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[Wulfram]

Itkovian wrote...
Why is that?

The Warden is just that: a Grey Warden. If the events in Kirkwall (which is, after all, outside of Ferelden - and DAO has clearly emphatized the Warden's attachment to Ferelden) have nothing to do with Darkspawn, why would he be involved?

The Warden has his own duties after all, and solving wars in other countries is not one of them.

Half of the origins are from outside Ferelden, so there's no reason to believe they'd be especially attached to it, and even if they are Kirkwall is very much local.

Given what Varric said in the trailer, the fate of the whole world is hanging in the balance.  I can't see any of my wardens shrugging their shoulders and saying "Meh.  I only handle darkspawn."

The Origins PC certainly isn't limited to only doing warden things.  After all, they can finish the game being King,Queen, Chancellor, Teyrn or Bann of the Alienage, none of which fit with the traditional role of the Wardens

[Jezcentral]

I get the feeling that our Warden, if he/she survived the game, is down n the deep roads by now.



If you want more story, you'll have to put your modding hat on, and get to work.

[Wulfram]

Jezcentral wrote...

I get the feeling that our Warden, if he/she survived the game, is down n the deep roads by now.

DA2 starts just after Ostagar and covers 10 years, so the Warden will still have 20 years before their calling.

[errant_knight]

Yep, the warden has a lot of time left, and that's without considering all the hints in various places that a cure for the taint may be possible. Speaking of mods, anyone who hasn't tried 'The Confederacy of Malkuth' really should. It's amazingly well done, hours of gameplay, and just the first part of a very large story.

[Itkovian]

Wulfram wrote...

Half of the origins are from outside Ferelden, so there's no reason to believe they'd be especially attached to it, and even if they are Kirkwall is very much local.

Given what Varric said in the trailer, the fate of the whole world is hanging in the balance.  I can't see any of my wardens shrugging their shoulders and saying "Meh.  I only handle darkspawn."

The Origins PC certainly isn't limited to only doing warden things.  After all, they can finish the game being King,Queen, Chancellor, Teyrn or Bann of the Alienage, none of which fit with the traditional role of the Wardens

True, but all those roles are centered on Ferelden anyway.

But regardless, I think it is safe to assume that the Warden, if he survived DAO at all (a big if, as I'm sure a lot of players, like me, chose the Ultimate Sacrifice ending), will be otherwise occupied with other matters during DA2.

The fact of the matter is that we are moving on to a new hero in DA2, who will step and perform his own acts of groundbreaking heroism (or villainy, I guess *grin*). The Warden has already left his mark on Ferelden, and given that for many the Warden is dead it is unrealistic to expect any further significant involvement from him/her.

So, to answer the topic: the Warden's story is, for all intents and purposes, in fact over. He saved Thedas from a Blight, one of the greatest threats known to exist, and it is now time for a new hero to step forward. This is further supported by the fact that one of the main resolutions to DAO ends in the Warden's heroic death (indeed, about the most heroic death a Warden could hope for).

Of course, that doesn't mean that the Warden (for those who have him survive) will just sit in his fortress and brood on his past. No doubt he'll be out accomplishing things... but those things do not really need to be told. Just as in DAO we didn't hear about the heroic deeds of some powerful Orlaisian adventurer, in DA2 and beyond we don't need to know the further exploits of the Warden. Just that he lives on as whatever he became at the end of DAO , or died as an embodiment of Grey Warden ideals is all that we really need to know.

After all, not every story setting needs to be about the same hero all the time, and it is clear that Thedas is not one of them (the very fact that the Warden can die heroically at the end of DAO proves it). And now it is Hawke's time to step forward.

Thank you.

Itkovian

[Itkovian]

DSerpa wrote...

Just because some people killed the Warden doesn't mean that the Warden as a character is gone forever. I think the writers have proven themselves clever enough to craft a story wherein the Warden could be easily replaced by a new character. You'd just need to throw in a few lines of dialogue about the Warden's heroic deeds from characters who would recognize him/her. Whether or not they decide to is another matter.

I disagree.

Indeed, I argue that making the Ultimate Sacrifice a viable ending is a clear indication that they did not intend to further develop the Warden's story.

Furthermore, if they write situations were a new character could easily replace the Warden, then essentially you no longer have a meaningful continuation of the Warden's story. Then it just becomes a high-level adventure with a generic character, and whether or not he is the Warden is mostly irrelevant. For example, is Awakenings truly a continuation of the Warden's story?

Certainly, it's the same character which continues, but ultimately you can just put in a completely different character and it works just as well with a few lines of dialogue different (keep in mind I did import my "dead" character for a playthrough). At that point, when any generic character could step in the story, it hardly constitutes a continuation of the original character's journey.

Sure, they could make a sequel that directly focuses on the Warden's journey, on the choices made in DAO, for example a sequel focused on Morrigan's demon child. But at that point you then have a game that only caters to some DAO players.

In closing, my point is that in giving DAO such wildly differering conclusions, including the heroic sacrifice of the protagonist, Bioware had more than likely already decided to end the Warden's journey right there. Any continuation would either exclude a large fraction of the original players, or be so generic and diluted as to have little relation to the Warden's adventures in DAO.

Clearly, the fact that DA2 focuses on a new "iconic" hero indicates that Bioware feel the same way.

Thank you.

Itkovian

[ace100000]

if your warden goes through moriggan's dark ritual becomes a father of a GOD child and then there is no involvement of him in the upcoming games of dragon age.............well it would be a crappy story and you do not want a crappy story in a rpg

[DAO - Grey Warden]

it could come either way......we may or may not see the grey warden.....whether we will control him in future projects in dragon age universe or we will hear about his past acomplishments or that he is being seen with morrigan or leliana.....we will see, but the fact is we dont want bioware to erase him or disclude him from future dragon age projects.....

[Itkovian]

ace100000 wrote...

if your warden goes through moriggan's dark ritual becomes a father of a GOD child and then there is no involvement of him in the upcoming games of dragon age.............well it would be a crappy story and you do not want a crappy story in a rpg

Oh, I am sure that Morrigan's story is not finished, and we will hear more of it. But there is absolutely no requirement that the Warden be involved in that story in any shape or form, and it would not affect the quality of the story in any way, shape, or form.

The choice would remain, as would its consequences, but it could easily be Hawke who deals with them as the Warden. Indeed, there are innumerable ways it could involve someone other than the Warden (quick example: Morrigan's Evil God Child goes on a rampage in Nevarra, while your Warden is in Ferelden. If Hawke happens to be there at the time, he could deal with it).

But to be quite frank, I think it is almost a dead certainty that you will not see the Warden in future games, for purely practical reasons. For one thing, there's the problem that the Warden is different for everyone, with wildly different choices (including, of course, dead). He has no voice, in a game that is now completely VOed. And they have already moved on to an iconic hero.

And they're not going to make a sequel that caters to the fraction of players whose characters made the Dark Ritual.

More likely, they will come up with some plotline that involves Morrigan, where she either has the DR baby or some other problem that requires intervention (for those who didn't do the dark ritual), or perhaps she actually managed to get a Demon Child through some other method if your Warden turned her down. After all, clearly this is something Morrigan wants, and there's no reason to believe Morrigan will just give up on her God Child plans just because of one failure.

Morrigan will come back for sure, and we will get to complete her story for sure (devs posted as much). But unless it is just a side quest (which I doubt, given her importance to the series), odds are they will find a way to make her story work with or without the Dark Ritual.

Fact is, Bioware has already moved on from the Warden. His/Her choices persist, but it is time for a new hero, for both practical and narrative reasons.

Itkovian

[addiction21]

Is the Wardens story over? Maybe...

[ace100000]

I am just saying that the warden coming back to confront moriggan and their demon child sounds far more appealing than hawk or any other random guy dealing with those two. its too great a story to miss out on for bioware and a lot of people feel this way, at least i do so.

[Sable Rhapsody]

ace100000 wrote...

I am just saying that the warden coming back to confront moriggan and their demon child sounds far more appealing than hawk or any other random guy dealing with those two. its too great a story to miss out on for bioware and a lot of people feel this way, at least i do so.

You're looking at it from the perspective of your particular Warden who romanced Morrigan and performed the Dark Ritual.  That automatically assumes a lot about the Warden, which does not apply to other peoples' Wardens.  If a player so chooses, s/he can keep Morrigan out of the party, completely ignore her for the entire game, turn down her sidequest, turn down the Dark Ritual, and never do Witch Hunt.  Not much of a story there.  The Warden can run the gamut from being intimately involved in Morrigan's arc to completely uninvolved and possibly even dead.

DA:O is not like ME or ME2.  It's too open-ended with the million zillion iterations of the Warden and his/her choices.  The ME series was designed for Shepard's choices to vary enough to import from ME1 to ME2, but not completely throw off the story.  The fact that Shep can die at the end of ME2 is very different from the US ending of DA:O--Shep dying at the end of ME2 may as well be a non-standard game over since it's unimportable, and the series was designed to be about one character.  The US ending of DA:O IS importable to DA2 as far as we know (though unfortunately not Awakening), and its world events do not require that the Warden lives.

[wildannie]

@Itkovian - I'm not sure why you insist in presenting your opinions as 'fact' you don't know, I don't know, there are good reasons on both sides of this discussion and ultimately we'll find out in time what the outcome is.

[Bullets McDeath]

I don't see anywhere that he insisted or implied his opinions were fact. You might have mistaken them for being fact-like, as his opinions are right. That could be what you're experiencing. Note that this is my opinion, which while also right, is not a fact. Thank you. Go Texas.

[Huntress]

Some warden made US, others didn't like mine, I do not see killing myself a good end rofl, but nobody is perfect i guess



Hawk guy is gonna end the same as the NOT US warden ( hawk went to adventure/rule/kill itself) next game is gonna be all about the fade lol

[Itkovian]

wildannie wrote...

@Itkovian - I'm not sure why you insist in presenting your opinions as 'fact' you don't know, I don't know, there are good reasons on both sides of this discussion and ultimately we'll find out in time what the outcome is.

I do not use the word "fact" lightly.

Bioware has moved on from the Warden. That's what DA2 is all about, with a new iconic hero.

Add to that all the other problems faced with making further content for the warden (beyond DLC for DAO, which Bioware has stated will not happen), and it is rather clear that Bioware is done with the Warden's story (at least in any significant way).

Itkovian

[Sable Rhapsody]

I'm curious as to why the Warden inspires such passionate (one might even say fanatical) devotion to the point where people are STILL upset about not playing that same character in DAII months after the announcement. I liked my Warden. She was a complex, evolving, character who was oodles of fun to roleplay. But her story's over with Awakening. I don't need to know how the details of her life worked out--I'm fine with "And then she and Alistair had badass adventures and rode off into the sunset."

I'm starting to think the common denominator is Morrigan. A fair few of the posts I've seen here or in other threads have mentioned her storyline as a reason to continue the Warden's tale. Despite the fact that her whole demon god baby schtick doesn't have to happen at all. Are we really that stuck on her even after Witch Hunt?

PureMethodActor wrote...

All in all, you seem to be focusing too much on the individual need, which is a habit I see with most US-only players. You need to remember that the Dark Ritual choice was billed as THE most important choice, and it is only fair and right, especially for those who chose Dark Ritual like myself, that Bioware gives the Warden's story a continuation to help deal with Flemeth and her machinations.

I agree in principle, but in practice...one can hardly justify BioWare giving players who performed the Dark Ritual a whole other stand-alone GAME.  And even with DLC, most DLC is geared toward all players.  Witch Hunt was rare in how much its potential endings varied based on the Warden's relationships and choices--most DLC can be played by any sort of character, even other pieces of character-oriented DLC like Lair of the Shadow Broker or Leliana's Song.  It's equally unfair to produce DLC or heaven forbid an entire game that only makes sense if you played the Dark Ritual.

The problem is that no matter what the devs make, it has to be workable with all the frillions of different iterations of the Warden, and with relative equity.  So some plot lines are going to get dropped, and some things won't be treated with the depth that they would have if DA were a novel or movie.  That's the trade-off.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 16 novembre 2010 - 09:46 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

PureMethodActor wrote...

This is inaccurate. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the Warden's don't deal exclusively with Darkspawn. They serve as diplomats and leaders in other functions as well. They serve the people of Thedas regardless of the problem.

As Brock said earlier, one example is taking over stewardship of Amaranthine. And this isn't motivated by Darkspawn at the beginning; indeed Darkspawn show up and a plot for Awakening is created, but originally the Warden's primary mission is to rule over Amaranthine as an Arl/Arlessa.

Either way, saying Grey Wardens only deal with Darkspawn is highly inaccurate and these false statements need to stop.

The Grey Wardens of Weisshaupt do indeed serve in other, more political roles.  But the only reason why the Warden-Commander is at Amaranthine is because the arling has been given to the Wardens as a base of operations, both in recognition of their actions, and as a means for them to restore their numbers and deal with the straggling darkspawn.  If the arling hadn't been granted to the Wardens, and as a direct consequence of the recent Blight, the Warden-Commander would likely have nothing to do with it.

[Brockololly]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
I'm starting to think the common denominator is Morrigan. A fair few of the posts I've seen here or in other threads have mentioned her storyline as a reason to continue the Warden's tale. Despite the fact that her whole demon god baby schtick doesn't have to happen at all. Are we really that stuck on her even after Witch Hunt?

I have no problem moving on to some other PC. The problem I have would be in the future, as the devs constantly say how Morrigan's story isn't over and how they're not done with Morrigan yet.

Witch Hunt does nothing but further tie together the Warden and Morrigan- whether thats by going through the Eluvian with her, or stabbing her or getting some mysterious gift from her. So I would be royally ticked off, from a story telling POV if nothing else, if they bring Morrigan back and the Warden who went through the ELuvian with her wasn't there. Or really if its some random PC dealing with Morrigan when her story comes to fruition. Its been built up thus far with the Warden and to have some new random Epic Hot Rod Samurai Dude Hero step in during the last act while having written off the Warden for whatever reason would be lame beyond words.

The Warden's involvement goes beyond the Old God Baby though, as Witch Hunt shows since it ties into the coming "change" and how Morrigan warns the Warden to have all Wardens on guard and how FLemeth had a greater role in the Blight than even the Warden realizes. That alone gives reason for the Warden to come back into the picture whenever Morigan comes back into the picture as well.

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
If the arling hadn't been granted to the Wardens, and as a direct  consequence of the recent Blight, the Warden-Commander would likely have nothing to do with it.

But it was always my impression when you speak to Mistress Woolsey, that the First Warden is viewing it as a trial run though too for having the Wardens at large exert more political power.Having the Warden as Arl sets a new precedent for the Wardens exerting politcal power outside of the Anderfels and if the Warden does a good job, maybe other nations look at Ferelden as an example?  Because while Ferelden is certainly not the Anderfels, it is a country that was just mucked up pretty good by the Blight and the First Warden probably sees having the Hero fo Ferelden as an Arl nicely filling a power vacuum all the while giving the Wardens more political sway and establishing a precedent to build off of in the future.

Modifié par Brockololly, 16 novembre 2010 - 09:57 .

[naledgeborn]

Yes. Morrigan warns both Hero of Fereldan or Orlesian Warden Commander that Flemeth is out there and that everybody including herself needs to get ready for the next Big Bad. Mr. Gaider would have to write a story that revolves around HOF or OW but it is possible. I know people hate the Idea of a voiced protag but they'd only need 2 sets (male and female). The accent would have to be ambiguously Fereldan/Orlesian for them to pull the race issue off and if that's the route they want to take so be it. As long as MY Warden, Morrigan, and OGB make a come back, I'm happy. After a direct DAO sequel they can retire the Warden. I don't consider DA2 a sequel but another installment in their series.