to do an everybody dies ending.

[Brockololly]

ejoslin wrote...
Not all wardens disappeared at the end of Awakening, which leads to yet another problem.  Of course, since the slides i'm thinking of speak of rumors, i suppose those can be discounted.

But a good many of the Wardens disappear or vanish. Of course, its entirely likely that they hand wave away any epilogue stuff, seeing as Morrigan supposedly was in Orlais and at the end of Awakening my Warden headed off to Orlais to look for Morrigan, yet she turned up back in Ferelden. *shrugs*

[Nerevar-as]

Brockololly wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Not all wardens disappeared at the end of Awakening, which leads to yet another problem.  Of course, since the slides i'm thinking of speak of rumors, i suppose those can be discounted.

But a good many of the Wardens disappear or vanish. Of course, its entirely likely that they hand wave away any epilogue stuff, seeing as Morrigan supposedly was in Orlais and at the end of Awakening my Warden headed off to Orlais to look for Morrigan, yet she turned up back in Ferelden. *shrugs*

We probably have DA2 taking the remaining year of DLC to thank for that. Many hints to Orlais, and might also explain Leliana´s Song taking place in Denerim. At least we got the last 5 minutes from WH. 

Modifié par Nerevar-as, 22 novembre 2010 - 10:57 .

[David Gaider]

PureMethodActor wrote...
David, don't listen to anyone who tells you what to do, like Legbiter is. We Warden supporters at least haven't done that. We know its your team's game and you can do what you want. We've only been giving explanations for why we feel its right or wise to continue the Warden's story when Morrigan returns.

Oh, I get why it could be potentially compelling if the Warden was the PC if and when Morrigan's story reappeared... perhaps more compelling then her story not being told through a Warden PC, it's really hard for anyone to judge that without knowing the context of her reappearance. For all the other stuff that would have to happen in order to get that one scenario, however, I'm not convinced as to just how right or wise it would be... and I suspect those who are advocating it aren't thinking much beyond that one scenario as to the larger context it would have to take place in. There isn't much of a notion, it seems, as to just what the Warden PC would be doing otherwise, and while some people at least make a vague gesture towards admitting "it would be difficult to continue the Warden as a PC" they usually then proceed to ignore that admission.

Is that bad? No, I get that too-- it's an emotional connection that not everyone wants to abandon just yet. Some people want stories to keep going no matter what, regardless of whether we wish to keep telling it or whether there's a rational thread for that story to hinge on beyond whatever element they're missing.

All I'm going to say is I doubt we'd simply disregard the choices the Warden made, especially with regards to how it affected Morrigan's story. And we haven't ruled out anything. If I seem over-cautious it's only in the interest of not letting people's expectations run out of control... or in answer to those who suggest there's some kind of promise to keep the Warden going as a PC, or that a sequel couldn't possibly exist without it (which is just plain wrong). You're free to want what you want and request it, by all means. As to what the future holds, we shall see.

Modifié par David Gaider, 23 novembre 2010 - 01:35 .

[upsettingshorts]

Just kill off the Warden and resurrect him with magic. It worked for Shepard!

This time though for the equivalent of the Lazarus project cutscene, use the theme song from The Six-Million Dollar Man.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 23 novembre 2010 - 01:37 .

[Ortaya Alevli]

filaminstrel wrote...

You know a thread is good when it has Terminator Morrigan and pancakes in it.

Can't argue with that.

[TheRevanchist]

Like David said...the Warden's story is already over, their story was The Blight and it's done. The DR is not the Warden's story it's Morrigan's story. I don't see any need to bring the Warden back because they are a Grey Warden, their job is done and they can enjoy life. On top of that bringing the Warden back is basicly a big middle finger to people like me who love the Ultimate Sacrifice ending.



Whereas continueing the DR story without the Warden is NOT a middle finger to those who selected it. Why? because thats not the Warden's story it's Morrigan's. All the Warden did was send her story in a different direction. Much like the Uuruk-Hai attack in Fellowship of the Ring sent Frodo's story in a different direction to the same conclusion, instead of going with the Fellowship he goes with only Sam. The destination is the same, the only thing thats different is the means of getting there.



Bioware does it's best not to impose a canon upon it's player base. Because if they did there would be no point in making choices to begin with. I can understand the Warden supporters view on this but I firmly believe it's best if they don't reappear.



The story of the DR can continue without the Warden being there without causeing too much fuss. However if you add the Warden into the equation the US people will raise hell (and rightfuly so) that basicly...their choice don't count. Is that honestly fair to that player base? No it's not, the DR people can still get their conclusion without the Warden being there to ****** off those who made the US. Just because the Warden made that choice in the DR does not mean they HAVE to be there whenever something involved in the DR happens. Morrigan disappears for a reason, she does not want you to interfear. Ever think there might be a reason for that? Just like Flemeth had a reason to appear as a helpless old woman to the Warden? (Gaider confirmed she had a reason for that btw.)



So while I understand and respect your desire to see the Warden again. Try to look at it from the US perspective. If you were a US player would you want your choice totaly ignored simply to appeal to a fan base that does not share your choice when it wasn't nessisary to write your choice off as "non-canon"?