221 réponses à ce sujet

[Beaner28]

Well...I think World of Warcraft pretty much takes the cake when it comes to dumbing down a game to rake in the sales.

In this case, the independent reviewers at G4 and Game Informer don't have any reason to lie to us so I'll take their word over BioWare's.

DA 2 is being dumbed down.

Modifié par Beaner28, 13 novembre 2010 - 01:52 .

[Archereon]

Beaner28 wrote...

Well...I think World of Warcraft pretty much takes the cake when it comes to dumbing down a game to rake in the sales.

And yet the game currently requires more Number Crunching (or looking online) than DA:O on nightmare...

[-Semper-]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Well I suppose you would be in a position to know, where as they are in the dark and working on guess work alone.

they are in the position to market a game and to keep the sales high. my long time experience tells me to never trust commercials^^

[FedericoV]

-Semper- wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

Personally, I think that they should choose one direction and design the game accordingly to that choice.

that's all i want to say: indifferent how often bioware states that da2 will have the same gameplay as in da:o, it simply won't be... or at least my assumption tells me so. time will tell

I've never played DA:O on the consolles and I've played DA2 demo on the Xbox. I know that interface and commands make a lot of difference. But having seen many DA:O's consolle videos on the web, I can say that it's not the same gameplay, but that it's not THAT different. But that's what Bioware was saying since the beginning.

Imho, DA2 is a more refined and actiony attempt to blend together action and tactical gameplay, wich is DA's goal since Origins. It's a very ambitious goal. IN DA:O the result was good but not excellent. When we will be able to play the final thing we will see if DA2 succeded where DA:O failed (at least in part).

[Ziggeh]

-Semper- wrote...

they are in the position to market a game and to keep the sales high. my long time experience tells me to never trust commercials^^

So wait, your position is that you don't trust the commericials that are making a big deal of the new gameplay?

[Ziggeh]

Beaner28 wrote...

Well...I think World of Warcraft pretty much takes the cake when it comes to dumbing down a game to rake in the sales.

In this case, the independent reviewers at G4 and Game Informer don't have any reason to lie to us so I'll take their word over BioWare's.

DA 2 is being dumbed down.

It's faulty syllogism day!

[Taritu]

Y'know, DA:O outsold either ME game. Just sayin'. Maybe more "ME like" is a bad business decision?

[upsettingshorts]

Taritu wrote...

Y'know, DA:O outsold either ME game. Just sayin'. Maybe more "ME like" is a bad business decision?

Maybe they're not making the decision for business reasons, but creative ones!

...it'd be like a thousand EA haters cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

[Apollo Starflare]

Yeah the thing 'not to believe' if you are convinced games companies always lie to sell their products would be the actual marketing spiel, y'know the 'hot rodded' stuff that certain parties are displeased with. If you choose not to believe the marketing lines then you are left with the developer posts written (sometimes on their own time) on this forum, most of which point towards the game being very much like Dragon Age: Origins. If you choose not to believe the developers then that is something quite different, they aren't here trying to sell the game to you with words (that's marketing's job) they are just trying to keep us in the know where they can.

Everyone's favourite example of a 'lying developer' is Peter Molyneux, and it should be pointed out that all of that comes from him doing the marketing thang as well. He just tended to get carried away, he toned it right down for Fable 3. Considering their track record I don't see how people find it so easy to believe the Bioware team are lying about Dragon Age 2 being like Origins with new combat animations etc.

Taritu wrote...

Y'know, DA:O outsold either ME game. Just sayin'. Maybe more "ME like" is a bad business decision?

It's nothing like Mass Effect. Even the companion costumes and voiced protagonist (the only similarities) work very differently in Dragon Age 2. So I don't think that'll realy factor in.

[Ziggeh]

Apollo Starflare wrote...
It's nothing like Mass Effect. Even the companion costumes and voiced protagonist (the only similarities) work very differently in Dragon Age 2. So I don't think that'll realy factor in.

It's just a really easy comparison for journalists to make. "It is more like something you are already aware of" is better copy than explaining the nuances of any new system. It's not their job to give accurate information, it's their job to create something people want to read.

[Beaner28]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Taritu wrote...

Y'know, DA:O outsold either ME game. Just sayin'. Maybe more "ME like" is a bad business decision?

Maybe they're not making the decision for business reasons, but creative ones!

...it'd be like a thousand EA haters cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

You got a clever Star Wars reference in there. +10

[upsettingshorts]

Yep, even a recent preview of LA Noire name-dropped Mass Effect. Guess what, those games are going to be very different. But in the case it was being used - a paraphrase standing in for a larger line of dialogue - it makes more sense to use it as an example than to spend a paragraph explaining what that means and then how they're different. Especially in a preview that is just supposed to give you an idea.

The article in question was four pages long already.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 novembre 2010 - 02:53 .

[ErichHartmann]

Archereon wrote...

Beaner28 wrote...

Well...I think World of Warcraft pretty much takes the cake when it comes to dumbing down a game to rake in the sales.

And yet the game currently requires more Number Crunching (or looking online) than DA:O on nightmare...

Then go back to Warcraft if that's all you care about.  I play BioWare games for the stories. 

[Beaner28]

Archereon wrote...

Beaner28 wrote...

Well...I think World of Warcraft pretty much takes the cake when it comes to dumbing down a game to rake in the sales.

And yet the game currently requires more Number Crunching (or looking online) than DA:O on nightmare...

DA:O was never balanced around DPS. LOL?

[Beaner28]

ErichHartmann wrote...

I play BioWare games for the stories. 

I don't know about you but I play for romancing and the sex scenes.

[Ziggeh]

Beaner28 wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Beaner28 wrote...

Well...I think World of Warcraft pretty much takes the cake when it comes to dumbing down a game to rake in the sales.

And yet the game currently requires more Number Crunching (or looking online) than DA:O on nightmare...

DA:O was never balanced around DPS. LOL?

He's speaking to the complexity. You said that WoW was "dumb", when it is vastly more complex than DA:O.

This doesn't mean a lot because they're not comparable. Which is why mentioning it in the first place was kind of pointless.

[Saibh]

Beaner28 wrote...

Well...I think World of Warcraft pretty much takes the cake when it comes to dumbing down a game to rake in the sales.

In this case, the independent reviewers at G4 and Game Informer don't have any reason to lie to us so I'll take their word over BioWare's.

DA 2 is being dumbed down.

Alright, this review had this to say:

The action, while still offering players the option to micro-manage their strategy, was considerably more fluid and action-oriented than in the previous game...

Switching between the members of your four-person party, you can choose to closely manage the battle through the game’s menu system or simply assign your attacks...

I'm not sure if other people just...didn't read the review or something, but the review itself makes the distinction that strategy and tactical gameplay are still there. But you don't need to do that. And you didn't need to it in Origins, either. It was just incredibly boring and, at times, frustrating, watching everyone bump into each other and shuffle around getting into place.

Modifié par Saibh, 13 novembre 2010 - 03:17 .

[Leonia]

Beaner28 wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

I play BioWare games for the stories. 

I don't know about you but I play for romancing and the sex scenes.

Get a girlfriend? They also make these Japanese dolls.. just saying..

[Brockololly]

Apollo Starflare wrote...
It's nothing like Mass Effect. Even the companion costumes and voiced protagonist (the only similarities) work very differently in Dragon Age 2. So I don't think that'll realy factor in.

Sure its not a third person cover shooter set in space with aliens. But the point most previewers are getting at by consistently saying DA2 is getting the ME2 treatment is that its getting streamlined and adopting a very very similar presentation to ME. You can say the voiced PC is vastly different in DA2 to ME2, but the only difference I'm seeing is the emotion icon, which seems to me like a glorified paragon/renegade system, just giving you a sarcastic middle option. 

Saibh wrote...
I'm not sure if other people just...didn't read the review or something, but the review itself makes the distinction that strategy and tactical gameplay are still there. But
you don't need to do that. And you didn't need to it in Origins,
either.

Right but the worrisome quote to me reads:

The action, while still offering players the option to micro-manage their  strategy, was considerably more fluid and action-oriented than in the  previous game, requiring less pause-and-play for those who simply want  to map their abilities and mash a few buttons.

My whole concern with the emphasis on the "amped up" combat is that I don't want to button mash at all. And yet we've yet to read any one preview that says how the tactical/pause and play side of things has been improved or expanded upon; just that the need to play tactically is marginalized by the faster action. Its like in ME2- sure you can pause and play, but given the speed of combat, its rendered somewhat pointless. 

It comes down to balance and encounter/level design- is the game designed to be played to emphasize mashing or does it ever require any tactics whic require pause and play?

Modifié par Brockololly, 13 novembre 2010 - 04:14 .

[Ziggeh]

Brockololly wrote...

It comes down to balance and encounter/level design- is the game designed to be played to emphasize mashing or does it ever require any tactics whic require pause and play?

The devs have been amazingly clear on that point.

[Harcken]

I agree with the OP, and think it's probably a marketing ploy. Bioware knows their loyal fans will buy the game anyway, guarantying them 2 mil+ of sales. However, marketing (it's their job) is probably trying to grab an extra million or two, buy attracting the eye of a twitch gamer. That then leads to A) Twitch gamer plays for 5 minutes then throws the game out because it wasn't like he imagined or Twitch gamer enjoys RPG and starts to buy more.

[L33TDAWG]

Let's take into consideration that they usually put the game demo on easy when it is being played by the public at huge events that way no one gets too frustrated or seem like they are incompetent.. In some cases you may be able to adjust it to normal.

[Saibh]

Brockololly wrote...

My whole concern with the emphasis on the "amped up" combat is that I don't want to button mash at all. And yet we've yet to read any one preview that says how the tactical/pause and play side of things has been improved or expanded upon; just that the need to play tactically is marginalized by the faster action.

I'm not sure how anyone would say the tactical part has been improved upon without experiencing the game for a couple of hours to determine companion AI, response to tactics, levelling, and so on. All they can really say is "It's still there".

It just seems to me the review is saying that combat plays with more fluidity due to a faster and more reactive system. I could play DAO on the console without pausing, without directing companions, even without touching the preset companion tactics (as I did on my first playthrough). It was still very slow and meandering, and I'd say that you couldn't really market being able to play that way because it didn't feel like that. You felt like you were clicking buttons and waiting for something to happen (I cringe writing that as I think "button...AWESOME!").

Technically the style is no different than my party immediately reacting, but it'll probably feel different to me.

Its like in ME2- sure you can pause and play, but given the speed of combat, its rendered somewhat pointless.

I never, ever, ever had to pause and play for ME1, either. I don't even consider that really a valid tactic, other than to occasionally aim.

It comes down to balance and encounter/level design- is the game designed to be played to emphasize mashing or does it ever require any tactics whic require pause and play?

As I said--you never needed to play DAO with pause-and-play. But combat really wasn't fun unless you liked tactics. I think the emphasis being placed is, just as before, you can play without pausing but it's just more fun now.

Modifié par Saibh, 13 novembre 2010 - 04:29 .

[Luigitornado]

...oh boi...

I'm one of those fans who have been looking forward to a new experience.

However...lately my enthusiasm has been...not as vigor as it once was.

Modifié par Luigitornado, 13 novembre 2010 - 04:46 .

[MerinTB]

Saibh wrote...
And, by the way, the devs have never misled us about it being an action RPG

I'm not mining for the various quotes, so my memory may be shoddy, but I distinictly remember seeing different devs post here the following:

- DA2 is NOT an action RPG
- what does action RPG even mean? the words are meaningless, calm down
- DA:O  WAS an action RPG, so of course DA2 is

It's been all over the board, their responses on the forums.