238 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Meltemph wrote...

In the examples above that I say "kill" my immersion, it reminds me I'm not invested in a story, but am sitting in my computer chair in my room playing a video game.

So, you get to a point where you forget this when you get engrossed/immersed in a story? Huh... I dunno, I personally don't forget I'm actually playing a video game/reading a book or at least to the degree that, that is inferring.

Me neither. Now it might jarr me (which Shep does) I feel like I'm choosing a pick my own adventure and suddenly the whole car veers off course and I'm left.

But I never forget that I'm playing a game.

[upsettingshorts]

I'm not sure "forget" got across the right idea. I'm not sure how to properly describe it.

It's the same feeling that allows a good movie to feel like it has gone by quickly relative to its running time. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 novembre 2010 - 11:21 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

The Masked Rog wrote...

Oh you are that poster that enjoys meaninglessly labelling other posters! I'm so politically incorrect!
Because I love the idea of having a group of individuals follow me for their own reasons and with whom I must establish relationships. I thought Origins did this mostly well but it kind of broke my immersion that it used a double standard for roleplay. They certainly had very vivid and distinct personalities and were completely uncontrollable from a dialogue perspective, but suddenly it felt like I was them as I dressed (and even undressed!) them as I pleased. Why doesn't Leliana object to going into the Denerim Market almost naked? Why doesn't Sten protest if I equip him with a bow? I'm not saying these actions should be impossible, but they should require a degree of interaction with the companions. Either that or have us assume complete control of all our companions, including their personality. I would be completely fine with that. The Origins middle term solution strikes me as a bit incoherent.

Because at the end of the day its a game and not real life? And the things you're annoyed about I doubt just about anyone else minds? Thats kinda the point of party based RPG's, to actually, you know, control a party.

[Meltemph]

Me neither. Now it might jarr me (which Shep does) I feel like I'm choosing a pick my own adventure and suddenly the whole car veers off course and I'm left.



But I never forget that I'm playing a game.

Lol! I dunno why, but that reminded me of the 1st time I saw Shep kiss Liara with a helmet on... Makes you think maybe the animators in that instant, needed a helmet also(I kid I kid).

[upsettingshorts]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Because at the end of the day its a game and not real life? And the things you're annoyed about I doubt just about anyone else minds? Thats kinda the point of party based RPG's, to actually, you know, control a party.

What if, like me, you only tolerated the whole "party based" part because you liked all the other features in the game?  The whole Tactics thing (with a mod or two) improved the game for me.  I prefer that the protagonist be the only PC.  AI of course makes this usually a damn mess, but being able to come up with my own "AI" was pretty cool.  Hope the DA:2 system is an improvement on the same idea.  

The "point" of any game is always often open to interpretation.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 novembre 2010 - 11:23 .

[The Masked Rog]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

Oh you are that poster that enjoys meaninglessly labelling other posters! I'm so politically incorrect!
Because I love the idea of having a group of individuals follow me for their own reasons and with whom I must establish relationships. I thought Origins did this mostly well but it kind of broke my immersion that it used a double standard for roleplay. They certainly had very vivid and distinct personalities and were completely uncontrollable from a dialogue perspective, but suddenly it felt like I was them as I dressed (and even undressed!) them as I pleased. Why doesn't Leliana object to going into the Denerim Market almost naked? Why doesn't Sten protest if I equip him with a bow? I'm not saying these actions should be impossible, but they should require a degree of interaction with the companions. Either that or have us assume complete control of all our companions, including their personality. I would be completely fine with that. The Origins middle term solution strikes me as a bit incoherent.

Because at the end of the day its a game and not real life? And the things you're annoyed about I doubt just about anyone else minds? Thats kinda the point of party based RPG's, to actually, you know, control a party.

YOur point? You have no way of knowing wether someone minds this issue. I think Maria Caliban expressed similar opinions. That's irrelevant though. It's my opinion. If all you can say about it is that nobody cares, how about you lead by example and go be obnoxious somewhere else? See, I can also be politically incorrect! Not insulting at all!

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

The Masked Rog wrote...

YOur point? You have no way of knowing wether someone minds this issue. I think Maria Caliban expressed similar opinions. That's irrelevant though. It's my opinion. If all you can say about it is that nobody cares, how about you lead by example and go be obnoxious somewhere else? See, I can also be politically incorrect! Not insulting at all!

Yeah using her as resource generally won't win you many points, since she's one of the people the outright asked for the ME2 treatment in the first place. "Oh please strip out customization so I can indentify with companions! pretty please Mr Gaider!"  bleh.

Modifié par CoS Sarah Jinstar, 13 novembre 2010 - 11:27 .

[Meltemph]

Because at the end of the day its a game and not real life? And the things you're annoyed about I doubt just about anyone else minds? Thats kinda the point of party based RPG's, to actually, you know, control a party.

I care if it leads artists to think it is cool to do a one size fits all, within my party. I like customization to, but I only like it with my party members when the armor is unique to the person. Sten should not be putting on Dwarven Armor, imo, for instance. Also, I think the homogenization of equipment is never a good thing, personally.



I like loot just as much as the next guy, but I don't like loot for the sake of loot. I want the loot to be unique enough that it doesn't feel like baddies I kill have a magical waist and shoulder line. For instance, the mod that adds a unique Noble Armor, to me is the right idea.



To each their own, but I think there are more then enough who prefer variety of equipment, when in terms of different characters.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Meltemph wrote...

Because at the end of the day its a game and not real life? And the things you're annoyed about I doubt just about anyone else minds? Thats kinda the point of party based RPG's, to actually, you know, control a party.

I care if it leads artists to think it is cool to do a one size fits all, within my party. I like customization to, but I only like it with my party members when the armor is unique to the person. Sten should not be putting on Dwarven Armor, imo, for instance. Also, I think the homogenization of equipment is never a good thing, personally.

I like loot just as much as the next guy, but I don't like loot for the sake of loot. I want the loot to be unique enough that it doesn't feel like baddies I kill have a magical waist and shoulder line. For instance, the mod that adds a unique Noble Armor, to me is the right idea.

To each their own, but I think there are more then enough who prefer variety of equipment, when in terms of different characters.

Take that up with the artists that decided Origin's only needed 3 variations of each armor, they worked on the game for 5+ years, you would have thought they could have churned out a few more unique looking armors.

I have no problem with more distinct looks for armor, but give me the ability to customize. Don't limit me to a one size fits all with companion gear as we're apparently getting.

[The Masked Rog]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

YOur point? You have no way of knowing wether someone minds this issue. I think Maria Caliban expressed similar opinions. That's irrelevant though. It's my opinion. If all you can say about it is that nobody cares, how about you lead by example and go be obnoxious somewhere else? See, I can also be politically incorrect! Not insulting at all!

Yeah using her as resource generally won't win you many points, since she's one of the people the outright asked for the ME2 treatment in the first place. "Oh please strip out customization so I can indentify with companions! pretty please Mr Gaider!"  bleh.

I totally agree with he about ME2 as well. It was a great step forward in action RPGs. But this is really off topic. I've said it once, and I'll say it again. I don't need anyone to want the same thing I want to ask for it. A couple of posters have really unpopular opinions here and they do express them. I don't seek approval.
I do think saying "It removes customization" is a bit simplistic a analysis of my post and does not consider the advantages my suggestion would give. And right now that's all you have to say about it (in addition to "nobody cares", of course).

[Ryzaki]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I'm not sure "forget" got across the right idea. I'm not sure how to properly describe it.

It's the same feeling that allows a good movie to feel like it has gone by quickly relative to its running time. 

Ah the "this is good..." and you settle and and the next thing you know its over? Yes I've gotten that feeling before but never with a BW game.

Meltemph wrote...

Lol!
I dunno why, but that reminded me of the 1st time I saw Shep kiss
Liara with a helmet on... Makes you think maybe the animators in that
instant, needed a helmet also(I kid I kid).

Oh god that was a wallbanger.

Even funnier for him to kiss him in the Collector armor.

For all the advantages unique companion armor gives I personally think it gives too many disadvantages in place of it.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 novembre 2010 - 11:36 .

[Meltemph]

Take that up with the artists that decided Origin's only needed 3 variations of each armor, they worked on the game for 5+ years, you would have thought they could have churned out a few more unique looking armors.

I agree, and I was complaining about it way, way back. That does not change the fact taht I can not do a whole lot about it. Customization and the uniquness that customization should bring is = to me. So while yes I would have liked customization, I sure as hell would not want the way DAO did it. Then again, I am not a huge fan of what Diablo and its ilk did, in terms of affecting games like BG/NWN. IMO, way to much damn loot.

I have no problem with more distinct looks for armor, but give me the ability to customize. Don't limit me to a one size fits all with companion gear as we're apparently getting.

Well ya, I would have liked customizing my character to, there is a reason a lot of games(FPS's/Sports/Fighters/ect) now-a-days is letting you customize your own characters, people like a unique look. However, I don't think trading the one and done, type outfits we have now are any more annoying then the magical awesomeness of spandex like armor we had in DAO either.



I'm hoping they at least will bleed me dry in terms of DLC gear changes. That to me, is better then the spandex armor that almost every single damn game uses anymore.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

The Masked Rog wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

YOur point? You have no way of knowing wether someone minds this issue. I think Maria Caliban expressed similar opinions. That's irrelevant though. It's my opinion. If all you can say about it is that nobody cares, how about you lead by example and go be obnoxious somewhere else? See, I can also be politically incorrect! Not insulting at all!

Yeah using her as resource generally won't win you many points, since she's one of the people the outright asked for the ME2 treatment in the first place. "Oh please strip out customization so I can indentify with companions! pretty please Mr Gaider!"  bleh.

I totally agree with he about ME2 as well. It was a great step forward in action RPGs. But this is really off topic. I've said it once, and I'll say it again. I don't need anyone to want the same thing I want to ask for it. A couple of posters have really unpopular opinions here and they do express them. I don't seek approval.
I do think saying "It removes customization" is a bit simplistic a analysis of my post and does not consider the advantages my suggestion would give. And right now that's all you have to say about it (in addition to "nobody cares", of course).

Of course you do, but you yourself have said that you'd perfer if the player doesn't even control the companions at all, in a party based CRPG. Which kinda defeats the whole purpose to begin with. Thats fine you want them to strip down as much of the game to make it simple. Its your opinion and you're entitled to it. It doesn't however make it suck any less that they're essentially doing that to appease one section of the fanbase.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Meltemph wrote...

Take that up with the artists that decided Origin's only needed 3 variations of each armor, they worked on the game for 5+ years, you would have thought they could have churned out a few more unique looking armors.

I agree, and I was complaining about it way, way back. That does not change the fact taht I can not do a whole lot about it. Customization and the uniquness that customization should bring is = to me. So while yes I would have liked customization, I sure as hell would not want the way DAO did it. Then again, I am not a huge fan of what Diablo and its ilk did, in terms of affecting games like BG/NWN. IMO, way to much damn loot.

I have no problem with more distinct looks for armor, but give me the ability to customize. Don't limit me to a one size fits all with companion gear as we're apparently getting.

Well ya, I would have liked customizing my character to, there is a reason a lot of games(FPS's/Sports/Fighters/ect) now-a-days is letting you customize your own characters, people like a unique look. However, I don't think trading the one and done, type outfits we have now are any more annoying then the magical awesomeness of spandex like armor we had in DAO either.

I'm hoping they at least will bleed me dry in terms of DLC gear changes. That to me, is better then the spandex armor that almost every single damn game uses anymore.

Paying more for something that should be in the game in the first place is not something that should be encouraged. Its bad enough they're pulling an Activision with the 60 dollar price tag on PC. (Not like they have any licensing fees on the pc to justify it) Hell the DLC angle was prolly the driving force behind the decision in the first place. Wouldn't suprise me one bit at this point.

[The Masked Rog]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

YOur point? You have no way of knowing wether someone minds this issue. I think Maria Caliban expressed similar opinions. That's irrelevant though. It's my opinion. If all you can say about it is that nobody cares, how about you lead by example and go be obnoxious somewhere else? See, I can also be politically incorrect! Not insulting at all!

Yeah using her as resource generally won't win you many points, since she's one of the people the outright asked for the ME2 treatment in the first place. "Oh please strip out customization so I can indentify with companions! pretty please Mr Gaider!"  bleh.

I totally agree with he about ME2 as well. It was a great step forward in action RPGs. But this is really off topic. I've said it once, and I'll say it again. I don't need anyone to want the same thing I want to ask for it. A couple of posters have really unpopular opinions here and they do express them. I don't seek approval.
I do think saying "It removes customization" is a bit simplistic a analysis of my post and does not consider the advantages my suggestion would give. And right now that's all you have to say about it (in addition to "nobody cares", of course).

Of course you do, but you yourself have said that you'd perfer if the player doesn't even control the companions at all, in a party based CRPG. Which kinda defeats the whole purpose to begin with. Thats fine you want them to strip down as much of the game to make it simple. Its your opinion and you're entitled to it. It doesn't however make it suck any less that they're essentially doing that to appease one section of the fanbase.

So having to actually negotiate with companions to select their equipment makes it simpler? I'd say it makes it more deep, because it adds another dimension to the NPC companions' personality. But now they are appeasing one entire section of the fanbase? I thought I was alone in this. Oh well, it's good to have company.

[Piecake]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

YOur point? You have no way of knowing wether someone minds this issue. I think Maria Caliban expressed similar opinions. That's irrelevant though. It's my opinion. If all you can say about it is that nobody cares, how about you lead by example and go be obnoxious somewhere else? See, I can also be politically incorrect! Not insulting at all!

Yeah using her as resource generally won't win you many points, since she's one of the people the outright asked for the ME2 treatment in the first place. "Oh please strip out customization so I can indentify with companions! pretty please Mr Gaider!"  bleh.

I totally agree with he about ME2 as well. It was a great step forward in action RPGs. But this is really off topic. I've said it once, and I'll say it again. I don't need anyone to want the same thing I want to ask for it. A couple of posters have really unpopular opinions here and they do express them. I don't seek approval.
I do think saying "It removes customization" is a bit simplistic a analysis of my post and does not consider the advantages my suggestion would give. And right now that's all you have to say about it (in addition to "nobody cares", of course).

Of course you do, but you yourself have said that you'd perfer if the player doesn't even control the companions at all, in a party based CRPG. Which kinda defeats the whole purpose to begin with. Thats fine you want them to strip down as much of the game to make it simple. Its your opinion and you're entitled to it. It doesn't however make it suck any less that they're essentially doing that to appease one section of the fanbase.

How are you any different?  Your views and opinions of the game also make up one section of the fanbase.  It seems you are basically saying that Bioware should appease you.

[crimzontearz]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Sarah, you know I've been meaning to say this for a while but your arguments about the dialogue wheel make very little sense in a pratcival point of view...

Often times in ME2 I would pick something  and it would come out entirely different than what the wheel choice said. Whats hard to understand there? So you're essentially left guessing what exactly will be said. I want to roleplay MY character, not have the entirety of the game be some random dialog choice that I didn't really want to choose.

This is pretty much why I'm against a voiced protagonist in the first place. I don't mind reading text, it doesn't break my immersion.

Roleplay your Character?

ok.....well....ever played a PnP game? I assume you did, you at least speak as if you did. in a CRPG you cannot roleplay your character, not really, you cannot react with the freedom you would in a true pen and paper RPG you can only pick from a string of pre determined answers. Isn't that preventing you from roleplaying your character properly? by your reasoning it is perhaps a worse offense than paraphrasing.

At least in ME1 and 2 I could tell which responses would further the conversation and which would not. In Dao I could inadvertitely move the conversation along while I wanted only to ask for details. 

Paraphrasing  does not limit your choices, you character would have spoken those words wether you picked them from a full fledged list or otherwise from a dialogue wheel, the only difference is the format you pick from and now with the indicator you know which direction those choices are gonna lean toward which will not leave you guessing anymore at least not to your intentions....

intentions...for that matter how often did people inadvertitely flirt with Zevran because the intentions of some replies were not clear?

I digress...I hope you get my point

[upsettingshorts]

It does seem that, and for once I'm not attempting to take a thinly veiled swipe at CoS Sarah Jinstar, in a lot of cases on this forum - regardless of their opinions of DA:2, that when posters say they want to focus on one thing or another that people who disagree with them assume they want a reduction in complexity, when they just want a change in where that complexity is centered.

For example when I say I only want to control my protagonist, that means that I want the level of depth in his or her character design to be increased at the expense of everything else. Without getting into details of how that would work and what would have to be changed elsewhere, it doesn't mean I want the game to be simpler - I want it to be just as thought provoking and challenging as it was before.

In short: Often it's about the nature of the choice, not the amount or difficulty of them, that separates us on the forums.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 novembre 2010 - 11:51 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Piecake wrote...

How are you any different?  Your views and opinions of the game also make up one section of the fanbase.  It seems you are basically saying that Bioware should appease you.

I've said many many times they could try and find a middle ground to appease everyone. reading comprehension ftw!

[Meltemph]

Paying more for something that should be in the game in the first place is not something that should be encouraged. Its bad enough they're pulling an Activision with the 60 dollar price tag on PC. (Not like they have any licensing fees on the pc to justify it) Hell the DLC angle was prolly the driving force behind the decision in the first place. Wouldn't suprise me one bit at this point.

Maybe you are right, but me personally, I am willing to pay anything, if it means I can finally see a change in trends that has plagued games for so long(homogenization). The spandex gear approach has never been cool or appealing to me. I would much rather have a lot less armor if it means distinctly different looking gear/characters/animations(after all not everyone has broad shoulders, swings a bat, or throws a ball the same way).



If there is one thing I have never liked in the video game world, it is the homogenization of aesthetics.

[The Masked Rog]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Piecake wrote...

How are you any different?  Your views and opinions of the game also make up one section of the fanbase.  It seems you are basically saying that Bioware should appease you.

I've said many many times they could try and find a middle ground to appease everyone. reading comprehension ftw!

They did! You still can change weapons and other trinkets as if you actually controlled that party member.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

The Masked Rog wrote...

So having to actually negotiate with companions to select their equipment makes it simpler? I'd say it makes it more deep, because it adds another dimension to the NPC companions' personality. But now they are appeasing one entire section of the fanbase? I thought I was alone in this. Oh well, it's good to have company.

Except you're not getting that, you have one set outfit that you can add runes to to maybe change a stat here or there. Yay so deep and engaging!  Theres no negotiation involved.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

The Masked Rog wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Piecake wrote...

How are you any different?  Your views and opinions of the game also make up one section of the fanbase.  It seems you are basically saying that Bioware should appease you.

I've said many many times they could try and find a middle ground to appease everyone. reading comprehension ftw!

They did! You still can change weapons and other trinkets as if you actually controlled that party member.

LOL right, Oh goody I can change a ring! OH WOW! **** AWESOME! yeah sorry not buying it.

[crimzontearz]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

So having to actually negotiate with companions to select their equipment makes it simpler? I'd say it makes it more deep, because it adds another dimension to the NPC companions' personality. But now they are appeasing one entire section of the fanbase? I thought I was alone in this. Oh well, it's good to have company.

Except you're not getting that, you have one set outfit that you can add runes to to maybe change a stat here or there. Yay so deep and engaging!  Theres no negotiation involved.

you are assuming that  the enhancing items and runes will be shallow and nearly useless

you do not know that, if they are akin to the items in  PST they will be more than usefu

[The Masked Rog]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Piecake wrote...

How are you any different?  Your views and opinions of the game also make up one section of the fanbase.  It seems you are basically saying that Bioware should appease you.

I've said many many times they could try and find a middle ground to appease everyone. reading comprehension ftw!

They did! You still can change weapons and other trinkets as if you actually controlled that party member.

LOL right, Oh goody I can change a ring! OH WOW! **** AWESOME! yeah sorry not buying it.

Frankly it sucks that I get to select what a companion that totally dislikes me wears in his fingers. I don't buy it either. Isn't it just amazing we have something in common?

They have taken a step in the right direction by removing some of our control from companions while they allow them to express their personality through their outfits. Call it simplification, but I don't think every siplification is bad.

Modifié par The Masked Rog, 13 novembre 2010 - 11:57 .