724 réponses à ce sujet

[errant_knight]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

dragonboy12 wrote...

But if you were a complete saint then you probably wouldn't have hardened him and let's face it, Anora was a power hungry b*tch who would probably take advantage of him seeing as Eamon wouldn't be there watching out all the time.

Basically whatever your stance is you can justify it, I personally think the whole dark ritual/warden survival option is better in the long term for future games etc.

Anora wasn't a power hungry ****.  Think about what happens to her if she isn't Queen by the end of the story.  Think she might have seen that coming?  She's not stupid.  Preserving her throne is as much about her own freedom and survival as it is power.  She's certainly at the very least just as conniving as Eamon, if not less so. 

Anyway, I'm an Anora fan so let's just leave i there. 

errant_knight wrote...

It's just as positive about a hardened Alistair's rule. No reason to think he messes up. Anora's has the one downside of the alienage, but apart from that, she does great things.

Does it go so far as to say the Blight and Civil War were worth it to have ended up with him?  I remember that's what it said about the hardened/marriage option.

Personally, I think that's ridiculous in any context. Nothing makes the blight 'worth it.' The slides say a lot of things that one may or may not agree with. The discussion was about 'messing up', and neither he nor Anora can be said to do that. Alistair is beloved by the people and a good king, Anora advances the country. Me, I'm not going to marry two people who hate each other to put an extra gloss on what's already shiny.

[Wulfram]

If you're concluding the DR story, then you're screwing the US players anyway, since their choice is being made non-canon.



If there's no Warden and the OGB is either non existant, or necessarily tangential to the plot, then what's the point of bringing Morrigan back? What's so compelling that it justifies screwing up those wardens who actually care what happens with Morrigan?

[David Gaider]

Wulfram wrote...
If you're concluding the DR story, then you're screwing the US players anyway, since their choice is being made non-canon.

If there's no Warden and the OGB is either non existant, or necessarily tangential to the plot, then what's the point of bringing Morrigan back? What's so compelling that it justifies screwing up those wardens who actually care what happens with Morrigan?

That really depends on why Morrigan returns, doesn't it? The assumption that the nature of her return would have to "screw" anyone is simply panic talk-- as is the idea that we'd have to ignore player decisions in order to accomplish it.... no less so than the idea that the only reason to have her return would be to offer something to players who had a relationship with Morrigan/did the DR/went through the mirror with her in WH.

Not so. Though the more I talk about this, the less I want to accomodate anyone. Christ almighty.

[mellifera]

Uh oh... I hope the complaints of some don't ruin it for the rest of us

[blothulfur]

How cool would it have been if they had released a calling dlc after witch hunt to give some closure to those who survived the fall of the archdemon and refused morrigans offer at the eluvian, and at the end it played that old wardens calling trailer as you faced the darkspawn hordes one last time.

[TheRevanchist]

DSerpa wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

On top of that bringing the Warden back is basicly a big middle finger to people like me who love the Ultimate Sacrifice ending.

How so?

kylecouch wrote...
Whereas continueing the DR story without the Warden is NOT a middle finger to those who selected it. Why? because thats not the Warden's story it's Morrigan's.

I object to your use of a metaphorical middle finger. I suspect that if Morrigan appears again without the Warden's involvement, it will be anticlimactic and disappointing to those whose Warden went with her through the Eluvian. But not acknowledging the Warden isn't a "big middle finger" to those whose Warden romanced her because that's not the choice you made, right?

kylecouch wrote...
Bioware does it's best not to impose a canon upon it's player base. Because if they did there would be no point in making choices to begin with. I can understand the Warden supporters view on this but I firmly believe it's best if they don't reappear.

 Good for you.

kylecouch wrote...
The story of the DR can continue without the Warden being there without causeing too much fuss. However if you add the Warden into the equation the US people will raise hell (and rightfuly so) that basicly...their choice don't count. Is that honestly fair to that player base? No it's not, the DR people can still get their conclusion without the Warden being there to ****** off those who made the US. Just because the Warden made that choice in the DR does not mean they HAVE to be there whenever something involved in the DR happens. Morrigan disappears for a reason, she does not want you to interfear. Ever think there might be a reason for that? Just like Flemeth had a reason to appear as a helpless old woman to the Warden? (Gaider confirmed she had a reason for that btw.)

What about those whose Warden went with Morrigan through the Eluvian? Do you think that having Morrigan remark that the Warden was crushed by rocks or some such thing offcamera won't cause a fuss?

kylecouch wrote...
So while I understand and respect your desire to see the Warden again. Try to look at it from the US perspective. If you were a US player would you want your choice totaly ignored simply to appeal to a fan base that does not share your choice when it wasn't nessisary to write your choice off as "non-canon"?

Switch US with Romance-DR and read that back to yourself. Give the writers some credit. They can bring back the Warden (or even a secondary protagonist) without resorting to making the US non-canon. Whether or not they decide to remains to be seen.

How so? the dude is freakin dead! No one comes back from death without a lame ass ret-con. Bringing the Warden back DOES make the US non-canon. Ret-cons are...imo...a poor way to tell storys and thats exactly what would happen if he just magicly "comes back to life" so DR/romance people can have their presious Warden back. Granted their is the exception of Warden's that go through the Eluvian, however...again...building upon that is making the US people not important becuase there Warden does not live to do that.

Secondly it's not "anticlimactic" if Morrigan appears without the Warden. It's Morrigan's story NOT the Warden's. The Warden does not HAVE to be there. You just want the Warden back without any disregard to how US people might feel about The Warden making a magical reapperance that should not happen to begin with. THis is not DBZ where death is just a set back (unless your Flemeth but thats another topic.) Death means YOUR FREAKIN DEAD. The US becomes utterly pointless to make in the first place if he can simply come back to life at a latter time. It's called a Sacrifice, meaning there is no going back, no second chances. Secondly if the Warden does return for a Morrigan plot...wth is a US Warden even going to do!? theres no baby...she hates your guts there absolutly no reason for a US Warden to even be there.

There is no this can occure without taking a massive crap on the whole US option. Maybe you just don't want to see that because your so blinded by "I want this and don't care what others think" type of attitudes. The Warden is NOT an inmovable part of the DR story. Secondly exploreing the Eluvian option excludes Female Wardens automaticly regardless of DR choices. Would you really exclude them as well as US people just to get what you want?

[Wulfram]

David Gaider wrote...

That really depends on why Morrigan returns, doesn't it? The assumption that the nature of her return would have to "screw" anyone is simply panic talk-- as is the idea that we'd have to ignore player decisions in order to accomplish it.... no less so than the idea that the only reason to have her return would be to offer something to players who had a relationship with Morrigan/did the DR/went through the mirror with her in WH.

Not so. Though the more I talk about this, the less I want to accomodate anyone. Christ almighty.

Well, I can't see a scenario which doesn't screw at least some characters up, aside from a meaningless cameo anyway.  But perhaps that's why I'm not a writer

[ejoslin]

A lot of people think their warden's story should be important, and for just about all of us who feel that way, the love interest was a huge part of that story. I have reconciled myself to knowing that the love story i prefer, Zevran's, will most likely never be referenced again. I mean, you can scoff at that and think, "well, Zevran's story isn't that important, he can be killed, yadada and Morrigan IS important, therefore my warden should be more important, have more of a story, than yours." But this would alienate a lot of people, because there were four romances, not just one.

And i think this is a big problem. The dark ritual should be a huge decision. You are unleashing a powerful ally or foe onto the world. but how big a part of that story should the warden play? And how can that work for all wardens, not just males who romanced Morrigan?

I would love real resolution for my warden's story, but even that I'm not sure about, because I may hate whatever ending is decided.

Honestly, it would tick me off completely to come back and not have MY romance decisions acknowledged in a positive manner as well.  I get why Morrigan fans want what they want -- all DAO fans i think want that.  But I don't want my story ruined either.

I think I just have to trust in the writers.

Modifié par ejoslin, 23 novembre 2010 - 05:18 .

[Brockololly]

kylecouch wrote...

Like David said...the Warden's story is already over, their story was The Blight and it's done. The DR is not the Warden's story it's Morrigan's story. I don't see any need to bring the Warden back because they are a Grey Warden, their job is done and they can enjoy life. On top of that bringing the Warden back is basicly a big middle finger to people like me who love the Ultimate Sacrifice ending.

RIght- the Warden's historical function of stopping the Archdemon and the Blight is over. End of that story. Thats like saying Luke Skywalker's story is done because he blew up the Death Star and can therefore do nothing else of not ever again.

The US really already got the middle finger with Awakening not being able to import the US Warden's world into the Orlesian's game. I don't agree with that and think it was a huge mistake, but there you go.

kylecouch wrote...
The destination is the same, the only thing thats different is the means of getting there.

The whole point in playing a game or reading a book or watching a movie is all that stuff in the middle- thats the stuff that matters and makes any ending hold any weight and resonance. Why bother if you're just skipping to the end to see what happens?

kylecouch wrote...
The story of the DR can continue without the Warden being there without causeing too much fuss. However if you add the Warden into the equation the US people will raise hell (and rightfuly so) that basicly...their choice don't count. Is that honestly fair to that player base? No it's not, the DR people can still get their conclusion without the Warden being there to ****** off those who made the US.

Ok, the US had its conclusion and finality- you made that choice to kill off your Warden. Bravo. The DR choice is predicated on the notion that it keeps your Warden alive. But whats the point in that if the Warden simply vanishes and is never heard from again or likewise relegated to some cameo or codex entry? You ****** all over the DR choice and in effect impose the US fate on the DR warden.

Never mind the fact that there is the Orlesian Warden for the US people to play with should a Warden be necessary in the future to play as.

kylecouch wrote...
Just because the Warden made that choice in the DR does not mean they HAVE to be there whenever something involved in the DR happens.

No, it doesn't. But it would likely be a hell of lot more intriguing and gripping if the Warden that did the DR WAS there when **** hit the fan regarding Morrigan and the OGB and the DR, considering they were the ones that set that ball rolling in the first place. Having the DR Warden involved in the resolution of Morrigan's story or the OGB plot makes for a much more compelling and personal story.

kylecouch wrote...
Morrigan disappears for a reason, she does not want you to interfear. Ever think there might be a reason for that?

You know, except for the fact that the Warden tracks down Morrrigan in WItch Hunt and can sort of disappear into the Eluvian right with her, should the Warden have romanced her? Yeah.

kylecouch wrote...
If you were a US player would you want your choice totaly ignored simply to appeal to a fan base that does not share your choice when it wasn't nessisary to write your choice off as "non-canon"?

Yeah, I have some US wardens. And yes, I'd like to have my bastard Orlesian have to deal with the consequences of gutting Morrigan directly in the future, not simply have some bitter version of Morrigan angrily shake her fist at the world because some Warden stabbed her.

Obviously a ton is predicated on the overall plot of when Morrigan returns and how much time has passed. But no matter what, Morrigan, up to this point, is heavily involved with the Wardens. Just ignoring any personal character development between the Warden and Morrigan, she is heavily involved with the Wardens:

- She goes off with the Wardens to do the DR
- The whole point with the DR is that she get a Grey Warden to knock her up to get an Old God's soul
- The Wardens have a vested interest in the fate of the Old Gods
- The whole premise for Witch Hunt is that the First Warden wants to know more about the role Morrigan and Flemeth played in the last Blight, as their role "has caused a great deal of concern to the First Warden."
- Morrigan says to the Orlesian in Witch Hunt:

Morrigan: 'Tis Flemeth you should beware of not me. Hunt her, if you hunt anyone.
Orlesian: Did she have something to do with the Blight?
Morrigan: Perhaps more than even you would believe.

- Morrigan personally  warns the Warden of the coming "change"

Go, Tell your Wardens to be wary. Tell them to watch for what is to come.

- So even in the most emotionally detached sense, the Wardens seem to play heavily in Morrigan's plans and/or the coming big "change."

So given all that and add on any of the personal interactions with Morrigan, whether in Origins or even as the Orlesian in Witch Hunt, I don't think its crazy to think that having the Warden (Hero of Ferelden or Orlesian) interact with her again when her plan or the "change" hits its stride, wouldn't be a pretty damn cool moment. You want to play up delayed consequences? Here is your chance.

Of course, it doesn't have to be the Warden, but given how everything has been built up so far, it would be damn cool if it was the Warden interacting with Morrigan in the future. WHat would be neat and different for BioWare, would be to have multiple protagonists- have some new Hero Guy PC maybe for DA3 and have a branching plot, where maybe Hero Guy meets Morrigan sans Warden for a bit and they go separate ways, like Frodo/Sam and Gandalf/Aragorn, everyone else in LotR. So that at some point in the story, when Morrigan is maybe off on her own, the Warden, now tied up in this "change" or continuing their investigation for the First Warden or finding her after having gone off on some mission she gave when in Mirror World, they meet up with the POV switching to the Warden as PC.

Of course, the Warden reappearing is pretty slim anyway, unless they go back to the silent PC which is pretty doubtful, so its all for naught really...

[TheRevanchist]

Don't take my rants the wrong way...I would like to see her story continue, but not at the expense of other players choices. Not everyone did the DR, not everyone romanced Morrigan, hell all Warden's weren't even Male! This discusion seems to want favoritetism cast upon a certin audience and just to hell with all the others.

[KnightofPhoenix]

kylecouch wrote...
How so? the dude is freakin dead! No one comes back from death without a lame ass ret-con. Bringing the Warden back DOES make the US non-canon. Ret-cons are...imo...a poor way to tell storys and thats exactly what would happen if he just magicly "comes back to life" so DR/romance people can have their presious Warden back. Granted their is the exception of Warden's that go through the Eluvian, however...again...building upon that is making the US people not important becuase there Warden does not live to do that.

In the event the Warden does come back in a future game, it can have something similar to Awakening where there is a specific "origin" where you are not THE Warden, just someone else.
Not sure how plausible that is for a full sized game vs an expansion, but in theory it doesn't sound implausible.

Let's face it, if one of the major choices are to be expanded upon to their fullest potential, some choices have to be sacrifriced to free up space, time and ressources. Since the US is a definite closure to the story (so there is nothing to expand upon), while the DR and especially following Morrigan can (but doesn't have to) be expanded upon and has a lot of potential. So it's a no-brainer which ending should be sacrificed, based purely on the potential story each choice / ending can produce.

Yes, it's frustrating. Yes, that's a prime weakness of having way too many choices.
And the way I see it, either one choice has to be ignored in favor of the other, or we could try to appease both choices, which will be meeh all around due to practical considerations (limited ressources) and reduce the impact of such choices like following Morrigan through the mirror, or even the importance of the DR itself (if the OGB turns out to be, in the larger scheme of things, inconsequential then the DR is not that relevent).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 23 novembre 2010 - 05:30 .

[Anarya]

David Gaider wrote...

Not so. Though the more I talk about this, the less I want to accomodate anyone. Christ almighty.

Get this man some coffee! 

[ErichHartmann]

David Gaider wrote...

Not so. Though the more I talk about this, the less I want to accomodate anyone. Christ almighty.

Sage advice for any armchair developers who think they know better.

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 23 novembre 2010 - 05:28 .

[Maconbar]

David Gaider wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
If you're concluding the DR story, then you're screwing the US players anyway, since their choice is being made non-canon.

If there's no Warden and the OGB is either non existant, or necessarily tangential to the plot, then what's the point of bringing Morrigan back? What's so compelling that it justifies screwing up those wardens who actually care what happens with Morrigan?

That really depends on why Morrigan returns, doesn't it? The assumption that the nature of her return would have to "screw" anyone is simply panic talk-- as is the idea that we'd have to ignore player decisions in order to accomplish it.... no less so than the idea that the only reason to have her return would be to offer something to players who had a relationship with Morrigan/did the DR/went through the mirror with her in WH.

Not so. Though the more I talk about this, the less I want to accomodate anyone. Christ almighty.

But without the panic talk these boards would be kind of boring most of the time.

[Brockololly]

David Gaider wrote...

Though the more I talk about this, the less I want to accomodate anyone. Christ almighty.

Will a steady supply of bribes, cookies, and darkspawn plushies put you in a more accomodating frame of mind?:DI make some mean white chocolate chip macadamia nut cookies=]

[Arthur Cousland]

A simple expansion to properly close the book on Origins couldn't have hurt. Instead they want to rush DA2 out and possibly leave questions unanswered, instead of releasing the planned 2 years of dlc for Origins. So much content was cut from Origins to get the game out, and now they seem to be killing off Origins and the warden to make way for DA2. It would have been nice to see Origins with the cut out content still in the game, such as being able to recruit Shale in Redcliffe, instead of Honnleath, which becomes a ghost town afterwards. Hopefully DA2 will get a full lifespan and DA3 won't be arriving while people want more DA2 content.



This is the problem with having multiple endings where people can either kill off the pc or let them continue on, as well as the multiple romance choices. No matter what happens with DA2, people are going to be upset.



I think the main issue is that many people simply aren't done with Origins yet. We get attatched to our wardens and want to see more of them, but instead of getting more dlc or having the warden continue their journey into the sequel, we're supposed to forget about them and move on with a completely different character. Maybe we'll like Hawke so much that we forget about our wardens. Maybe not. I guess the fact that many people care so much shows that Origins had such well written characters, for people to not want to let go. We'll just have to see what happens in DA2. Maybe we'll all be as attached to the new crew.

[Blastback]

Some of the disapointment, for me anyway, may stem from how after Awakening, I figured the two years of DLC would tie things up and awnser the whole, remaining adventures to be had thing. Which didn't work out the way that we figured it would obviously.



I'm not trying to start a, "Bioware let us down by abandoning Origins for DA2" argument. I get, or at least think I do, the motive to focus on the next game. But I think some players had figured that the DLC would be used to tie up any loose ends in the first two stories and set up the next.



All that said, please don't take any of my post as a "This is how Bioware should tell this story or make this game". I get that creators of any kind need to make the product they want to make, rather than simply do whatever fans tell them. If Bioware takes the ideas and desires of the fans and can find a way to work them into their vision, great. If not, oh well. Some of us may be sad to see certain things diffrent than how we would like, but at the end of the day we do get a much higher quality product than mindless fan gratification.



Was my rambing even remotely coharent?

[Blastback]

Brockololly wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Though the more I talk about this, the less I want to accomodate anyone. Christ almighty.

Will a steady supply of bribes, cookies, and darkspawn plushies put you in a more accomodating frame of mind?:DI make some mean white chocolate chip macadamia nut cookies=]

I give good hugs.

[Toroi]

I personally didn't play Awakenings, because I liked the ending of DA:O well enough and the disappearing act of the Warden at the end of Awakenings made no sense to me and seemed more a let down than anything. My Warden was king at the end and he just dumps his wife and kingdom and heads out for no explained reason? Just wasn't interested, especially since his story was ending there, at least as a PC. I see the reason for leaving it so open ended, and perhaps it'll make sense in a future expansion, but I just found Awakenings, and especially its ending as very unsatisfying. I loved DA:O, however.



As for bringing the Warden back? Why? I'll have already played Hawke, and hopefully liked him as much as my original Warden. Will there be some compelling need to play my Warden again? I can't see it unless his mysterious disappearance has major plot significance, and even then, it could most likely be done with the Warden as an NPC.



Same thing goes with the Morrigan plot. I didn't play Witch Hunt and didn't romance her, but even if I had, maybe the Warden is back taking care of our two daughters while Morrigan reappears to do whatever major plot activities she needs to participate in. Heck, maybe the Warden has taken up architecture wherever he and Morrigan went to, and he's just to busy designing a new basketball stadium to go help Morrigan when she returns to Ferelden.



I liked my Warden and I was bummed enough about the lack of continuity with Awakenings - his companions didn't reappear and the end seemed just too inexplicable for me to care. I just see no point in the Warden ever being a PC again. I would love for this strange vanishing act at the end of Awakenings to be explained someday in a way that makes sense, but other than that, I've moved on.



Add in the level factor - the Warden is pretty darn tough by the end of Awakenings, especially. What challenge is left for him? Go find the Maker and kick his butt?

[TheRevanchist]

Brockololly wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Like David said...the Warden's story is already over, their story was The Blight and it's done. The DR is not the Warden's story it's Morrigan's story. I don't see any need to bring the Warden back because they are a Grey Warden, their job is done and they can enjoy life. On top of that bringing the Warden back is basicly a big middle finger to people like me who love the Ultimate Sacrifice ending.

RIght- the Warden's historical function of stopping the Archdemon and the Blight is over. End of that story. Thats like saying Luke Skywalker's story is done because he blew up the Death Star and can therefore do nothing else of not ever again.

The US really already got the middle finger with Awakening not being able to import the US Warden's world into the Orlesian's game. I don't agree with that and think it was a huge mistake, but there you go.

kylecouch wrote...
The destination is the same, the only thing thats different is the means of getting there.

The whole point in playing a game or reading a book or watching a movie is all that stuff in the middle- thats the stuff that matters and makes any ending hold any weight and resonance. Why bother if you're just skipping to the end to see what happens?

kylecouch wrote...
The story of the DR can continue without the Warden being there without causeing too much fuss. However if you add the Warden into the equation the US people will raise hell (and rightfuly so) that basicly...their choice don't count. Is that honestly fair to that player base? No it's not, the DR people can still get their conclusion without the Warden being there to ****** off those who made the US.

Ok, the US had its conclusion and finality- you made that choice to kill off your Warden. Bravo. The DR choice is predicated on the notion that it keeps your Warden alive. But whats the point in that if the Warden simply vanishes and is never heard from again or likewise relegated to some cameo or codex entry? You ****** all over the DR choice and in effect impose the US fate on the DR warden.

Never mind the fact that there is the Orlesian Warden for the US people to play with should a Warden be necessary in the future to play as.

kylecouch wrote...
Just because the Warden made that choice in the DR does not mean they HAVE to be there whenever something involved in the DR happens.

No, it doesn't. But it would likely be a hell of lot more intriguing and gripping if the Warden that did the DR WAS there when **** hit the fan regarding Morrigan and the OGB and the DR, considering they were the ones that set that ball rolling in the first place. Having the DR Warden involved in the resolution of Morrigan's story or the OGB plot makes for a much more compelling and personal story.

kylecouch wrote...
Morrigan disappears for a reason, she does not want you to interfear. Ever think there might be a reason for that?

You know, except for the fact that the Warden tracks down Morrrigan in WItch Hunt and can sort of disappear into the Eluvian right with her, should the Warden have romanced her? Yeah.

kylecouch wrote...
If you were a US player would you want your choice totaly ignored simply to appeal to a fan base that does not share your choice when it wasn't nessisary to write your choice off as "non-canon"?

Yeah, I have some US wardens. And yes, I'd like to have my bastard Orlesian have to deal with the consequences of gutting Morrigan directly in the future, not simply have some bitter version of Morrigan angrily shake her fist at the world because some Warden stabbed her.

Obviously a ton is predicated on the overall plot of when Morrigan returns and how much time has passed. But no matter what, Morrigan, up to this point, is heavily involved with the Wardens. Just ignoring any personal character development between the Warden and Morrigan, she is heavily involved with the Wardens:

- She goes off with the Wardens to do the DR
- The whole point with the DR is that she get a Grey Warden to knock her up to get an Old God's soul
- The Wardens have a vested interest in the fate of the Old Gods
- The whole premise for Witch Hunt is that the First Warden wants to know more about the role Morrigan and Flemeth played in the last Blight, as their role "has caused a great deal of concern to the First Warden."
- Morrigan says to the Orlesian in Witch Hunt:

Morrigan: 'Tis Flemeth you should beware of not me. Hunt her, if you hunt anyone.
Orlesian: Did she have something to do with the Blight?
Morrigan: Perhaps more than even you would believe.

- Morrigan personally  warns the Warden of the coming "change"

Go, Tell your Wardens to be wary. Tell them to watch for what is to come.

- So even in the most emotionally detached sense, the Wardens seem to play heavily in Morrigan's plans and/or the coming big "change."

So given all that and add on any of the personal interactions with Morrigan, whether in Origins or even as the Orlesian in Witch Hunt, I don't think its crazy to think that having the Warden (Hero of Ferelden or Orlesian) interact with her again when her plan or the "change" hits its stride, wouldn't be a pretty damn cool moment. You want to play up delayed consequences? Here is your chance.

Of course, it doesn't have to be the Warden, but given how everything has been built up so far, it would be damn cool if it was the Warden interacting with Morrigan in the future. WHat would be neat and different for BioWare, would be to have multiple protagonists- have some new Hero Guy PC maybe for DA3 and have a branching plot, where maybe Hero Guy meets Morrigan sans Warden for a bit and they go separate ways, like Frodo/Sam and Gandalf/Aragorn, everyone else in LotR. So that at some point in the story, when Morrigan is maybe off on her own, the Warden, now tied up in this "change" or continuing their investigation for the First Warden or finding her after having gone off on some mission she gave when in Mirror World, they meet up with the POV switching to the Warden as PC.

Of course, the Warden reappearing is pretty slim anyway, unless they go back to the silent PC which is pretty doubtful, so its all for naught really...

Believe me I understand all of this. For the most part I am playing devil's advocit here for the sake of argument. But I was unimpressed with the Orlaisin Warden. I didn't WANT to import the character of my US, I only wanted to import the DATA so the story I created would still count and be able to continue playing a beliveable story without facepalming myself over a preposterous ret-con that wasn't needed.

I hate ret-cons with a passion. While I understand never having The Warden back is wrong to those to lived. Having the Warden make a dramatic return is still wrong to those that didn't live. It does not have to be THE Warden as long as The Grey Warden's as a whole are still involved imo.

[Merced652]

I think you guys will be much more satisfied if you just forgot morrigan ever existed. No matter what they do it will not do the story line justice because they have to account for player decisions, even incredibly unpopular ones. She might as well not exist. And heres where david is showing noting more than bravado from that standpoint; her character is so poorly done outside of the romance/DR that any attempt to make her more important than she is initially portrayed depreciates if not outright destroys the warden's story.

I'll be content that the only way they can do it will essentially be boiled down to "a wizard did it." Meaning she only becomes an important plot character again through discovery of some obscure object that will somehow be relevant to whatever half assed character they have you playing.

Modifié par Merced652, 23 novembre 2010 - 06:00 .

[Maconbar]

Merced652 wrote...

I think you guys will be much more satisfied if you just forgot morrigan ever existed. No matter what they do it will not do the story line justice because they have to account for player decisions, even incredibly unpopular ones. She might as well not exist. And heres where david is showing noting more than bravado from that standpoint; her character is so poorly done outside of the romance/DR that any attempt to make her more important than she is initially portrayed depreciates if not outright destroys the warden's story.

I'll be content that the only way they can do it will essentially be boiled down to "a wizard did it." Meaning she only becomes an important plot character again through discovery of some obscure object that will somehow be relevant to whatever half assed character they have you playing.

Please explain how Morrigan's continued presence in the overall DA story arc destroys the warden's story.