238 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Course ME2 didn't exhibit that at all plot wise, but apparently its so hard to relate to companions who aren't wearing the same damn thing the entire game. Their whole personality is based on it!

That's literally true in two cases.

...Which two cases? I only got one and that's Jack.

Thane's exposed chest was supposedly for "mositure".

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 novembre 2010 - 06:19 .

[Meltemph]

Course ME2 didn't exhibit that at all plot wise, but apparently its so hard to relate to companions who aren't wearing the same damn thing the entire game.

Ya, but Shep's gear looked pretty fricking cool, so who cares.

[Ziggeh]

Ryzaki wrote...

...Which two cases? I only got one.

Jack's personality was a result of the things that were done to her body. Her life written in "scars" wasn't just a neat look.

I assumed you guessed Tali!

Edit: I assumed wrong! Not exactly her entire personality, admittedly, but she and her culture are deeply rooted in the way in which she relates to the world through her costume.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 14 novembre 2010 - 06:22 .

[Ryzaki]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Which two cases? I only got one.

Jack's personality was a result of the things that were done to her body. Her life written in "scars" wasn't just a neat look.

I assumed you guessed Tali!

Tali's wearing armor though isn't she? I assume those suits double as armor. And...her in that bodysuit isn't exactly of her free will. She has to wear that or get severely sick/die or stay on her ship.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 novembre 2010 - 06:23 .

[Ryzaki]

Meltemph wrote...

Course ME2 didn't exhibit that at all plot wise, but apparently its so hard to relate to companions who aren't wearing the same damn thing the entire game.

Ya, but Shep's gear looked pretty fricking cool, so who cares.

I will give ME2 this. They did do that right. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 novembre 2010 - 06:23 .

[Meltemph]

...Which two cases? I only got one and that's Jack.



Thane's exposed chest was supposedly for "mositure".

Ya, I can't really think of one myself. That said, Grunt, Mordin, Zaeed, Thane, and Legion all looked cooler then any gear available in ME1.

[Ryzaki]

Meltemph wrote...

...Which two cases? I only got one and that's Jack.

Thane's exposed chest was supposedly for "mositure".

Ya, I can't really think of one myself. That said, Grunt, Mordin, Zaeed, Thane, and Legion all looked cooler then any gear available in ME1.

They also made me wonder why the hell they didn't look like swiss cheese onseveral occasions. Grunts arms are exposed, one of Zaeed's arms are exposed, I already mentioned Thane's chest and Legion has a bunch of cords that look important out in the open.

The collectors are retarded too. They should've been aiming for those spots instead of ganging up on the fully armored Shepard.

[Ziggeh]

Ryzaki wrote...

Tali's wearing armor though isn't she? I assume those suits double as armor. And...her in that bodysuit isn't exactly of her free will. She has to wear that or get severely sick/die or stay on her ship.

Headscratchy. Not sure what that has to do with the costume being crucial to the personality.

[Meltemph]

They also made me wonder why the hell they didn't look like swiss cheese onseveral occasions. Grunts arms are exposed, one of Zaeed's arms are exposed, I already mentioned Thane's chest and Legion has a bunch of cords that look important out in the open.

But they looked really cool.

The collectors are retarded too. They should've been aiming for those spots instead of ganging up on the fully armored Shepard.

Meh, it still looked better then the space suits in ME1. I will say though, it would be cool if they also gave us sliders for companions(does not even have to be as much) in 3.

[Ryzaki]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Tali's wearing armor though isn't she? I assume those suits double as armor. And...her in that bodysuit isn't exactly of her free will. She has to wear that or get severely sick/die or stay on her ship.

Headscratchy. Not sure what that has to do with the costume being crucial to the personality.

It's not.

The fact that she's trapped in it is crucial to her personality.

Not to poster I quoted: 

Them looking cool isn't an excuse. Because one person's cool is another person's retarded. They looked cool to you. They looked mindbogglingly retarded to me.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 novembre 2010 - 06:29 .

[MerinTB]

Fortlowe wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
I know of an industry that will put characters in the same outfits over and over again.

Cartoons.  Aimed at children.  As to not confuse the young ones as to who is who.

And Star Trek. And Men in Black. And Family Guy. And Every Super Hero Comic know to man. And Halo. And Mass Effect 1. And MAss Effect 2. And  Heiroglyphs..........

First off, I should have qualified by saying "putting each character it his or her own unique outfit but never changing that outfit" - to not confuse as to seemingly mean "put all characters in the same outfit" like people on the same team or same military unit.


Star Trek - Uniforms are a military thing.  So when they are all dressed the same, wearing the same outfit while on duty, it's the rules not a creative shorthand for easy character identification.  If nothing else, it makes it harder to tell characters apart when they all wear identical uniforms.

So Kirk always dressed like this, right?

Except when he dressed like this -

or this -

and the whole crew had different enough outfits to let you know who was who, right, like this -

except when they didn't, like this -


Hmm, and I didn't even get to pictures of them in casual clothes for episodes or movies (when they were off duty) or in dress uniforms for ceremonies, or any other outfit changes for the characters.

I won't dig through pictures for the two movies of Men In Black (I assume you don't mean the comics) but you can see each main character in several different sets of clothing in each movie.  Mostly the suits, yes, but that's because that is their WORK UNIFORM.  And those suits changed from movie to movie.

Family Guy is a cartoon - and while it's a more adult parody, it's an adult parody of older sitcom-y cartoons like the Flintstones and the SImpsons.  They dress the same almost all the time because that's part of the gag.  And, again, cartoon - my point.

Super-hero comics.  Everyone.  The characters never change costumes over the years -

and never appear out of costume in the comics either -


Halo is a FPS that runs pretty much real-time from start to finish, where is Master Chief going to change, and why would he ditch the best armor humanity has?

Mass Effect 1 - Shepard not only can change armor (as can all his recruited crew) amongst several styles, but both he and most of his crew appear in different clothes during casual time (on ship not on a mission) than their armor for mission.

ME2 still does all of that for Shepard, in some ways allowing MORE customization for Shepard's armor and casual clothing... just most of his party can (pre-DLC) only get 1 set of color changes to their outfits (most of them don't come close to qualifying as armor.)

Without bringing up pictures to prove it... Scooby Doo and his mystery solving friends wore the same clothes all episode, every episode, for years.  They almost never changed (Scooby and Shaggy would don a one-scene disguise for laughs sometimes, and the odd episode where, say, they went skiing they would dress in winter versions of their usual outfits... but still.)

Children's cartoons (and many live action shows aimed at children) almost universally have "set characters stuck in set costumes always" vibe.  In a way that no other entertainment medium does.

---

But nice try.

[Fortlowe]

And Indiana Jones. And Legend of Zelda. And the Mario Bros. And Left for Dead. And Transmetropoliton. And Samurai Champloo. And Nightmare on Elm Street. And Tom Strong. And Final Fight. And Beavis and Butt-Head. And Battlestar Galactica.

Your examples are the exception to how these characters are portayed visually, no the rule.
The first picture of Kirk is how anyone who thinks of Kirk thinks of him. In the novels, MC takes the armor off, but he's only truly personified when he's wearing it. Same goes for Cyclops and all of his breed. Take him out of his uniform, and objectively you stand a chance of mistaking him for Daredevil out of uniform. On the Normandy both new and old companions wear the same stuff you met them in. Shep can change, sure, but so will Hawke, so they can't be counted.

Also, FTW, Darth Vader.

I don't even need visual aids, because the characters are identifiable due to their distinctive design.

Nah Nah Nah Boo Boo.

Modifié par Fortlowe, 14 novembre 2010 - 11:01 .

[Ladybright]

MerinTB wrote...

[snip]
---

But nice try.

Well, yes, visual identities changes over different generations of a character or product. See: the hundreds of different Batmans. It's almost like the character design and art direction change in each version to support the overall story or theme... I have no idea how that could be applied to DA2, of course.

Within the same specific generation costumes and character identities change far less. Kirk, for example, typically wore his yellow Starfleet uniform, but was occasionally seen in his fetching green V-neck wrap shirt or in no shirt at all. Some episodes would dictate plot-specific outfits (e.g. orange space suits in "Naked Time"). Ninety percent of the time, though, Kirk was in his yellow Starfleet uniform. This is the image of Kirk in popular culture. No one thinks of Kirk from The Undiscovered Country. Kirk in his yellow regs is a successful, established visual identity.

This is what DA2 is trying for: a recognizable image that packs more visual information. The designs should impart a basic feel for each character, like concept art. Isabela's outfit packs far more of a punch than grey iron chainmail. We look at Isabela and we have some sense of who she might be. She's pretty obviously outgoing, probably has a bit of attitude, seems pretty confident in herself. From a glance, there's a bit of a pirate aesthetic which is in keeping with who she is. Now picture Isabela in a nun's habit, no piercings, no makeup, no swagger. That's a different feel, isn't it? We no longer have a sense of Isabela as a go-get-em swashbuckler even if she has the same personality underneath. Isabela in rough leather armor isn't all that different. Nothing distinguishes her from Bandit no. 73. Whether that's a good or bad thing depends on your perspective, but to argue that aesthetics do nothing for a character is simply foolish.

Also, Cos Sarah Jinstar, I believe you wondered earlier in the thread who does barrel rolls in combat? Look no further!

Modifié par Ladybright, 14 novembre 2010 - 09:53 .

[hexaligned]

Ladybright wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

[snip]
---

But nice try.

Also, Cos Sarah Jinstar, I believe you wondered earlier in the thread who does barrel rolls in combat? Look no further!

I always thought that whole "barrel roll" thing was a reference to some good old Star Foxing www.youtube.com/watch
Ah... Star Fox... *Loads up his emulator.*

Modifié par relhart, 14 novembre 2010 - 10:29 .