238 réponses à ce sujet

[FedericoV]

Tsuga C wrote...

FedericoV wrote...
...I respect your view but I...

...prefer silly and insipid as long as it looks |33t and kewl.  Got it.  You want your medieval fantasy games heavy on the fantasy and light on the medieval and I have always preferred the exact opposite.

No. It's only that it does not hurt my feeling because I'm playing a fantasy game and not the videogame version of "Pride and Prejudice". I would really like a GRRMesque fantasy setting too, heavy on the historical as you say... but it does not seem to me that Forgotten Realms or Thedas are such a setting (or any other CRPG I ever played in the fantasy genre).

Btw, a french company is making a Song of Ice and Fire CRPG, I'm really curios to see how it turns out.

Modifié par FedericoV, 13 novembre 2010 - 07:06 .

[slimgrin]

Sarah has a point there. Gaming pc's are much cheaper now.

If you build your own, you can turn $900 into a machine capable of playing any modern game at med. high settings, not to mention all the other things it can do. In the long run, pc gamers save money. They have one platform that does it all. Console gamers who are on the forums right now are paying for two.

Modifié par slimgrin, 13 novembre 2010 - 07:05 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

FedericoV wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Well yeah, they stripped so much armor customization out of the game, why not strip out fatigue and armor penetration and everything else while they're at it. Wouldn't want that stuff in there, might be too confusing for the target audience.

No, the point is that a feature is not good if artificially complex and convolute. A feature is good because of the level of challenge it adds to the game. Simpler do not mean dumber on any level. A simple game could be more difficult and deep than a "complex" one.

For example, Fatigue in DA:O was silly. It was impossible to balance in a enjoyable and rewarding way so the result was "give a tons of potions to the players".  So many potions that you never runned short of Mana or Stamina (after Awakening).

AP? It was even sillier. You could ignore it from the beginning to the end of the game because its result overlapped with pure damage so it has not any use.

So from now on if someone doesn't like a feature just call it silly to totally invalidate said feature. Got ya.

[Herr Uhl]

Brockololly wrote...
Much of that talk is in the thread Peter Thomas had going a couple months ago, where ever thats buried in this forum.

Ok, thanks. Must have missed it when I read up again after missing some of it.

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

No not really, I just call em like I see em, and it pisses console users off to even consider that games on their perfered platform tend to actually end up being better on the PC. Consoles are a rip-off.  A lot of people who use them say, well I can't afford to upgrade my PC and yet they've spent 200 to 500 on a console and are paying 5 to 15 more on each game they buy.

Yes, truly, there is no PC-user that likes the changes made. Your statement wasn't derogatory to console users, just people who like the changes made. You should be able to see that if you are even half as intelligent as you claim to be. Tact is for losers.

[Lyssistr]

slimgrin wrote...

Sarah has a point there. Gaming pc's are much cheaper now.

If you build your own, you can turn $900 into a machine capable of playing any modern game at med. high settings, not to mention all the other things it can do. In the long run, pc gamers save money. They have one platform that does it all. Console gamers who are on the forums right now are paying for two.

 Factor in that everybody pays a premium to buy a PC anyhow, the overhead for a Gaming PC is not that big, not to mention that PC games are themselves much cheaper, especially if you wait for Steam's holiday sales to buy, like I do. PC gaming is not expensive at all tbh.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Lyssistr wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Sarah has a point there. Gaming pc's are much cheaper now.

If you build your own, you can turn $900 into a machine capable of playing any modern game at med. high settings, not to mention all the other things it can do. In the long run, pc gamers save money. They have one platform that does it all. Console gamers who are on the forums right now are paying for two.

 Factor in that everybody pays a premium to buy a PC anyhow, the overhead for a Gaming PC is not that big, not to mention that PC games are themselves much cheaper, especially if you wait for Steam's holiday sales to buy, like I do. PC gaming is not expensive at all tbh.

Exactly, but you know PC gaming is dying, of course it's been dying for the past 15 years supposidly yet WoW has sold how many millions of copies just as one example.

[FedericoV]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So from now on if someone doesn't like a feature just call it silly to totally invalidate said feature. Got ya.

LOL. Are you for real? It seems to me that I've argued why they are silly and broken from my point of view. Instead you're only using general and superficial arguments like that one. Got ya.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

FedericoV wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So from now on if someone doesn't like a feature just call it silly to totally invalidate said feature. Got ya.

LOL. Are you for real? It seems to me that I've argued why they are silly and broken from my point of view. Instead you're only using general and superficial arguments like that one. Got ya.

You worked on the game and know if a system is broken on not? Stating your opinion as fact doesn't make it so. There were valid reasons for those factors to be in the game. Just because you think they're silly doesn't change that.

[slimgrin]

Lyssistr wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Sarah has a point there. Gaming pc's are much cheaper now.

If you build your own, you can turn $900 into a machine capable of playing any modern game at med. high settings, not to mention all the other things it can do. In the long run, pc gamers save money. They have one platform that does it all. Console gamers who are on the forums right now are paying for two.

 Factor in that everybody pays a premium to buy a PC anyhow, the overhead for a Gaming PC is not that big, not to mention that PC games are themselves much cheaper, especially if you wait for Steam's holiday sales to buy, like I do. PC gaming is not expensive at all tbh.

I'm poor as hell. I could never afford shelling out the cash for a console and $10 to $20 extra for each game I buy. I usually hunt for yr old titles which are often half price. The average amount I pay for a pc game is $20-$40, and if I go to GoG, its $6 - $9. On Amazon, a game that is 2-3 yrs old is dirt cheap, so basically I buy the occasional new release, but most in my collection are 'older' games. Given all the other perks of a pc, it simply didn't make sense to buy two machines where one would do the job. I'd love to play some of the many great games that come out on console, I just can't afford it.

Sorry, kinda off topic. I'm outa here.

[Tsuga C]

FedericoV wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...

FedericoV wrote...
...I respect your view but I...

...prefer silly and insipid as long as it looks |33t and kewl.  Got it.  You want your medieval fantasy games heavy on the fantasy and light on the medieval and I have always preferred the exact opposite.

No. It's only that it does not hurt my feeling because I'm playing a fantasy game and not the videogame version of "Pride and Prejudice". I would really like a GRRMesque fantasy setting too, heavy on the historical as you say... but it does not seem to me that Forgotten Realms or Thedas are such a setting (or any other CRPG I ever played in the fantasy genre).

Btw, a french company is making a Song of Ice and Fire CRPG, I'm really curios to see how it turns out.

If you'd been on the forums from the time DA:O was announced back in 2004, you'd know that it was initially planned as something a lot more like ASOIAF than it turned out.  To me, DA:O as it was released is already dangerously close to being Forgotten Realms-lite in terms of the amount of magic, amongst other things.  It was initially said that an average peasant in Thedas would go an entire lifetime without seeing a legitimate piece of magic.  Ferelden is darn well littered with magical items and they're even sold in shops.  So much for a magic-scarce setting...

A French company, eh?  I may have to look them up.  Thanks for the information! 

Modifié par Tsuga C, 13 novembre 2010 - 07:25 .

[FedericoV]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

You worked on the game and know if a system is broken on not? Stating your opinion as fact doesn't make it so. There were valid reasons for those factors to be in the game. Just because you think they're silly doesn't change that.

I have played the game and it was enough to see that those features were broken and/or not needed. My opinions are my opinions, some person will agree with me, others won't: I am not the one who started those arguments. They are on DA:O's board since the game has been published. And there are valid reasons to dismiss those feature since they have not done anything for the game if not adding an artificial layer of complexity.

Modifié par FedericoV, 13 novembre 2010 - 07:42 .

[Fortlowe]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Fortlowe wrote...

This 'streamlining' I keep hearing about has yet to rear its ugly head. Auto attack is still an option. Tactics are still fundemental to the gameplay. A voiced protagonist is an addition, not subtraction. Responsive combat is an addition as well.

There wasn't customizable armor in DA:O; not really. The Legion of the Dead armor looked the same on Allister as it did on Sten. Having an exclusively human protagonist was vital to the narrative, which will be even richer than that of DA:O (it will span ten years instead of only one) and I am certain that decision has meaning beyond DA2.

I mean, have you asked yourself if you really even liked DA:O? If so, then wouldn't it be grand if the franchise came into its own. I think so. I really loved Limbo. There is no denying that it is a spirtual successor to Mario Bros. Limbo was an animal of it's own though, and is best appreciated as such. The same can be said for any number of different games, from every genre. Was I P.O.'ed about the art direction that Zelda: The Wind Waker took from Zelda Ocarina of time? Initially, absolutely, even though a lot of people loved it. Then I played it, and realized that it was still Zelda, and brilliant in its own right. I was eventually even won over by the the art style. I'm confident DA2 will work out the same way if you allow it to be free of preconceptions.

There's not customizable armor is DA2 either, unless you consider adding a rune or whatnot to be this great bastion of customization. Isabella is still going to be looking exactly the same for the entirety of the game, because hey, people never change their clothing, it would totally effect their personality! If I wanted to make Morrigan an Arcane Warrior and put her in Full plate, I could, now? lol no chance what so ever thanks to simplifying/streamlining companion armor choice down to zero. The game will span 10 years, your companions will wear the same outfit for that 10 years.

A voice protagonist isn't an improvement, oh yay I get to pick from some more paraphrased choices and guess at what "MY" PC will say. Yeah thats great. awesome.

There's a difference between making combat more responsive and having characters "warp across the screen to attack" Or flip and barrel roll and look moronic. The overhead tactical camera on PC is gone as well, or at the very least won't allow the player to zoom out as much. Granted you console guys didn't have a tactical camera so I'm sure you folks couldn't care less about that feature to begin with.

That there wasn't customizable armor in DA:O was my point. That isn't changing in DA2. Only that you won't be forced into some cookie cutter armor swapping contrivance to augment a companions preformance.  

As far as making A mage into an Arcane warrior, and that resulting in being able to wear plate armor, well that is yet to be determined, I think. If the Arcane Warrior spec is still in the game (and my understanding is that that spec was dreadfully overpowered anyway) then could it result in the Mage's appearance changing perhaps?

On the voiced protagonist and the paraphrasing, my understanding is that though the sytem is being adopted from ME2, how that system will be implented will be very different in that, along with symbology to better recognize how Hawke will say it, the paraphrasing will more accurately reflect what Hawke will be saying. That is  an improvement, if you ask me.

Modifié par Fortlowe, 13 novembre 2010 - 07:27 .

[FedericoV]

Tsuga C wrote...

If you'd been on the forums from the time DA:O was announced back in 2004, you'd know that it was initially planned as something a lot more like ASOIAF than it turned out.  To me, DA:O as it was released is already dangerously close to being Forgotten Realms-lite in terms of the amount of magic, amongst other things.  It was initially said that an average peasant in Thedas would go an entire lifetime without seeing a legitimate piece of magic.  Ferelden is darn well littered with magical items and they're even sold in shops.  So much for a magic-scarce setting...

I've followed DA:O's development since the beginning mostly as a lurker. Infact, I've expected and hoped for something else  in terms of setting. It turned out to be a more coeherent, historical and darker version of the Forgotten Realms as you say... but still, very like the FR. In that context, that it's pretty strong on the heroic/magic side I can accept over the top animations. I mean, I do not care a lot about them and they do not affect my experience with the game.

A French company, eh?  I may have to look them up.  Thanks for the information! 

You're welcome. I seem to remember that they are called Cyanide. They should realize a RTS title first and then an RPG.

Modifié par FedericoV, 13 novembre 2010 - 07:38 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Fortlowe wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Fortlowe wrote...

This 'streamlining' I keep hearing about has yet to rear its ugly head. Auto attack is still an option. Tactics are still fundemental to the gameplay. A voiced protagonist is an addition, not subtraction. Responsive combat is an addition as well.

There wasn't customizable armor in DA:O; not really. The Legion of the Dead armor looked the same on Allister as it did on Sten. Having an exclusively human protagonist was vital to the narrative, which will be even richer than that of DA:O (it will span ten years instead of only one) and I am certain that decision has meaning beyond DA2.

I mean, have you asked yourself if you really even liked DA:O? If so, then wouldn't it be grand if the franchise came into its own. I think so. I really loved Limbo. There is no denying that it is a spirtual successor to Mario Bros. Limbo was an animal of it's own though, and is best appreciated as such. The same can be said for any number of different games, from every genre. Was I P.O.'ed about the art direction that Zelda: The Wind Waker took from Zelda Ocarina of time? Initially, absolutely, even though a lot of people loved it. Then I played it, and realized that it was still Zelda, and brilliant in its own right. I was eventually even won over by the the art style. I'm confident DA2 will work out the same way if you allow it to be free of preconceptions.

There's not customizable armor is DA2 either, unless you consider adding a rune or whatnot to be this great bastion of customization. Isabella is still going to be looking exactly the same for the entirety of the game, because hey, people never change their clothing, it would totally effect their personality! If I wanted to make Morrigan an Arcane Warrior and put her in Full plate, I could, now? lol no chance what so ever thanks to simplifying/streamlining companion armor choice down to zero. The game will span 10 years, your companions will wear the same outfit for that 10 years.

A voice protagonist isn't an improvement, oh yay I get to pick from some more paraphrased choices and guess at what "MY" PC will say. Yeah thats great. awesome.

There's a difference between making combat more responsive and having characters "warp across the screen to attack" Or flip and barrel roll and look moronic. The overhead tactical camera on PC is gone as well, or at the very least won't allow the player to zoom out as much. Granted you console guys didn't have a tactical camera so I'm sure you folks couldn't care less about that feature to begin with.

That there wasn't customizable armor in DA:O was my point. That isn't changing in DA2. Only that you won't be forced into some cookie cutter armor swapping contrivance to augment a companions preformance.  

As far as making A mage into an Arcane warrior, and that resulting in being able to wear plate armor, well that is yet to be determined, I think. If the Arcane Warrior spec is still in the game (and my understanding is that that spec was dreadfully overpowered anyway) then could it result in the Mage's appearance changing perhaps?

On the voiced protagonist and the paraphrasing, my understanding is that though the sytem is being adopted from ME2, how that system will be implented will be very different in that, along with symbology to better recognize how Hawke will say it, the paraphrasing will more accurately reflect what Hawke will be saying. That is  an improvement, if you ask me.

So eliminating any sort of choice at all is somehow supposed to be better than "cookie cutter" as you put it, swapping. Which isn't true since different armors had different stats but whatever.

As for the voice stuff, that remains to be seen if it is indeed "bettter" my gut tells me it won't be.

[Martanek]

Wait... they are removing armour customization, fatigue, and armour penetration? Good to hear the good news. I almost thought Bioware had forgotten their favourite ME2's remove=improve approach.

[FedericoV]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So eliminating any sort of choice at all is somehow supposed to be better than "cookie cutter" as you put it, swapping. Which isn't true since different armors had different stats but whatever.

Different stats are still there thanks to upgrades and runes.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

FedericoV wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So eliminating any sort of choice at all is somehow supposed to be better than "cookie cutter" as you put it, swapping. Which isn't true since different armors had different stats but whatever.

Different stats are still there thanks to upgrades and runes.

Which isn't the point. Some of us actually LIKE handling customization and looks of characters. Oh goody, maybe I can add a rune that has Isabela put some damn pants on.

[ENolan]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So eliminating any sort of choice at all is somehow supposed to be better than "cookie cutter" as you put it, swapping. Which isn't true since different armors had different stats but whatever.

Different stats are still there thanks to upgrades and runes.

Which isn't the point. Some of us actually LIKE handling customization and looks of characters. Oh goody, maybe I can add a rune that has Isabela put some damn pants on.

Off-topic question, but since Alistair AND Oghren got away without wearing pants on occasion, isn't it fair Isabela get away with it too?

[Fortlowe]

I'm soooo anti pants I don't even know where to start. Read sig

[upsettingshorts]

Fortlowe wrote...

I'm soooo anti pants I don't even know where to start. Read sig

How do you feel about shorts?

[FedericoV]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So eliminating any sort of choice at all is somehow supposed to be better than "cookie cutter" as you put it, swapping. Which isn't true since different armors had different stats but whatever.

Different stats are still there thanks to upgrades and runes.

Which isn't the point. Some of us actually LIKE handling customization and looks of characters. Oh goody, maybe I can add a rune that has Isabela put some damn pants on.

No. It is the point since you say "different armour has different stats" and there is a very radical difference beetween cosmetics and stats. Then, I understand that you like changing armours for the companions becuase you like to choose how they dress... and do not care about the uniqueness of their model. Personally, if I can play with their stats in a strategical way, I do not care what system they choose, I can live with both.

Modifié par FedericoV, 13 novembre 2010 - 07:53 .

[Saibh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Fortlowe wrote...

I'm soooo anti pants I don't even know where to start. Read sig

How do you feel about shorts?

They're...up...se...



I refuse, dammit.

[Ryzaki]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...


Which isn't the point. Some of us actually LIKE handling customization and looks of characters. Oh goody, maybe I can add a rune that has Isabela put some damn pants on.

She does need some booty shorts. Hell they'd even go along with the pirate theme.

"I fight with quickness and wit." Really witty to wear loose clothing and jewelery. Really. Absolutely genius. <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 novembre 2010 - 08:10 .

[Fortlowe]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So eliminating any sort of choice at all is somehow supposed to be better than "cookie cutter" as you put it, swapping. Which isn't true since different armors had different stats but whatever.

As for the voice stuff, that remains to be seen if it is indeed "bettter" my gut tells me it won't be.

Is it better than what we had in DA:O? Yes, I think it is. Would I have liked to have some input on my companions look? Yes, very much so. But, not if that input robs the character of their visual individuality like it did in DA:O. I've said before in other threads that I would have preferred a piece meal system of visual alterations. Instead of having to collect complete armor sets, I'd rather collect uniquie crafting items to have unique pieces of armor made specifically for one companion or another. That, might be the case, but I'm not holding my breath. Even still, what we have been presented with is an improvement over the DA:O system, I think, because it serves the narrative better.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Fortlowe wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So eliminating any sort of choice at all is somehow supposed to be better than "cookie cutter" as you put it, swapping. Which isn't true since different armors had different stats but whatever.

As for the voice stuff, that remains to be seen if it is indeed "bettter" my gut tells me it won't be.

Is it better than what we had in DA:O? Yes, I think it is. Would I have liked to have some input on my companions look? Yes, very much so. But, not if that input robs the character of their visual individuality like it did in DA:O. I've said before in other threads that I would have preferred a piece meal system of visual alterations. Instead of having to collect complete armor sets, I'd rather collect uniquie crafting items to have unique pieces of armor made specifically for one companion or another. That, might be the case, but I'm not holding my breath. Even still, what we have been presented with is an improvement over the DA:O system, I think, because it serves the narrative better.

See I just cant understand the whole If a companion isn't wearing a particular outfit, they're all of a sudden not the same person. It just doesn't make any logical sense to me what so ever.