724 réponses à ce sujet

[TJPags]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

I'm sure the warden will be back; Those errands wont run themselves.

If my chap hadn't bought it fighting an ancient god he would apparently have taken up an administrative position within the Warden hierachy and gotten involved in local politics.

That is definitely gameplay I want to see more of within RPGs. Bookeeping, minor dispute resolution, court gossip. Tell me there isn't potential there?

I can just see it now "Warden, that baker didn't complete his request for flour in triplicate.  Can you do something about that?"

[Dama Oscura]

Is just sad and annoying to take all your effort to the trash can... I mean why do even bother on give to the player the opportunity to create your own warden if in the end this is not going to matter... if Bioware wanted to "lead the history" as they wish... they sould gave us a default character from the very begining...

[Perfect-Kenshin]

Most of Bioware's decisions are made for the sole purpose of annoying the fanbase (especially the ones who go to the forums). They find forumites' rage and fury far more valuable than profit.

Modifié par Perfect-Kenshin, 26 novembre 2010 - 04:20 .

[TJPags]

Yes, I'm sure they decided to use Hawke as the main character rather than the Warden because they wanted to alienate their fanbase.

[Morroian]

Dama Oscura wrote...

Is just sad and annoying to take all your effort to the trash can... I mean why do even bother on give to the player the opportunity to create your own warden if in the end this is not going to matter...

Defeating the blight doesn't matter?

[Perfect-Kenshin]

Morroian wrote...

Dama Oscura wrote...

Is just sad and annoying to take all your effort to the trash can... I mean why do even bother on give to the player the opportunity to create your own warden if in the end this is not going to matter...

Defeating the blight doesn't matter?

Not really. There are stilly plenty of Darkspawn and it's not like the Orlesian Wardens couldn't have taken care of it. Sure, Fereldent would be screwed, but who cares about them? Hawke is gonna be in the Free marches and Ferelden is full of idiots.

Modifié par Perfect-Kenshin, 26 novembre 2010 - 04:59 .

[Leonia]

The Blight would have spilled over into the Free Marches if it hadn't been finished off by the Warden. Just look at the codex entries about past Blights, most of them took place in more than one area of the world and lasted for several years (the first blight took two centuries to finish).

[Perfect-Kenshin]

leonia42 wrote...

The Blight would have spilled over into the Free Marches if it hadn't been finished off by the Warden. Just look at the codex entries about past Blights, most of them took place in more than one area of the world and lasted for several years (the first blight took two centuries to finish).

Riordan said the Orlesian Wardens would've gotten there after Ferelden's destruction if everyone opted to wait for them. The free Marches make have had some Darkspawn to tangle with, but nowhere near enough to be considered conquered.

[Morroian]

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Defeating the blight doesn't matter?

Not really. There are stilly plenty of Darkspawn and it's not like the Orlesian Wardens couldn't have taken care of it. Sure, Fereldent would be screwed, but who cares about them? Hawke is gonna be in the Free marches and the country is full of idiots.

Really, in previous blights which have gone unchecked they lasted 100 years.

[Perfect-Kenshin]

Morroian wrote...

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Defeating the blight doesn't matter?

Not really. There are stilly plenty of Darkspawn and it's not like the Orlesian Wardens couldn't have taken care of it. Sure, Fereldent would be screwed, but who cares about them? Hawke is gonna be in the Free marches and the country is full of idiots.

Really, in previous blights which have gone unchecked they lasted 100 years.

I'm going by what Riodan said. The orlesian Wardens would have been able to get to the darkspawn, but just not in time to save Ferelden. It wouldn't have gone unchecked.

Honestly, I don't see how slaying the Archdemon can even be considered that big of a big deal. You had four people close up shop on an army of Darkspawn in Denerim, thwart the Archdemon's generals and even take down the Archdemon itself. Just FOUR people.   Sure, Ferelden's army was fighting the darkspawn outside the city, but still. Just imagine if a whole army of Wardens were there. 

Modifié par Perfect-Kenshin, 26 novembre 2010 - 05:05 .

[TJPags]

So, what exactly is your complaint? That the darkspawn were defeated, that the blight wasn't a big enough deal, or that the blight didn't reach kirkwall?

[Sigil_Beguiler123]

Well it is fairly obviously there is main character luck on the Warden's side. Plus as well this wasn't at full Blight level yet. By the time the Orlesian Warden's got to Ferelden things would be a lot tougher. The Warden managed to stop the Blight before it truly began.

[Perfect-Kenshin]

TJPags wrote...

So, what exactly is your complaint? That the darkspawn were defeated, that the blight wasn't a big enough deal, or that the blight didn't reach kirkwall?

I have no complaint here. I'm just happen to disagree with the other poster on the matter of the Warden's accomplishment being that big of a deal.

[Morroian]

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

I'm going by what Riodan said. The orlesian Wardens would have been able to get to the darkspawn, but just not in time to save Ferelden. It wouldn't have gone unchecked.

And Cailan thought he could stop them as well, look how well that turned out. Nothing a character says can be taken at face value.

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

Honestly, I don't see how slaying the Archdemon can even be considered that big of a big deal. You had four people close up shop on an army of Darkspawn in Denerim, thwart the Archdemon's generals and even take down the Archdemon itself. Just FOUR people.   Sure, Ferelden's army was fighting the darkspawn outside the city, but still. Just imagine if a whole army of Wardens were there. 

There were armies of Dwarves, Elves and mages/templars as well. Darkspawn increase in number as time goes on and the land gets corrupted. Like I said previous blights have last much longer.

Besides your argument is an argument against DAO itself, not against DA2 for not seeming to place much value on what the Warden did.

[TJPags]

Ahhh, okay.



It was kind of the point of the first game, so in that respect, I disagree with you.



In the overall state of the world (earth, not thedas) no, it wasn't that big of a deal.

[Perfect-Kenshin]

Sigil_Beguiler123 wrote...

Well it is fairly obviously there is main character luck on the Warden's side.

Luck and the fact that the darkspawn are pretty incompetent (luck or not, there's no way 4 people should be able to best hundreds). The fact they even need the archdemon to be organized is a testament to their overall intelligence and fighting ability. I believe that even without the Warden, Loghain could have held off the blight long enough for the orlesian Wardens to show up. Remember, in the first Blight, they didn't have a problem with the Archdemon or the Darkspawn's overall killing efficiency. It was that they weren't aware that the archdemon could just keep coming back to life. Even if it's a full Blight, that's all the Darkspawn really have going for them. I don't blame Loghain for thinking that Ferelden didn't need Wardens to defend itself.

[Ziggeh]

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

TJPags wrote...

So, what exactly is your complaint? That the darkspawn were defeated, that the blight wasn't a big enough deal, or that the blight didn't reach kirkwall?

I have no complaint here. I'm just happen to disagree with the other poster on the matter of the Warden's accomplishment being that big of a deal.

Several times the Blights are talked about as if they're the direst of threats, that they have in the past brought mankind to the brink of destruction. I'm not sure it's like an infestation of termites. Blight living in your dry wall? Not to worry, the Wardens will soon clear that up. Soon as they get there, it's all fine and dandy.

Plus, as there can only be seven of them, the Warden put a stop to 14% of a threat that has ended empires.

That's kind of a big deal. I'm not sure how much more you expect a hero to do.

[Kroaks]

Morroian wrote...

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

I'm going by what Riodan said. The orlesian Wardens would have been able to get to the darkspawn, but just not in time to save Ferelden. It wouldn't have gone unchecked.

And Cailan thought he could stop them as well, look how well that turned out. Nothing a character says can be taken at face value.

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...

Honestly, I don't see how slaying the Archdemon can even be considered that big of a big deal. You had four people close up shop on an army of Darkspawn in Denerim, thwart the Archdemon's generals and even take down the Archdemon itself. Just FOUR people.   Sure, Ferelden's army was fighting the darkspawn outside the city, but still. Just imagine if a whole army of Wardens were there. 

There were armies of Dwarves, Elves and mages/templars as well. Darkspawn increase in number as time goes on and the land gets corrupted. Like I said previous blights have last much longer.

Besides your argument is an argument against DAO itself, not against DA2 for not seeming to place much value on what the Warden did.

Riodan though was fairly knowledgable about the darkspawn in comparison to Cailan though.  And lets be honest if Loghain hadn't cut out on him, who knows how it would have gone.

On the flip side wasn't there a group of warden's there besides you/the newbs and Duncan?  I don't recall them being shown fighting but I'm pretty sure there was a reference to a group of them being there.

Though; thats a small group versus an army.

And we don't know that Ferelden would have been totally overwhelmed by the time the orlesians got there, the various groups, Dwarves, elves, were-wolves etc...all still existed and even not having been totally organized would have still been putting up effort to fight back after all.

[Perfect-Kenshin]

Morroian wrote...

And Cailan thought he could stop them as well, look how well that turned out. Nothing a character says can be taken at face value.

Cailan was right. He could have stopped them. There was nothing wrong with his plan. It's just that there's no way he could have forseen that Loghain would betray him, withdraw his drops, therefore enabling the Darkspawn to flank him, Duncan and the few other Wardens who were there. I reckon that if he were at least expecting that treachery, he could have fleed the battle in time.

There were armies of Dwarves, Elves and mages/templars as well. Darkspawn increase in number as time goes on and the land gets corrupted. Like I said previous blights have last much longer.

Besides your argument is an argument against DAO itself, not against DA2 for not seeming to place much value on what the Warden did.

You're correct. I'm thinking of my playthroughs as I never call in any backup during that segment of the game, simply due to there being no need (at least to me) when having good tactics and good character builds.

And  yes, Darkspawn do increase in number as time goes on, but Riordan didn't hesitate in believing that the Orlesian Wardens could handle the job. As for the amount of time previous Blights have lasted, I only recall the first Blight lasting long (and that was because they didn't have a means to kill the arch demon). It's possible that other Blights lasted longer than the most recent one, but it doesn't seem likely that darkspawn were particularly smarter or more powerful then. It's more likely that they just happened to arise in a place/time where Wardens were weren't immediately available. Our Warden was just fortunate that the Arch Demon was present with the army it had sent into Denerim. Otherwise, the blight would have lasted longer.

I'm not arguing against DA2 or DAO for that matter. I'm just pointing out that I'm not convinced the Warden is even that big of a deal. Of course, this goes back to how I view Warden's conceptually. Unlike other games where the lead character has some special power/ability which no one else has, the Warden here is just like every other Warden; he/she can sense darkspawn and kill the archdemon. Don't get me wrong. This didn't take away from my enjoyment of the first game's plot, but I'm just not that impressed with Wardens, considering there are so many and there's not much special about being one. The fact of the matter is that any other Warden could have done what our Warden did. Sure, he stopped a Blight, but it's expected. A police officer can arrest an arsonist, but I'm not going to say "Wow, you're amazing." I'm gonna nod and move on.

[errant_knight]

Yep, there were all the wardens in Ferelden, not as numerous as those in Orlais, but not insignificant. Enough that Alistair couldn't remember one's name when telling the PC about a bet. They died along with Cailan, Duncan, and the troops that were with them. If you look at all the torches in the background behind Loghain and Cautherin when he tells her to retreat, the army that was supposed to reinforce them once they'd drawn the darkspawn in was absolutely enormous.

[Leonia]

Well, yeah The Warden isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, but don't downplay what they accomplished. Stopping a Blight before it truly began is not something to sneeze at.



And there aren't *that* many Wardens in the world, remember people thought the Fourth Blight was the last blight for a long time and the glory days of the Wardens are over. But the Fifth Blight proved they are still needed and useful in the world.

[Perfect-Kenshin]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Several times the Blights are talked about as if they're the direst of threats, that they have in the past brought mankind to the brink of destruction. I'm not sure it's like an infestation of termites. Blight living in your dry wall? Not to worry, the Wardens will soon clear that up. Soon as they get there, it's all fine and dandy.

Plus, as there can only be seven of them, the Warden put a stop to 14% of a threat that has ended empires.

That's kind of a big deal. I'm not sure how much more you expect a hero to do.

Don't get me wrong. I fully agree that Blights are a big threat to the World. The Arch Demon is nigh-invincible and can manipulate Darkspawn (who seem to always be able to amassed into large armies). Potentially, they could destroy Thedas. That said, even thought the threat is dire, Thedas has never succumbed to one (even when they didn't know how to stop the archdemon). In the first Blight, we had non-Wardens killing the Archdemon over and over again. The Blight is a threat, but it is easily manageable. The Darkspawn may be great in numbers, but they are also incompetent (even with the Archdemon guiding them) and their leader always manages to expose itself in a way where any single Warden can take it out. As long as you have at least one Warden and a decent army, the darkspawn is nothing to worry about.

The Warden ended another Blight and that is rather impressive, but since any other Warden could have done so (hell, in the game, it doesn't even have to be your Warden who takes out the Archdemon), it's impressive like winning the lottery is impressive.

[Perfect-Kenshin]

leonia42 wrote...

Well, yeah The Warden isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, but don't downplay what they accomplished. Stopping a Blight before it truly began is not something to sneeze at.

And there aren't *that* many Wardens in the world, remember people thought the Fourth Blight was the last blight for a long time and the glory days of the Wardens are over. But the Fifth Blight proved they are still needed and useful in the world.

Didn't Riordan say there was a group of thousands located on the other side of Thedas? I think there are a lot of Wardens (I don't see why not, since the process of becoming a Warden can be repeated by anyone). It's just that they are spread out thin across Thedas.

[Brockololly]

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...
The Warden ended another Blight and that is rather impressive, but since any other Warden could have done so (hell, in the game, it doesn't even have to be your Warden who takes out the Archdemon), it's impressive like winning the lottery is impressive.

Which is why the Dark Ritual Warden is even more impressive as he/she is the ONLY Warden to defeat a Blight while surviving.

[Herr Uhl]

Brockololly wrote...

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...
The Warden ended another Blight and that is rather impressive, but since any other Warden could have done so (hell, in the game, it doesn't even have to be your Warden who takes out the Archdemon), it's impressive like winning the lottery is impressive.

Which is why the Dark Ritual Warden is even more impressive as he/she is the ONLY Warden to defeat a Blight while surviving.

That isn't the warden's achievement, it is Flemeth's.