724 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

I rarely played gung ho Wardens. As the game says, the taint enforces a certain stance on you, not any affiliation with an order. The darkspawn are a reality for a Warden even if you give Weisshaupt the finger. They'll find you and you'll have to fight them or join them. Awakening at least gave you options for the latter. It simply isn't true that you have to rp a Warden loyalist.

[greekmonkey95]

Matchy Pointy wrote...

greekmonkey95 wrote...

I think everything is tied together some how. Hawke, our Warden, and other things are all tied together. If we dont see our Warden character again in a different story of course i'll be sad, but I trust Gaider and the Bioware team. BUT you guys better bring back the Warden and Morrigan's God baby!

All I can say to this is that for my first Warden atleast, Morrigan's God baby does not even exist, so please, don't bring that back like that.

you dont have to buy the DLC for the whole god baby thing if  they make it. if you didnt do the dark ritual, dont buy the DLC and stop complaining.

[In Exile]

darrylzero wrote...

But I think you're overstating the extent to which the character is overwritten.  I know that I'm a little less hostile to the Wardens than you are (though I appreciate your stance), but I felt pretty comfortable believing that my Warden is willing to serve as Warden Commander instrumentally while searching for another option.  It's true that there's no option to actively antagonize the Wardens as an organization, but I don't agree that you're forced to take their goals as your own.

The problem is that the mindset internalizes the identity. I'll point to an example of this in a second.

My stance is that, basically, Duncan infects me with a horrible curse against my will. Even if I willingly join the Grey Wardens, there is still the secret curse disease portion of the ritual, which you are executed for if you refuse to partake.

Thinking about it in terms of "my obligation extends past the blight" is Grey Warden thinking. Looking at it as "I was cursed by a cuthroat old man, but now is the time to try and free myself," is just something not even considered.

Addai67 wrote...

I rarely played gung ho Wardens. As the
game says, the taint enforces a certain stance on you, not any
affiliation with an order. The darkspawn are a reality for a Warden
even if you give Weisshaupt the finger. They'll find you and you'll
have to fight them or join them. Awakening at least gave you options
for the latter. It simply isn't true that you have to rp a Warden
loyalist.

Short of every darkspawn everywhere chasing the Warden down, they're not just not even a threat.

You're assuming that you're going to have a character who is looking at the taint as something to accept instead of something to try and cure at all costs.

This is what I mean by internalizing the identity of the Grey Wardens.

[AlanC9]

In Exile wrote...
No. I'm complaining that Bioware wrote a story only for one particular kind of Warden. That's it. If you want to continue the story, you have to RP a single character. You can't RP anything other than a Warden sympathizer and loyalist. 

Is this a bad thing always, or only with a full game or an expansion? I didn't mind that WH isn't really compelling for a Warden who didn't romance Morrigan, since if I didn't have such a Warden I wouldn't have DLd it in the first place.

[In Exile]

AlanC9 wrote...
Is this a bad thing always, or only with a full game or an expansion? I didn't mind that WH isn't really compelling for a Warden who didn't romance Morrigan, since if I didn't have such a Warden I wouldn't have DLd it in the first place.

I think as a side DLC, Witch Hunt works. Not as a ''conclusion'' by any stretch, even if well executed.

The thing is, look at ME2. Lair of the Shadow broker is partly a Liara romance DLC. But it's plot is centered around something Shepard would be interested in, particularly because the Shadow Broker was working with the Collector to collect Shepard's body, via those comics and Liara's speech when you meet her.

I think that was a good way to play it. You could get closure with Liara... but you also have a good reason to stop the Shadow Broker (indirectly working for the repears).

I think, honestly, the problem with DA:A really a result of the core problem of the origins in DA:O. Fundamentally, an RPG requires some buy in from the player. The thing is, in DA:O that buy in isn't stopping the blight. It's actually being and adopting the identity of a Grey Warden. The problem is that the origin is this other life entirely, and you get absolutely no pitch within the origin to independently motivate you to become a Warden. You get dragged kicking and screaming (potentially) and the rest of the game flows as if you want and care to be a Warden.

Contrast this with Mass Effect, where even when Shepard gets conscripted as a Spectre, there is still the option to work for the Alliance instead of for the greater benefit of the Council. Might be Udina who says this, but the line ''You were a human long before you were a Spectre'' really works well to capture the mindset of different Shepards.

Not everyone is just going to throw out their identity if they're basically drafted into an order. But DA:O needed this to work with how the story was set up.

ETA:

So to answer your question, I don't think assuming motivation is bad. It just has to be a motivation the game always assumed (i.e. Shepard wanting to stop the repears).

Modifié par In Exile, 10 janvier 2011 - 04:51 .

[darrylzero]

In Exile wrote...

My stance is that, basically, Duncan infects me with a horrible curse against my will. Even if I willingly join the Grey Wardens, there is still the secret curse disease portion of the ritual, which you are executed for if you refuse to partake.

Thinking about it in terms of "my obligation extends past the blight" is Grey Warden thinking. Looking at it as "I was cursed by a cuthroat old man, but now is the time to try and free myself," is just something not even considered.

In Exile wrote...

You're assuming that you're going to have a character who is looking at
the taint as something to accept instead of something to try and cure at
all costs.



This is what I mean by internalizing the identity of the Grey Wardens.

To be clear, I know from reading what you've written about this elsewhere that the character you want to play is broken.  And I think that's too bad, partially but not only because I can imagine myself wanting to play a similar character (at least vis-a-vis his/her feelings about Duncan and the Wardens).  However, I still think you tend to dismiss the variety of motivations a character might have for sticking with the Wardens, at least for a while.

Rather than hatred or outrage, my characters tend to feel a profound ambivalence toward Duncan and the Wardens.  The character that best reflects the role-playing experience I wanted, a city elf,* feels a certain grattitude for being saved from the dungeons by Duncan alongside resentment at being forced to become tainted.  He was not thrilled with becoming a Warden in the first place, so he definitely bears some hostility to the Wardens as an organization.  However, perhaps because your irritatation (outrage?) at the secrecy of the Wardens does not resonate with me (because I share their suspicions about what society might think of -- and do about -- the hints of blood magic in the Joining), or perhaps because he does not expect to be treated well by institutions (which means the Grey Wardens are only one of the many organizations his hostility is directed at), he's not outraged that the Wardens do this in general.  He's just pissed he's in the situation.

But all my characters are constantly thinking about how they can get rid of the taint.  They keep Avernus alive, hoping he might be able to help (not trying to imply you do this, necessarily, just an example).  They are noncommittal in the epilogue about what they'll do now that the blight is over end, because none of the options really seems quite right (and because my characters -- unlike yours, from what I understand -- tend to be pretty cagey anyway).  And when they agree to serve as Warden Commander, they do so planning to spend that time searching for a cure for the taint, which as far as they know may or may not exist.

The big difference, I suspect, is that my characters tend to feel much more vulnerable vis-a-vis society in general than yours do.  I may be hero of Fereldan today, but who knows when those racist humans might turn on me.  That's why Allistair has to be on the throne, no matter what I think of him, because at least I know I can trust him (unless, maybe, I become too openly hostile to the Wardens).  And it's part of why I so badly wish that helping out the smugglers in Amaranthine had been more interesting (got to have an independent power base and source of wealth).  Once I'm there, dealing with the present darkspawn threat is the immediate priority.  Getting rid of the taint becomes a future goal (though if the Architect had offered to help, that would have been mighty interesting).

I don't expect you to agree that this is an interesting way to play Awakening, just that it's quite distinct from internalizing the Wardens goals as your own (with the possible exception of being concerned enough by talking darkspawn that you investigate the situation once you're there).  That's my point.  I agree to help instrumentally, not because I particularly share the Wardens' goals but because I'm a little worried about how human society is going to treat me and it seems like a reasonable thing to do for now while I look around for other options.  After all, who even knows if I can get rid of the taint (apart from Fiona, who I haven't met).

I think your posts have tended to conflate the above with becoming a gung-ho Warden.  I think there are really big differences, and if I were forced to fully internalize my identity as Warden by the game, it would feel much worse to me than it does.  I recognize that it may not have helped you be the character you wanted to be, but I don't think you do justice to the variety of attitudes that are possible to role-play without distorting the information the game gives you.


*  I would have preferred to play as human, but not at the price of being a noble.

[Todd23]

After playing WH, I've notified that it is, in fact, not an ending by any means. No matter what your warden did in DA:O, or how his conversation goes with Morrigan at the eluvian, it ends in a cliff hanger.

[Azazel005]

KOTOR spoilers will follow, be advised should you not wish to expierence such.



Reading this thread reminds me a great deal of my Kotor expierence and my 'Revan'. In that story I became very attatched to my Revan, his return to the Jedi Order his collapse back into the Dark Side on Korriban and his final redemption refuing to to submit to total darkness atop the monument after battling with Bastilla. Sparing Malak saving the Republic and ... disappearing...?



At first I was mortified not be able to continue his story, he had developed so much for me that I wanted to continue to expierence the world through his eyes. Stil even before the sequel had hit shelves I had come to abhor the idea of him being used in another story, how could they capture and accomadate for the expierences I had? What stories could he be involved in that wouldn't make it feel like some tacky made for TV sequel?The most significant things in his character had already happened whatever he was doing my part as the player was done. I had built played and expierenced him as much as I could, and trusted my character to go into the wild unknown.



I feel similar about the Warden, though not as strongly, and I do have three of them one who performed the Dark Ritual with Morrigan. However that turns out, however his tenure as Queens Consort turns out, however my other character and Leliana turn out I trust the characters I have made to make the best of it. Contextually I would be upset if the result of the Dark Ritual doesn't have some reference to my character (in the case that he was involved) likewise if I played a female Warden whom married Alistair I would be extremely upset should a child come to be from that if my character didn't have some connection.



Still those issues are more to do with what would come of the characters children, and would be their stories less then my Warden's. The blight has ended the guy deserves a break before the calling .

[Huntress]

Oh my warden want a Break alright, more necks! come on...

[The Night Haunter]

DSerpa wrote...

Is this thread still going? If the writers decide to bring back the Warden, then I'm sure they can think of something clever. Or at least something plausible. Dead Wardens fight their way out of the Fade, living Wardens use something like the Mirror of Transformation (DA2 pre-order item), etc.

If they don't bring back the Warden, then I hope his/her story is resolved in some way. I'd even take a codex entry. I just hope we get some kind of resolution, and not the "Oh, the Warden fell down a flight of stairs off camera and died" resolution.

No, it has been reanimated.

[MemeLeigh]

I hope our warden's story isn't over. I want to see my elven mage again... with her Zevran by her side.

Modifié par MemeLeigh, 24 janvier 2011 - 06:05 .

[Kenjimaster666]

My Warden is immortal. 'Nuff said.

[ace100000]

what about the warden returning as an antagonist in DA3. That would be cool and it may make it easier for bioware since they can do whatever they want with him/her.

[kreite]

personally for me as long as they reference my warden as a hero who's savin people somewhere else, for the first few parts of da2 I'll be happy.

[Night Prowler76]

If the Warden doesnt return at some point, the series will lose alot of its luster, for me anyways.

[JamesX]

Warden cannot be brought back without an Canon Ending. Which Bioware said does not exist. Until that changes, the Warden's story is over.

[Night Prowler76]

JamesX wrote...

Warden cannot be brought back without an Canon Ending. Which Bioware said does not exist. Until that changes, the Warden's story is over.

Unless your the creative lead for DA you dont know that for certain, plus things change, BioWare likes money like most companies, they can write characters how they choose even if it negates previous decisions.

[ace100000]

kreite wrote...

personally for me as long as they reference my warden as a hero who's savin people somewhere else, for the first few parts of da2 I'll be happy.

I may be wrong but i am guessing that would not happen a lot since most of your journey from lothering to freemarches goes by in a cut scene covering the first year. I read this bit  in some preview people had posted in different forums here.

[Todd23]

Does any one else get that tingly feeling when thinking that DA3's story could be being worked on right now?

[Redhawkdown]

Or they could just turn DA into an MMO. They did it with Kotor. Just saying..

[Collider]

Cazlee wrote...

Now that DA:O is concluded, will we be able to play our warden ever again? Will we hear about our warden's future activities in DA2 while we play Hawke or is warden's chapter completely over?

I'm inclined to say no, given the blatant foreshadowing in (some) of the epilogues.

[Icinix]

Redhawkdown wrote...

Or they could just turn DA into an MMO. They did it with Kotor. Just saying..

..and that single game will be what BioWare will be judged on for all time...it's the most stupidly ambitious game ever...anything less than record setting will be a failure...

I doubt they'll be too eager to commit to two (or potentially three) MMO's anytime in the next decade.

[Collider]

Just imagine the endless comparisons to WoW.

[Icinix]

If I was working on TOR, I'd be having nightmares about those comparisons. No matter how hard they try to be different or unique..there is still so many tid bits floating around the internet that say "Similar to WOW.." etc etc. They're really throwing themselves into the fray. At the very least, at least they've had the balls to say RIGHT...lets just go hell for leather here.