221 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Archereon wrote...
While I'm not going to start this argument, even if Laidlaw was wholley against all the changes he wouldn't speak of.  It's not worth loosing your job over a game.

This is just confused. Laidlaw didn't have to be the lead on DA2 if he didn't want it. You think he couldn't have slotted himself in somewhere else at Bio, or even some other company?

Edit: unless the argument is that he got the job and then "they" changed directions on him. That's the only way this works, since if they knew that DA2 was going to go this route they would given the lead designer job to someone who believed in it.

Modifié par AlanC9, 13 novembre 2010 - 10:29 .

[Archereon]

AlanC9 wrote...

Archereon wrote...
While I'm not going to start this argument, even if Laidlaw was wholley against all the changes he wouldn't speak of.  It's not worth loosing your job over a game.

This is just confused. Laidlaw didn't have to be the lead on DA2 if he didn't want it. You think he couldn't have slotted himself in somewhere else at Bio, or even some other company?

Edit: unless the argument is that he got the job and then "they" changed directions on him.

Who knows?  He could've taken it for the money, I don't know enough about this guy to make a judgement on that, though I do know most people don't care enough about games to sacrifice a significant pay raise, its the decision I'd make honestly.

[AlanC9]

But then he'd have had to have been lying to everybody he works with about how he thinks games should be, all the time. You think they don't talk about this stuff?

[Archereon]

AlanC9 wrote...

But then he'd have had to have been lying to everybody he works with about how he thinks games should be, all the time. You think they don't talk about this stuff?

They problably do.  And honestly, I would guess that most of them understand that it just isn't worth it to throw away a job, or a significant pay rise over a game.

[Morroian]

Archereon wrote...

It detracts from the tactical experience if you have to concentrate so much on pulling off attack and dodging combos (what with the new click/press to attack system, the combo system, and the active dodging).  And I still mantain that the differences between the PC and console are likely exagerated.  

Tthe PC version has auto attack turned on by default and the console version does not. How is that exagerrated? That fact alone plus the ability to pause and give orders makes it still tactical.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Archereon wrote...

The problem there is that it's going to force you to micromanage one character, and one character only, unlike in DA:O where you controlled the whole party...Which will now be useless, barring absurd health bonuses to NPCs, thanks to either

A. Godawful AI regarding the active dodges

or

B. No AI at all in active dodges

Or, C. They got it wrong and there is no active dodge.

In fact, there was a very clear rule about active dodging and defenses put down in my first combat design doc that said I believed that active dodges would fail in a party-based game, because the player would feel as if he could only play the "tank" of the party in order to have maximum effectiveness.

[upsettingshorts]

A poster? Wrong? In my forum? In any case based on your design doc I think you're right. If you did implement it, I'd be playing the tank.

Also, if you're still here - wondering if you had a comment on the whole "action RPG" term thing:

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Well, the way "action RPG" is used on the forum - and in marketing - seems to be entirely about perception more than any objective deviation from a set of features. I think Mike Laidlaw might have use for my distinction: Action RPGs incorporate twitch mechanics, RPGs do not.

By that definition, Mass Effect 1-2 are action RPGs, and DA:O/2 are not. It might not make for sexy actiony marketing, but at least it draws the line somewhere.

If "action RPG" only refers to presentation than it loses any worth it had as a descriptive phrase and enters the realm of marketing jargon.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 novembre 2010 - 11:14 .

[Perfect-Kenshin]

AlanC9 wrote...

So even if it is like Ninja Gaiden that's not a bad thing? OK. Didn't Mike Laidlaw say that he didn't think the distinction between action game and RPG was worth making? Something to that effect, anyway.

I have no problem with it baring any similarities to NInja Gaiden as long as the RPG elements from DAO are still in the game.

[upsettingshorts]

filaminstrel wrote...
Well it's more like the preview got it wrong, I was just quoting that.

Ah, apologies then!  Previews are wrong at a higher rate than even posters.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 novembre 2010 - 11:23 .

[Saibh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

filaminstrel wrote...
Well it's more like the preview got it wrong, I was just quoting that.

Ah, apologies then!  Previews are wrong at a higher rate than even posters.  

I'm pretty positive I could write a preview for DA2, having never played the demo, that would be both more informative and more accurate than almost anything else we have.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Archereon wrote...
If an exec decides a change needs to happen, Laidlaw has to either comply with him or explain why its not feasible.  Ultimately the people REALLY in charge (board of directors and other execs) can meddle however much they want with the "lead designer's" vision.

In theory, yes, but there comes a point at which something has to be implemented, and it's implemented by my team. Were I not on board with the way a game was being made, I have more than thirty highly competent people who could be a force of extreme subversion. Eventually the tension between the game I was trying to make and the game that was being demanded would reach a point where something would have to change, and frankly, the game would probably be pushed back or cancelled as a result.

Of course, that would be highly unprofessional, and I'll be damned before I let something like that happen. Down that path lies the death of careers. And rightly so.

Thus far, EA and Bioware as an organization have been extremely supportive of Dragon Age II. To date, I cannot think of a single decision that has been changed as a result of pressure from outside the team. I can think of hundreds that come directly from the team, from the leadership to design to art to QA; it's not very hard to have a voice on the Dragon Age team. If you walk into one office, you can speak to the executive producer, lead artist, lead designer and lead programmer all at once, and we're more than happy to hear it. And frankly, if an executive had an idea that would make the game better, I'd want to hear it too.

But the changes to the game, in terms of feel, visuals, combat responsiveness? Those are all coming from the Dragon Age team. And all the stuff that still feels the same? That's us too.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Archereon wrote...

Who knows?  He could've taken it for the money, I don't know enough about this guy to make a judgement on that, though I do know most people don't care enough about games to sacrifice a significant pay raise, its the decision I'd make honestly.

Then you certainly don't know enough about me. About the only claim you could make about me that would be more incorrect than "he doesn't care about games" would be "growing up on a farm had no influence on him."

[slimgrin]

My question is, how do these reviewers get so much wrong? They played the game did they not? Did he imagine there was a dodge? Did he just dream about it, and thought what the hell lets just put it in there anyway?

Modifié par slimgrin, 13 novembre 2010 - 11:34 .

[Mike Laidlaw]

Saibh wrote...
I'm pretty positive I could write a preview for DA2, having never played the demo, that would be both more informative and more accurate than almost anything else we have.

You have to cut some of the previewers some slack. They rarely get as much time or as many questions as they would want, and they often see a dozen games in a day when they attend certain events.

In general, though, I believe that the innaccuracies come from one very clear source: DA II does not "feel" like DA:O when you first play it. It's faster. It feels like you're actually in control of your characters, not issuing orders that will eventually be carried out. This is, in my mind, a success, because while not all of the previewers pause the game, or take a look at the more tactical side of things, they can feel and understand the changes in their bones.

Every time they leap to a game like Ninja Gaiden, a game that has functionally no resemblance to DA II that I can see, I take it as a compliment. I know it bothers some people here to hear that kind of comparison made, but such is life. There will be more details coming. The podcast was a first step. More soon!

[crimzontearz]

mike....I understand you are the person I need to bribe in order to know more about NG+ in DA2



and I am told you like good food and good beer



draw your cvonclusions -grins-

[upsettingshorts]

A previewer name dropped Mass Effect when describing how interrogations are going to work in LA Noire - and I'm not genuinely thinking that the latter is going to be like the former. Some of it is groupthink, and on the forums we latch onto every detail like references to Ninja Gaiden and run with it.



I wouldn't be shocked if, on some Rockstar or Bondi forum right now there aren't a bunch of equally enthusiastic supporters debating the relative merits of Mass Effect since it was mentioned in a preview of the game they're interested in/



/the digital actors in LA Noire look awesome

[Meltemph]

Every time they leap to a game like Ninja Gaiden, a game that has functionally no resemblance to DA II that I can see, I take it as a compliment. I know it bothers some people here to hear that kind of comparison made, but such is life. There will be more details coming. The podcast was a first step. More soon!

Also, I would wager most of the time, when they use games like that to explain changes, they mean it as a compliment, trying to exaggerate a improvement to equate it to something memorable. At least that would be my guess.



I mean, I remember over on the G4TV website, even though they gave DAO such high compliments, they almost never gave it face time and I remember they responded to one of my posts one time, stating, it is because RPG's are more niche and less people are interested.



Take that bit of anecdotal as you will, but I think it is on average the way games like these are perceived.

[Utoryo]

Mike, thanks a lot for these great clarifications. One thing I'm curious about is the difficulty level for the demos. I assume it's the DA:O equivalent of Easy? Certainly you wouldn't *need* a lot of pausing/strategy in DA:O at that difficulty either, and if it was faster paced you'd be tempted not to bother.

Anything you can tell us about what difficulty options are planned at this stage? Here's hoping for something a bit more extreme than Nightmare after completing the game in Hard/Nightmare

Modifié par Utoryo, 13 novembre 2010 - 11:48 .

[Apollo Starflare]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Archereon wrote...

The problem there is that it's going to force you to micromanage one character, and one character only, unlike in DA:O where you controlled the whole party...Which will now be useless, barring absurd health bonuses to NPCs, thanks to either

A. Godawful AI regarding the active dodges

or

B. No AI at all in active dodges

Or, C. They got it wrong and there is no active dodge.

In fact, there was a very clear rule about active dodging and defenses put down in my first combat design doc that said I believed that active dodges would fail in a party-based game, because the player would feel as if he could only play the "tank" of the party in order to have maximum effectiveness.

Interesting, I wonder what the preview was thinking of then? They even mentioned the button combination (press a direction and the attack button (A in this case)). That said it certainly makes me feel better, I was thinking I had managed to miss that despite playing through the demo twice! Perhaps they got confused thinking of the rogue's backflip ability or something.

Thanks for the clear up Mike, BCF to the rescue yet again.

Upsettingshorts wrote...


John Epler is probably lurking right now.

For some reason this creeped me out. I looked around half expecting to see John lurking in the corner of my room behind a curtain or something.

[crimzontearz]

seriously Mike.....



any words at all?

[Meltemph]

 Crimsontearz... Chrono Trigger ruined you with NG+.  :happy:

Modifié par Meltemph, 13 novembre 2010 - 11:58 .

[Perfect-Kenshin]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Who knows?  He could've taken it for the money, I don't know enough about this guy to make a judgement on that, though I do know most people don't care enough about games to sacrifice a significant pay raise, its the decision I'd make honestly.

Then you certainly don't know enough about me. About the only claim you could make about me that would be more incorrect than "he doesn't care about games" would be "growing up on a farm had no influence on him."

lol, yeah right. I don't question that you care about these games, but if it came between your salary and your vision of the game, you'd go with the salary in a heart beat. DAO sold more than any other Bioware game, hence greater expectations and pay for DA2. I don't know all that much about you, but I know you aren't insane.

[crimzontearz]

Meltemph wrote...

 Crimsontearz... Chrono Trigger ruined you with NG+.  :happy:

never played it

tho a lot of games have it now....Mass Effect, Darksiders (sort of), Dead Space, Resident Evil and so on.....

DAO needs it too......I just want to know if it will have it or not to prepare myself psychologically

[Brockololly]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
Every time they leap to a game like Ninja Gaiden, a game that has functionally no resemblance to DA II that I can see, I take it as a compliment. I know it bothers some people here to hear that kind of comparison made, but such is life.

But, why exactly do you take that as a compliment? Just in terms of DA2 seeming as responsive as something like Ninja Gaiden? Different strokes for different folks, but I'd feel a bit better if more comparisons were being made to BG2 not ME2 or any of the Ninja Gaiden/God of War/Devil May Cry/Fable games.

Mike Laidlaw wrote...
There will be more details coming. The podcast was a first step. More soon!

Like..... a PC gameplay walkthrough video?

Sorry, its an innate reflex at this point.


But how is the PC version coming along? It seems like Gamescom was the last time we really heard anything specifically about the PC version as all of these conventions demo the console version.