221 réponses à ce sujet

[Archereon]

...and a shift away from more hardcore RPG nature of its predecessor...

Here's another statement, this time from the G4 Dragon Age Preview.  Its in gross conflict with the statements devs give on the fourms regarding the gameplay changes between Dragon Age 1 and Dragon Age 2, just like practically other source besides Bioware itself...I'm starting to wonder if this is an intentional marketing ploy...
While that's fine and good, if more than a bit dishonest, if your just giving the impression to every reviewer who demos your game that Dragon Age 2 is moving towards Hack and Slash gameplay for marketing purposes (draw in the twitch gameplay and Mass Effect fans, while depending on your loyal fans to buy it anyway and be pleasantly surpirsed), I'm beginning to wonder if we on the forums are the one's who are being lied to...Seriously, every reviewer who's demoed DA2 (that I can think of) has been claiming that the game has been "streamlined" (read: dumbed down).  Some of them even called it an outright Hack and Slash, and that's starting to worry me more and more as Bioware seemingly refuses to ask for corrections.

TL;DR: Why the hell is Bioware content to have every single reviewer they allowed to demo the game call Dragon Age 2 a hack and slash, claim its been dumbed down for the greater good of casuals (no offense to casual gamers, its just the way certain reviewers talk...), or even go so far as to say that Bioware is finally moving away from the dreaded RPG genre (yes, one person actually said that.)?

[Absafraginlootly]

Why is Cassandra in the title of this thread?

[hexaligned]

Marketing, dishonest? Neva!

[Archereon]

Absafraginlootly wrote...

Why is Cassandra in the title of this thread?

Eh, its a Tvtroper thing...You'd understand if you went to Tvtropes...You'd happen upon it eventually.

[Saibh]

Absafraginlootly wrote...

Why is Cassandra in the title of this thread?

A "Cassandra truth" is named after Princess Cassandra from the Iliad, who was cursed to see the future but no one would ever believe her. TVTropes.

In any case, different reviewers have different opinions. G4 literally said nothing I did not know. They just had a different take on it. Honestly, you're the one being misleading--the article itself says it's more action-y, but the strategic and tactical nature is still in place. If they feel it's less "hardcore", fine.

edit: And, by the way, the devs have never misled us about it being an action RPG, or that things are being streamlined, sped-up, and taken a flair for action. I don't think I've felt lied to about DA2.

Modifié par Saibh, 13 novembre 2010 - 03:42 .

[Gill Kaiser]

He means Cassandra, the prophetess who foresaw the destruction of Troy.

[Absafraginlootly]

@Archereon



Ah, I was thinking of Cassandra the charactor.

[Archereon]

Saibh wrote...

Absafraginlootly wrote...

Why is Cassandra in the title of this thread?

A "Cassandra truth" is named after Princess Cassandra from the Iliad, who was cursed to see the future but no one would ever believe her. TVTropes.

In any case, different reviewers have different opinions. G4 literally said nothing I did not know. They just had a different take on it. They said it's more action-y, but the strategic and tactical nature is still in place. If they feel it's less "hardcore", fine.

The fact that they cited ME2's system (though its a good concept (to some), many people, including the person who designed it (said so over twitter) think it could have used quite a bit more work.) isn't encouraging to what they're seeing in Dragon Age 2.

Modifié par Archereon, 13 novembre 2010 - 03:41 .

[namedforthemoon]

If they're only getting to review the demo that we've seen, it's all mostly fighting, anyway. So if you saw something that was mostly fighting, wouldn't you think it was a hack and slash vs an RPG?

[Archereon]

filaminstrel wrote...

I don't know that they've ever outright denied that it could be a shift away from "hardcore" under some definitions-- you could interpret Laidlaw's statement about how you shouldn't need to bust out a calculator and look up some damage tables as supporting this assertion in a sense. They simply refuse to make one sentence statements like that without qualification/nuance. You can choose to see that as obfuscation and dishonesty if you want, I suppose.

Its more that most reviewers are saying things like

"Its becoming more like Mass Effect, which is a good thing" (G4 said this almost word for word)

"You press buttons, something awesome happens, no need for tactics, need need for inventory managment and all that boring stuff" (oh god have a lot of people been going on about this)

"They're moving away from sucky gameplay, sucky graphics, and a decent story to WICKED gamplay, decent graphics, and therefore a L33T story!!!" (One reviewer said something along the lines of this)

Namedfor: If they're playing combat, it should be rather obvious, you know that its not just mindless button spamming.

Modifié par Archereon, 13 novembre 2010 - 03:44 .

[bsbcaer]

Archereon wrote...

...and a shift away from more hardcore RPG nature of its predecessor...

Here's another statement, this time from the G4 Dragon Age Preview.  Its in gross conflict with the statements devs give on the fourms regarding the gameplay changes between Dragon Age 1 and Dragon Age 2, just like practically other source besides Bioware itself...I'm starting to wonder if this is an intentional marketing ploy...
While that's fine and good, if more than a bit dishonest, if your just giving the impression to every reviewer who demos your game that Dragon Age 2 is moving towards Hack and Slash gameplay for marketing purposes (draw in the twitch gameplay and Mass Effect fans, while depending on your loyal fans to buy it anyway and be pleasantly surpirsed), I'm beginning to wonder if we on the forums are the one's who are being lied to...Seriously, every reviewer who's demoed DA2 (that I can think of) has been claiming that the game has been "streamlined" (read: dumbed down).  Some of them even called it an outright Hack and Slash, and that's starting to worry me more and more as Bioware seemingly refuses to ask for corrections.

TL;DR: Why the hell is Bioware content to have every single reviewer they allowed to demo the game call Dragon Age 2 a hack and slash, claim its been dumbed down for the greater good of casuals (no offense to casual gamers, its just the way certain reviewers talk...), or even go so far as to say that Bioware is finally moving away from the dreaded RPG genre (yes, one person actually said that.)?

Well, the only thing I can suggest is that the reviewers have had access to the console versions in which the combat has been streamlined or "dumbed down" (if you prefer) and none of the demos have been for the PC (which apparently everyone and their dog seems to think is the bees knees...I've only played 360 and I really enjoyed my experiences).  Wait until you see a PC only preview and see how things go and just focus on previews on your preferred platform.

[Saibh]

Archereon wrote...

The fact that they cited ME2's system (though its a good concept (to some), many people, including the person who designed it (said so over twitter) think it could have used quite a bit more work.) isn't encouraging to what they're seeing in Dragon Age 2.

What they said is that it took a more streamlined approach, and looks less like it's piling numbers on you to sort out.

We've seen the talent tree, which is extensive. Hawke still has an Origins inventory. Our companions' visually static armor is upgradable.

What the review did not say is the majority of talents have been removed in favor of only a few with four different levels, the armor being static, or tactics being removed or anything similar.

Again, the devs have never lied to us. One of the first things they said is that they're taking cues from ME and DAO, and putting them together. They've called it an action RPG from the get-go, as well.

Modifié par Saibh, 13 novembre 2010 - 03:51 .

[Archereon]

Bsbcaer: How much would I bet that Bioware is exaggerating the difference between PC and console? Quite a bit. Companies tend to exagerate. A lot.

[slimgrin]

The reviews have been discouraging from the beginning, but they don't exactly epitomize good journalism either.

It's what Laidlaw and the other devs have said on the forums that keeps me interested in the game. The Xbox box reviews suck, plain and simple. And what they take away from demos is a little off-putting for me as an rpg enthusiast.

I've said it a dozen times now, the marketing for the DA franchise avoids a straightforward approach.

Modifié par slimgrin, 13 novembre 2010 - 03:50 .

[Archereon]

slimgrin wrote...

The reviews have been discouraging from the beginning, but they don't exactly epitomize good journalism either.

It's what Laidlaw and the other devs have said on the forums that keeps me interested in the game. The Xbox box reviews suck, plain and simple. And what they take away from demos is a little off-putting for me as an rpg enthusiast.

I've said it a dozen times now, the marketing for the DA franchise avoids a straightforward approach.

Why aren't they even trying to get the higher profile reviewers to correct themselves?  While people who might not buy the game might be turned on by the inaccuracies, its just as likely someone who wanted the game will be put off when a usually credible source (IGN for example) says that the game is less of an RPG and more of an AWESOME Action game (some high profile reviewer said that, not sure who it was, but it wasn't IGN)

[abat223]

You've been posting negative stuff for a while now.. based on 10 minutes of a demo that was released months ago.. why don't you go outside, or just wait for reviews?

[LTD]

Archereon wrote...

TL;DR: Why the hell is Bioware content to have every single reviewer they allowed to demo the game call Dragon Age 2 a hack and slash, claim its been dumbed down for the greater good of casuals...

Maybe because there is a good possibility that's exactly what we will be having? Any and all info I've come across regarding  game mechanics screams simplification and downgrading the action of DA:O to a ballbark of  Devil May Cry clones.

[ClonePatrol]

Absafraginlootly wrote...

@Archereon

Ah, I was thinking of Cassandra the charactor.

I'm pretty sure it was also a pun on said charactors name.

[slimgrin]

Archereon wrote...

Bsbcaer: How much would I bet that Bioware is exaggerating the difference between PC and console? Quite a bit. Companies tend to exagerate. A lot.

And yet the differences between DA:O on console and pc are indeed huge.

So we're left speculating while reviewers of the game say stuff like,  "ZOWWWIE! THAT WAS SOOO FREAKIN AWESOME DUDE! He sploded into lil' bloody bits!!!"

[Archereon]

abat223 wrote...

You've been posting negative stuff for a while now.. based on 10 minutes of a demo that was released months ago.. why don't you go outside, or just wait for reviews?

Insomnia sucks man...And so does waiting...Besides, there are a LOT of reviews out there already, and they're all saying the same discouraging things.

Maybe because there is a good possibility that's exactly what we
will be having? Any and all info I've come across regarding  game
mechanics screams simplification and downgrading the action of DA:O to a
ballbark of  Devil May Cry clones.

I REALLY REALLY hope that's not true.  Unless the execs decide its time to cut Dragon Age (IE: by sending it out with a bang of fail), there's no way Bioware would go all the way to Hack and Slash.

Modifié par Archereon, 13 novembre 2010 - 03:59 .

[abat223]

Archereon wrote...

abat223 wrote...

You've been posting negative stuff for a while now.. based on 10 minutes of a demo that was released months ago.. why don't you go outside, or just wait for reviews?

Insomnia sucks man...And so does waiting...Besides, there are a LOT of reviews out there already, and they're all saying the same discouraging things.

Yes, they are all saying the same things, about the same 10 minutes of storyless, meaningless gameplay.

I played the demo for ME2 on xbox live and i thought it was crap, and then my wife surprised me with it for a holiday gift, and i decided to open and play it.. it was awesome..

[Saibh]

LTD wrote...

Archereon wrote...

TL;DR: Why the hell is Bioware content to have every single reviewer they allowed to demo the game call Dragon Age 2 a hack and slash, claim its been dumbed down for the greater good of casuals...

Maybe because there is a good possibility that's exactly what we will be having? Any and all info I've come across regarding  game mechanics screams simplification and downgrading the action of DA:O to a ballbark of  Devil May Cry clones.

Despite the actual review saying it still retains its tactical nuance? And despite us having seen the talent tree and Hawke's inventory?

In any case, I'm never sure why so many people insist you had to play DAO with pause-and-play tactics, when you didn't. You could map your talents and just mash the buttons over and over and that worked. You never had to touch your companions or direct them at all.

Modifié par Saibh, 13 novembre 2010 - 04:01 .

[Archereon]

Saibh wrote...

LTD wrote...

Archereon wrote...

TL;DR: Why the hell is Bioware content to have every single reviewer they allowed to demo the game call Dragon Age 2 a hack and slash, claim its been dumbed down for the greater good of casuals...

Maybe because there is a good possibility that's exactly what we will be having? Any and all info I've come across regarding  game mechanics screams simplification and downgrading the action of DA:O to a ballbark of  Devil May Cry clones.

Despite the actual review saying it still retains its tactical nuance? And despite us having seen the talent tree and Hawke's inventory?

While I'm inclined to say your at least partially right, I wouldn't put it past most companies (Bioware included unfortunately, as they are prone to, and I'm using a technical term, borderline bull****ing the initial details about their game...Just look at what ME1 was advertized as at first...) to create a scripted inventory system and talent tree just for show, baiting a switching.  

The best part for them is that they couldn't possibility get sued for outright lying about their product, since unreleased video games are "subject to change."