238 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Aye and for all of ME2s unique outfits I felt Shep's interaction with most of them was ultimately shallow.

[slimgrin]

Ryzaki wrote...

Aye and for all of ME2s unique outfits I felt Shep's interaction with most of them was ultimately shallow.

My interaction with Miranda's outfit wasn't shallow. 

[Ryzaki]

slimgrin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Aye and for all of ME2s unique outfits I felt Shep's interaction with most of them was ultimately shallow.

My interaction with Miranda's outfit wasn't shallow. 

Urgh. Don't get me started on Miranda's outfit and how it really said nothing about her. At all. <_<

I understand her wearing something sexy. But Miranda's the classy sexy tease you a little bit way. That outfit was gratituous in a way to me didn't fit Miranda at all. It shows her cameltoe for god sakes' urgh.

And honestly the ass shots (and Jacob's ass/abs shots) were ridculous. I get it they're attractive. No stop shoving it in my face. <_<

Ah yes...the zipper on it too. She better be happy she has kinetic barriers or she'd be looking like swiss cheese.

...I should stop before I go on a ME2 armor rant.

...Stopping now.

Anyways. I hope my mage Hawke can put on some armor. I'll take the pentalties. I just want armor.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 novembre 2010 - 08:28 .

[Saibh]

Ryzaki wrote...

Anyways. I hope my mage Hawke can put on some armor. I'll take the pentalties. I just want armor.

The "iconic" Hawke armor seems to be mage Hawke's version, judging from screenshots. I'm honestly disappointed. Rogue Hawke seems to get his own version...I thought that this concept



...would be similar to what we'd get.

Modifié par Saibh, 13 novembre 2010 - 08:34 .

[Fortlowe]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Fortlowe wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So eliminating any sort of choice at all is somehow supposed to be better than "cookie cutter" as you put it, swapping. Which isn't true since different armors had different stats but whatever.

As for the voice stuff, that remains to be seen if it is indeed "bettter" my gut tells me it won't be.

Is it better than what we had in DA:O? Yes, I think it is. Would I have liked to have some input on my companions look? Yes, very much so. But, not if that input robs the character of their visual individuality like it did in DA:O. I've said before in other threads that I would have preferred a piece meal system of visual alterations. Instead of having to collect complete armor sets, I'd rather collect uniquie crafting items to have unique pieces of armor made specifically for one companion or another. That, might be the case, but I'm not holding my breath. Even still, what we have been presented with is an improvement over the DA:O system, I think, because it serves the narrative better.

See I just cant understand the whole If a companion isn't wearing a particular outfit, they're all of a sudden not the same person. It just doesn't make any logical sense to me what so ever.

If changing their stats is the point of changing their armor sets, and swapping out belts, rings, and runes accomplishes the same thing, then why all the fuss?  That a characters visual identity remain consistent and unique to that character only serves to bolster that companions personality, I think. Logically, Sten and Allister shouldn't fit in the same set of armor. 

So although I agree with you on having player input for companion outfits, we disagree on the extent to which it should go. I want armor change, but I want it to serve both the gameplay and the narrative. Say, if Varric had the notion of getting in touch with his roots, I would like to find or have crafted a special armor only he can wear. I'd also want that armor to be a benchmark of sorts instead of upgrading only a few of his stats. Say increasing his baseline statitics ten or twenty percent.

That's not likely to be the case, but I still prefer the current  way of things to the muddled and unrewarding mess that was the previous system.

[Ryzaki]

Saibh wrote...

The "iconic" Hawke armor seems to be mage Hawke's version, judging from screenshots. I'm honestly disappointed. Rogue Hawke seems to get his own version...I thought that this concept

*pic snipped* 

...would be similar to what we'd get.

You mean that ridculous fur outfit? Gah. <_<

I hope I don't see a beautiful piece of Heavy/Massive Armor and it says restricted: warrior

I will rage.

[crimzontearz]

Sarah, you know I've been meaning to say this for a while but your arguments about the dialogue wheel make very little sense in a pratcival point of view...

[MerinTB]

ErichHartmann wrote...

I'm so hardcore I want to revert back to 1980's PC gaming.

If there's no voice for the MC I'm there...

what, I still have Wasteland and Wizard Crown installed on my PC.  And I STILL play them.  You find me one game in the last ten years that I'll still be playing in 20 years.  ONE.

[MerinTB]

slimgrin wrote...

Sarah has a point there. Gaming pc's are much cheaper now.

If you build your own, you can turn $900 into a machine capable of playing any modern game at med. high settings, not to mention all the other things it can do. In the long run, pc gamers save money. They have one platform that does it all. Console gamers who are on the forums right now are paying for two.

I build PC's for myself and anyone willing to pay me.

If you already have a PC, I can upgrade it to get it to snuff.

From scratch, I can get you playing even the newest PC games at high settings for under $600, and that INCLUDES my fee for ordering the parts and putting it together.  Including a monitor, yes.
Far less if you have a monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc, that we can scavenge from an older PC you aren't going to use anymore.

The "thousands of dollaers for a gaming rig" are if you buy from Alienware or some such garbage.

You hook your PC up to your HDTV (like you do your console) I can build you the hardware equivalent of the XBOX  360 for probably $100.

[andar91]

Fortlowe wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Fortlowe wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So eliminating any sort of choice at all is somehow supposed to be better than "cookie cutter" as you put it, swapping. Which isn't true since different armors had different stats but whatever.

As for the voice stuff, that remains to be seen if it is indeed "bettter" my gut tells me it won't be.

Is it better than what we had in DA:O? Yes, I think it is. Would I have liked to have some input on my companions look? Yes, very much so. But, not if that input robs the character of their visual individuality like it did in DA:O. I've said before in other threads that I would have preferred a piece meal system of visual alterations. Instead of having to collect complete armor sets, I'd rather collect uniquie crafting items to have unique pieces of armor made specifically for one companion or another. That, might be the case, but I'm not holding my breath. Even still, what we have been presented with is an improvement over the DA:O system, I think, because it serves the narrative better.

See I just cant understand the whole If a companion isn't wearing a particular outfit, they're all of a sudden not the same person. It just doesn't make any logical sense to me what so ever.

If changing their stats is the point of changing their armor sets, and swapping out belts, rings, and runes accomplishes the same thing, then why all the fuss?  That a characters visual identity remain consistent and unique to that character only serves to bolster that companions personality, I think. Logically, Sten and Allister shouldn't fit in the same set of armor. 

So although I agree with you on having player input for companion outfits, we disagree on the extent to which it should go. I want armor change, but I want it to serve both the gameplay and the narrative. Say, if Varric had the notion of getting in touch with his roots, I would like to find or have crafted a special armor only he can wear. I'd also want that armor to be a benchmark of sorts instead of upgrading only a few of his stats. Say increasing his baseline statitics ten or twenty percent.

That's not likely to be the case, but I still prefer the current  way of things to the muddled and unrewarding mess that was the previous system.

On the armor issue:  I wouldn't mind picking every little piece of companion armor if there was a good amount of different armor models.  As it was in Origins, the leather armor on character A and character B looked extremely similar, if not identical except for gender differences or a color here or there.  There were only three different types of mage robes for god's sake! 

In this system, at least the armor we find as loot or buy will belong only to Hawke so he/she'll look distinct from his/her companions and vice versa.  And we can still customize the companion armor with runes 'n such.  Even so, I hope there are more armor models in this game than in Origins.  

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

crimzontearz wrote...

Sarah, you know I've been meaning to say this for a while but your arguments about the dialogue wheel make very little sense in a pratcival point of view...

Often times in ME2 I would pick something  and it would come out entirely different than what the wheel choice said. Whats hard to understand there? So you're essentially left guessing what exactly will be said. I want to roleplay MY character, not have the entirety of the game be some random dialog choice that I didn't really want to choose.

This is pretty much why I'm against a voiced protagonist in the first place. I don't mind reading text, it doesn't break my immersion.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Fortlowe wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Fortlowe wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So eliminating any sort of choice at all is somehow supposed to be better than "cookie cutter" as you put it, swapping. Which isn't true since different armors had different stats but whatever.

As for the voice stuff, that remains to be seen if it is indeed "bettter" my gut tells me it won't be.

Is it better than what we had in DA:O? Yes, I think it is. Would I have liked to have some input on my companions look? Yes, very much so. But, not if that input robs the character of their visual individuality like it did in DA:O. I've said before in other threads that I would have preferred a piece meal system of visual alterations. Instead of having to collect complete armor sets, I'd rather collect uniquie crafting items to have unique pieces of armor made specifically for one companion or another. That, might be the case, but I'm not holding my breath. Even still, what we have been presented with is an improvement over the DA:O system, I think, because it serves the narrative better.

See I just cant understand the whole If a companion isn't wearing a particular outfit, they're all of a sudden not the same person. It just doesn't make any logical sense to me what so ever.

If changing their stats is the point of changing their armor sets, and swapping out belts, rings, and runes accomplishes the same thing, then why all the fuss?  That a characters visual identity remain consistent and unique to that character only serves to bolster that companions personality, I think. Logically, Sten and Allister shouldn't fit in the same set of armor. 

So although I agree with you on having player input for companion outfits, we disagree on the extent to which it should go. I want armor change, but I want it to serve both the gameplay and the narrative. Say, if Varric had the notion of getting in touch with his roots, I would like to find or have crafted a special armor only he can wear. I'd also want that armor to be a benchmark of sorts instead of upgrading only a few of his stats. Say increasing his baseline statitics ten or twenty percent.

That's not likely to be the case, but I still prefer the current  way of things to the muddled and unrewarding mess that was the previous system.

It goes beyond just changing stats, its a party based RPG, the player should have complete control over said party. I don't see how or why clothing a character wears should tie into the narrative of all things, I'm sure there's more important things to worry about than making sure Isabela looks "piratey" for the entire game so people can "relate" to her character, as if dialog input doesn't accomplish the same thing while giving those players that enjoy customization the ability to do it.

Its just another indication of Bioware going total opposite extreme to please the casual fans that don't care about customization.

[The Masked Rog]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Fortlowe wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Fortlowe wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So eliminating any sort of choice at all is somehow supposed to be better than "cookie cutter" as you put it, swapping. Which isn't true since different armors had different stats but whatever.

As for the voice stuff, that remains to be seen if it is indeed "bettter" my gut tells me it won't be.

Is it better than what we had in DA:O? Yes, I think it is. Would I have liked to have some input on my companions look? Yes, very much so. But, not if that input robs the character of their visual individuality like it did in DA:O. I've said before in other threads that I would have preferred a piece meal system of visual alterations. Instead of having to collect complete armor sets, I'd rather collect uniquie crafting items to have unique pieces of armor made specifically for one companion or another. That, might be the case, but I'm not holding my breath. Even still, what we have been presented with is an improvement over the DA:O system, I think, because it serves the narrative better.

See I just cant understand the whole If a companion isn't wearing a particular outfit, they're all of a sudden not the same person. It just doesn't make any logical sense to me what so ever.

If changing their stats is the point of changing their armor sets, and swapping out belts, rings, and runes accomplishes the same thing, then why all the fuss?  That a characters visual identity remain consistent and unique to that character only serves to bolster that companions personality, I think. Logically, Sten and Allister shouldn't fit in the same set of armor. 

So although I agree with you on having player input for companion outfits, we disagree on the extent to which it should go. I want armor change, but I want it to serve both the gameplay and the narrative. Say, if Varric had the notion of getting in touch with his roots, I would like to find or have crafted a special armor only he can wear. I'd also want that armor to be a benchmark of sorts instead of upgrading only a few of his stats. Say increasing his baseline statitics ten or twenty percent.

That's not likely to be the case, but I still prefer the current  way of things to the muddled and unrewarding mess that was the previous system.

It goes beyond just changing stats, its a party based RPG, the player should have complete control over said party. I don't see how or why clothing a character wears should tie into the narrative of all things, I'm sure there's more important things to worry about than making sure Isabela looks "piratey" for the entire game so people can "relate" to her character, as if dialog input doesn't accomplish the same thing while giving those players that enjoy customization the ability to do it.

Its just another indication of Bioware going total opposite extreme to please the casual fans that don't care about customization.

BioWare is actually going completely hardcore here, screwing the n00bs who wanted to avoid real roleplay and thought they could make calls that are completely up to the individual NPC. For future games I want them to add a chance for us to have to talk to companions to upgrade their armors or change their outfits. Give them even more personality.

[ENolan]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Sarah, you know I've been meaning to say this for a while but your arguments about the dialogue wheel make very little sense in a pratcival point of view...

This is pretty much why I'm against a voiced protagonist in the first place. I don't mind reading text, it doesn't break my immersion.

It actually adds to the immersion for me as I can say the line myself and give myself the chance to work on my voice acting (only when I'm a male warden however. I'm not going tranny for any of my female wardens, no matter how much they beg ).

I know I probably have different tastes but I don't mind either having a voiced or non-voiced protagonist. I'm still curious who we will get for both Hawkes but when I finally hear them, then my opinion will be made for the change.

[upsettingshorts]

Just to clarify, reading text doesn't break my immersion. Having the method by which the NPCs and the protagonist deliver dialogue be different is what breaks my immersion.



No voiced characters or all characters voiced is how I like it. All reading or all talking. The DA:O/Oblivion style of the silent protagonist while everyone else speaks kills it for me.

[Ryzaki]

Hm...I'm fine with just the PC not talking probably because I hear it in my head anyways. But when I'm playing a character that's I'm supposed to "be" nothing, nothing kills it faster than VO. Which while I love Shepard. He will never be "my" Shepard. Just BWs Shepard.

[upsettingshorts]

Well, the way I look at it is this:

All text: Hear all dialogue with internal voice.
All voiceover: Hear all dialogue, with, you know - ears.
VO w/ silent protagonist: Hear most dialogue with ears, protagonist with internal voice. While I can understand the appeal, it strikes me as "talking head theater" where characters are talking at me instead of with me.

Simply put I just prefer it when all characters are communicating on the same terms, consistency is generally something I value when it comes to immersion, which is a pretty subjective concept.

Edit: Plus - and I won't elaborate much as it's a good way of getting into a "what is an RPG" debate - I've always treated the protagonist in CRPGs, especially Bioware ones, as their characters - not mine.  So even before voiceovers were introduced it was inevitable that I would be in favor of them.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 novembre 2010 - 10:58 .

[Ryzaki]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Well, the way I look at it is this:

All text: Hear all dialogue with internal voice.
All voiceover: Hear all dialogue, with, you know - ears.
VO w/ silent protagonist: Hear most dialogue with ears, protagonist with internal voice. While I can understand the appeal, it strikes me as "talking head theater" where characters are talking at me instead of with me.

Simply put I just prefer it when all characters are communicating on the same terms, consistency is generally something I value when it comes to immersion, which is a pretty subjective concept.

True its personal preference.

I hope to ra Hawke doesn't grate on my ears like Hale does. I will rage.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

The Masked Rog wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Fortlowe wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Fortlowe wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So eliminating any sort of choice at all is somehow supposed to be better than "cookie cutter" as you put it, swapping. Which isn't true since different armors had different stats but whatever.

As for the voice stuff, that remains to be seen if it is indeed "bettter" my gut tells me it won't be.

Is it better than what we had in DA:O? Yes, I think it is. Would I have liked to have some input on my companions look? Yes, very much so. But, not if that input robs the character of their visual individuality like it did in DA:O. I've said before in other threads that I would have preferred a piece meal system of visual alterations. Instead of having to collect complete armor sets, I'd rather collect uniquie crafting items to have unique pieces of armor made specifically for one companion or another. That, might be the case, but I'm not holding my breath. Even still, what we have been presented with is an improvement over the DA:O system, I think, because it serves the narrative better.

See I just cant understand the whole If a companion isn't wearing a particular outfit, they're all of a sudden not the same person. It just doesn't make any logical sense to me what so ever.

If changing their stats is the point of changing their armor sets, and swapping out belts, rings, and runes accomplishes the same thing, then why all the fuss?  That a characters visual identity remain consistent and unique to that character only serves to bolster that companions personality, I think. Logically, Sten and Allister shouldn't fit in the same set of armor. 

So although I agree with you on having player input for companion outfits, we disagree on the extent to which it should go. I want armor change, but I want it to serve both the gameplay and the narrative. Say, if Varric had the notion of getting in touch with his roots, I would like to find or have crafted a special armor only he can wear. I'd also want that armor to be a benchmark of sorts instead of upgrading only a few of his stats. Say increasing his baseline statitics ten or twenty percent.

That's not likely to be the case, but I still prefer the current  way of things to the muddled and unrewarding mess that was the previous system.

It goes beyond just changing stats, its a party based RPG, the player should have complete control over said party. I don't see how or why clothing a character wears should tie into the narrative of all things, I'm sure there's more important things to worry about than making sure Isabela looks "piratey" for the entire game so people can "relate" to her character, as if dialog input doesn't accomplish the same thing while giving those players that enjoy customization the ability to do it.

Its just another indication of Bioware going total opposite extreme to please the casual fans that don't care about customization.

BioWare is actually going completely hardcore here, screwing the n00bs who wanted to avoid real roleplay and thought they could make calls that are completely up to the individual NPC. For future games I want them to add a chance for us to have to talk to companions to upgrade their armors or change their outfits. Give them even more personality.

Oh right, you're that guy that expects companions to do everything for themselves without any user input. Why not just stay away from party based RPG's if you hate the idea of leveling and gearing out companions so much? Seems kinda masochistic to me.

[Meltemph]

Is everyone in this topic using "immersion" in the virtual reality sense(which is currently impossible) or the actual definition of it? I see people using "immersion" all the time, but I don't really get what they mean by it half the time.

I mean, as long as you are engrossed in the lore/story/characters or ect, that is all one needs to me "immersed"... I mean, it makes it seem like most mean that the 4th wall is broken, but I don't really see how, when you take into account what breaking the 4th wall requires.

Modifié par Meltemph, 13 novembre 2010 - 11:07 .

[Meltemph]

Why not just stay away from party based RPG's if you hate the idea of leveling and gearing out companions so much? Seems kinda masochistic to me.

NWN did this with its companions and not to mention... he is apparently getting what he wants, so I don't see the problem, really.

[upsettingshorts]

Here's the one I use, taken from the Wiki:

Narrative immersion
Narrative immersion occurs when players become invested in a story, and is similar to what is experienced while reading a book or watching a movie.

In the examples above that I say "kill" my immersion, it reminds me I'm not invested in a story, but am sitting in my computer chair in my room playing a video game. 

To make a comparison:  A fully voiced game is similar in experience, for me, to watching a movie.  A fully text game is similar in experience, for me, to reading a book.  A game that has a silent protagonist, for me, is like watching a movie and occasionally looking down to read a book.  So... it's jarring.  I prefer one or the other, and it's not because I dislike reading or dislike watching, I just don't want to be switching back and forth.  I'd rather pick one as it keeps me invested.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 novembre 2010 - 11:11 .

[Meltemph]

In the examples above that I say "kill" my immersion, it reminds me I'm not invested in a story, but am sitting in my computer chair in my room playing a video game.

So, you get to a point where you forget this when you get engrossed/immersed in a story? Huh... I dunno, I personally don't forget I'm actually playing a video game/reading a book or at least to the degree that, that is inferring.

[The Masked Rog]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Fortlowe wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Fortlowe wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So eliminating any sort of choice at all is somehow supposed to be better than "cookie cutter" as you put it, swapping. Which isn't true since different armors had different stats but whatever.

As for the voice stuff, that remains to be seen if it is indeed "bettter" my gut tells me it won't be.

Is it better than what we had in DA:O? Yes, I think it is. Would I have liked to have some input on my companions look? Yes, very much so. But, not if that input robs the character of their visual individuality like it did in DA:O. I've said before in other threads that I would have preferred a piece meal system of visual alterations. Instead of having to collect complete armor sets, I'd rather collect uniquie crafting items to have unique pieces of armor made specifically for one companion or another. That, might be the case, but I'm not holding my breath. Even still, what we have been presented with is an improvement over the DA:O system, I think, because it serves the narrative better.

See I just cant understand the whole If a companion isn't wearing a particular outfit, they're all of a sudden not the same person. It just doesn't make any logical sense to me what so ever.

If changing their stats is the point of changing their armor sets, and swapping out belts, rings, and runes accomplishes the same thing, then why all the fuss?  That a characters visual identity remain consistent and unique to that character only serves to bolster that companions personality, I think. Logically, Sten and Allister shouldn't fit in the same set of armor. 

So although I agree with you on having player input for companion outfits, we disagree on the extent to which it should go. I want armor change, but I want it to serve both the gameplay and the narrative. Say, if Varric had the notion of getting in touch with his roots, I would like to find or have crafted a special armor only he can wear. I'd also want that armor to be a benchmark of sorts instead of upgrading only a few of his stats. Say increasing his baseline statitics ten or twenty percent.

That's not likely to be the case, but I still prefer the current  way of things to the muddled and unrewarding mess that was the previous system.

It goes beyond just changing stats, its a party based RPG, the player should have complete control over said party. I don't see how or why clothing a character wears should tie into the narrative of all things, I'm sure there's more important things to worry about than making sure Isabela looks "piratey" for the entire game so people can "relate" to her character, as if dialog input doesn't accomplish the same thing while giving those players that enjoy customization the ability to do it.

Its just another indication of Bioware going total opposite extreme to please the casual fans that don't care about customization.

BioWare is actually going completely hardcore here, screwing the n00bs who wanted to avoid real roleplay and thought they could make calls that are completely up to the individual NPC. For future games I want them to add a chance for us to have to talk to companions to upgrade their armors or change their outfits. Give them even more personality.

Oh right, you're that guy that expects companions to do everything for themselves without any user input. Why not just stay away from party based RPG's if you hate the idea of leveling and gearing out companions so much? Seems kinda masochistic to me.

Oh you are that poster that enjoys meaninglessly labelling other posters! I'm so politically incorrect!
Because I love the idea of having a group of individuals follow me for their own reasons and with whom I must establish relationships. I thought Origins did this mostly well but it kind of broke my immersion that it used a double standard for roleplay. They certainly had very vivid and distinct personalities and were completely uncontrollable from a dialogue perspective, but suddenly it felt like I was them as I dressed (and even undressed!) them as I pleased. Why doesn't Leliana object to going into the Denerim Market almost naked? Why doesn't Sten protest if I equip him with a bow? I'm not saying these actions should be impossible, but they should require a degree of interaction with the companions. Either that or have us assume complete control of all our companions, including their personality. I would be completely fine with that. The Origins middle term solution strikes me as a bit incoherent.

[Aermas]

Can we stop with the long quotes? *Snip it in the bud please

They do what you say because you are the leader. So lead, follow, or get out of the way.