276 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica83]

Of course not i use an objective approach.. Skill upgrading in much systems are stat based or level based for a skill is the best way to have an effective dynamic class system when the stat drive how is effective..For example a skill like mightyblow can be upgraded in automatic with an high strenght point character... But for what i read the upgradable skill works in a very different manner... And they are more ludical but less nice from a roleplay point of wiew we are talking of an rpg.. And since da2 is too much ludical from my point of wiew.. I miss the times where big huge games like planescape torment or baldu'rs gate saga or icewind dale ones will be released...



They are really masterpieces of roleplay games...Not easy sequels with poor content actiony and ludical title like mass effect 2 or dragon age 2 because dragon age 2 from what is writed on this forum and from devs info is nothing more of a sort of mass effect referred game of the dragon age universe... Bioware is following a fashion.. And when rpgs follows fashion they become worse worse and again worse... I can make may example of that...

[b09boy]

Piecake wrote...

I found the exact line

"Rest easy. I will get rid of these pesky mages"

Again, based on my previous choices - i took the good, but prudent, ill see what the situation is before deciding on anything road - I thought that pesky mages was only referring to blood mages.

http://dragonage.wik...uest_(Fem!Mage)

...he's trying to convince you to kill off all the mages.  You thought the prudent choice was the agreeing with him option when the option above it was "2. We don't know that they are all blood mages."? 

Modifié par b09boy, 14 novembre 2010 - 03:25 .

[bsbcaer]

Beaner28 wrote...

My biggest qualm so far is the fact that the length of time to play from beginning to end is going to be much shorter than Origins. Shorter length means the game has less content. Less content is what happens when you shorten dev time to rush something out. Development time counts people.

As for the over the top animations I don't really have an opinion. We haven't really seen any extended gameplay footage to know for sure, even though we're only four months away from release which pretty much tells you this thing is being half assed and rushed out.

Edit: I mean five months before DA:O's release at E3 in June of 09 we saw the entire Flemeth fight and got a fully playable demo of it. Here's what was being shown at E3:



We saw how it was going to play and we knew so much more about was was in it. We're only four months away and all we've seen is a two minute cinematic and another minute and a half gameplay trailer which showed next to nothing plus a few locations and concept art posted on the website.

The fact we know next to nothing about this game so close to release tells you all you need to know. The more I think about it, DA 2 is going to be a disaster. I will say I told you so.

With regards to releasing a demo etc.  At this point, how much can they release/show without spoiling large chunks of the story?  With regards to DA:O, they could conceivably relase any one of the six origins as a "demo" and sit back and say "ok, we told a fair amount and showed an optional fight, but we still have five other origins to fall back on, so there is still a lot of stuff for players to discover"

[Piecake]

b09boy wrote...

Piecake wrote...

I found the exact line

"Rest easy. I will get rid of these pesky mages"

Again, based on my previous choices - i took the good, but prudent, ill see what the situation is before deciding on anything road - I thought that pesky mages was only referring to blood mages.

http://dragonage.wik...uest_(Fem!Mage)

...he's trying to convince you to kill off all the mages.  You thought the prudent choice was agreeing with him option when the option above it is "2. We don't know that they are all blood mages."? 

Just felt like going for the confident and cocky option, least thats what i thought it was. 

[KLUME777]

I think a reason why DAO sold well and me2 didn't was because DAO released over Christmas, and ME2 was released in March. And now DA2 is being released in March (i think, March right?).

[bsbcaer]

Monica83 wrote...

This alone make me disappoint of DA2 and if you add all cutted down features...
Trashy anim
Static classes
Short lenght than origins

Its really hard for me to try a reason to call this game a dragon age game and not a mass effect medieval version game...

The problem is bioware accepted to follow the fashionist way of mass effect to encrease console audience.. And what is born like an old school rpg its slapped away... *sighs*

the first is merely subjective; some people like the animations, while others don't.  I think what we're talking about is the limitations of the particular engine they're using.  Besides (no offense to anyone working there), animations have never really been Biowares strongest suit.

I disagree that the classes are static (we've had this discussion between us before, and I think we're pretty much going to have to agree to disagree).  But, yes, you are limited to a 2 handed or sword and board warrior, an archer or dual-wielding rogue, or a spell slinging mage.  How *YOU* decide to build your character within that limitation is up to YOU, so in that respect (I hope you agree), classes are NOT static

Yes, developers have mentioned that the length of the new game is shorter than origins.  A couple of points here:  First, length does not equal quality (I personally would rather have a quality gaming experience rather than a long gaming experience).  Second, length of a game varies from person to person (can't remember exactly how long my first gameplay was, but I believe it was over 60 hours), so if Im getting anywhere between 40-50 hours of quality gameplay on my first playthrough, I will have considered it money well spent

[bsbcaer]

Halae Dral wrote...

Dialogue System: I hate the Dialogue Wheel. It's very annoying to pick one option and have the character say something different. It makes it hard to roleplay the character, since you can't actually choose what they're going to say. Maybe some people can predict it based on the snippets, but I've had an awful track record of that with Mass Effect. 
I don't care that it's a wheel. I don't care what way the lines are arranged. I just would vastly prefer the options to be what the character will actually say. I prefer the selecting topics method of games like Morrowind to the Dialogue Wheel, and that's saying a lot for me, because I'm not fond of that (it doesn't feel like actually interacting with the NPC to me). I'd rather have to completely imagine what my character is saying than get something completely un-predicted.

I also really dislike the voiced PC. When there's as much choice in that as there is in appearance, then great - even being able to choose from a few different voice options would be okay, I guess, although I'd still rather have no voice than that. It restricts playability for me to basically twice, and it's a matter of luck whether or not the voice happens to fit the character.

Just wanted to make one comment on the dialogue...it is important to note that you're dealing with two different writing teams (fortunately I think we're dealing with the better one with respect to Dragon Age), with the DA team able to look at what didn't work with the other team (with poorly written paraphrasing for example) and actively attempt to avoid the same problems.  As for voiced PC, based on your position, there's probably not much I can say to change your mind

[AtreiyaN7]

For anyone worried about the inventory, does anyone ever actually take a look at the podcast screenshots, etc.? http://blog.bioware....d-mike-laidlaw/ (copy & paste the link).

You know, if you look at the very first screenshot there, you might note that it says "Capacity: 5/96" down near the bottom, so inventory clearly is in the game. Hawke gets to wear any armor he/she wants as well (within class restrictions presumably). While the companions are limited to one set of armor, it IS upgradable (go listen to the podcast/read the transcript/whatever). Also, companions can equip accessories like rings, belts, and necklaces, etc. Geez, if people would only bother to look up information like this, it would cut down on a few concerns getting repeated ad nauseum (like the incorrect belief that there is no inventory anymore ).

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 14 novembre 2010 - 03:53 .

[bsbcaer]

Beaner28 wrote...

Yes, but the fact itemization is being taken away is such a huge blow in my opinion. The depth and strategy that went into deciding what rings, armor, weapons and runes to distribute out to your companions and changing them as the situation entailed is part of what made DA a masterpiece. The fact this is all being thrown out to dumb down the game and make it more action oriented is a terrible decision.

Why does BioWare insist on fixing what wasn't broken? In most cases it seems, they changed some game features and made em worse.

Outside of being able to change the visual look of companions, everything you listed is still available in the new game.

[Ortaya Alevli]

I'm on the fence when it comes to most changes and additions, but the implementation of paraphrasing worries me. Example from ME2: Samara's loyalty mission, the part where Morinth tries to...embrace eternity with Shepard. You have one Paragon response: "Surprise" and a Renegade one: "You're screwed." Which have absolutely nothing to do with what Shepard says in any case.

I'd prefer the Origins approach where your voiced lines were described in square brackets instead of paraphreses. I'm talking about the scenes where your teammates did the talking, such as the rescue mission in Fort Drakon or the Fade sequence in Redcliffe. "[Attack]" or "[Be nice to him]" worked much better than that "Surprise" or "You're screwed." disaster, if you ask me.

[Urazz]

KLUME777 wrote...

I think a reason why DAO sold well and me2 didn't was because DAO released over Christmas, and ME2 was released in March. And now DA2 is being released in March (i think, March right?).

ME2 did sell well actually.  Just not at the level that DAO did due to the holiday  ME2 would probably have similar numbers compared to DAO if it was released during the holiday season.  And yes, DA2 is being released in March so I'm not expecting DAO amount of sales for it since it's not being released during the holiday.

Truth be told though the only thing I don't like that bugs me the most is the art change to the darkspawn.  They look less scary to me with this change.  But since this game isn't really about the darkspawn and we only see them for the beginning of the game, I can get over it.

Modifié par Urazz, 14 novembre 2010 - 04:07 .

[bsbcaer]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

I'm on the fence when it comes to most changes and additions, but the implementation of paraphrasing worries me. Example from ME2: Samara's loyalty mission, the part where Morinth tries to...embrace eternity with Shepard. You have one Paragon response: "Surprise" and a Renegade one: "You're screwed." Which have absolutely nothing to do with what Shepard says in any case.
I'd prefer the Origins approach where your voiced lines were described in square brackets instead of paraphreses. I'm talking about the scenes where your teammates did the talking, such as the rescue mission in Fort Drakon or the Fade sequence in Redcliffe. "[Attack]" or "[Be nice to him]" worked much better than that "Surprise" or "You're screwed." disaster, if you ask me.

In cases like that, I think the big issue was one of the writing crew on ME2.  I have a little more faith in the DA2 writing crew and I think that they are able to look at what went wrong with ME2 (for eg) and to avoid those problems

[Remmirath]

For speeches and/or the Joining scene, I don't see what would be the problem with having the PC give it through dialogue options based on coercion or such. The character would be assumed to be speaking, everyone else would react to them, and it seems as though it would be work out fine.

bsbcaer wrote...

Halae Dral wrote...

Dialogue System: I hate the Dialogue Wheel. It's very annoying to pick one option and have the character say something different. It makes it hard to roleplay the character, since you can't actually choose what they're going to say. Maybe some people can predict it based on the snippets, but I've had an awful track record of that with Mass Effect. 
I don't care that it's a wheel. I don't care what way the lines are arranged. I just would vastly prefer the options to be what the character will actually say. I prefer the selecting topics method of games like Morrowind to the Dialogue Wheel, and that's saying a lot for me, because I'm not fond of that (it doesn't feel like actually interacting with the NPC to me). I'd rather have to completely imagine what my character is saying than get something completely un-predicted.

I also really dislike the voiced PC. When there's as much choice in that as there is in appearance, then great - even being able to choose from a few different voice options would be okay, I guess, although I'd still rather have no voice than that. It restricts playability for me to basically twice, and it's a matter of luck whether or not the voice happens to fit the character.

Just wanted to make one comment on the dialogue...it is important to note that you're dealing with two different writing teams (fortunately I think we're dealing with the better one with respect to Dragon Age), with the DA team able to look at what didn't work with the other team (with poorly written paraphrasing for example) and actively attempt to avoid the same problems.  As for voiced PC, based on your position, there's probably not much I can say to change your mind

That's true, and I am hoping that it'll be better. I'd still rather not have to deal with it at all, but I won't know how much of an annoyance it is for me this time around until I play the game. I don't have any worries about the writing in general.

The thing is, no matter how much the paraphrase indicates what you're going to get, it isn't going to be selecting the exact thing to say unless it is selecting the exact thing to say. "Are you sure?" turning into "Are you sure? I don't think that's a great idea" still changes the meaning of the line, but it's not something that would surprise me coming from the sample (you could easily mean "Are you sure? It doesn't seem like the sort of thing you'd do", for instance, which could be fairly different in intent).

I admit I don't understand the rationale behind having the paraphrasing system at all. Surely voice acting can be attached just as easily to the old dialogue system, so there must be some other reason for it.

[Ziggeh]

In Exile wrote...

This does not mean people don't get attached to a VO character like Shepard. Me, I can't develop any meaningfull sense of attachment to a non-VO PC. Shepard felt far more like my character than any other character in any Bioware game, including KoTOR, JE or DA:O. Sure, the things you could do were narrow - but you could do things. With a silent PC you are just some blank puppet that emits things. That's putting aside issues like the fact that in a cut-scene, the Warden is just a silent, slack-jawed yokel.

I heartily concur.

I 'm of the opinion that FemShep was one of the better characters I've ever seen in a game, where as I could describe the entirety of my Warden's personality in 3 words. One of them is dwarf. He certainly started with a complex personality, as I was having a crack at the whole roleplaying thing, but beyond being angry at things generally, it all seemed irrelevant to the task at hand, and so piece by piece fell away from his story.

The cutscenes problem wasn't just a character problem, they were often positively immersion breaking. The landsmeet could have convincingly pulled of a laugh track as Loghain's stirring speechs are met with dumb silence.

[In Exile]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

Oh and there is no reason you can't have both the Alistair and Anora speeches and PC speeches anyway. The Warden never became ruler of Ferelden so that speech would have been given by one of them regardless. Which is good because I did like Anora's speech, well delivered. So was femsheps though.

The Warden is their military commander. This is akin to saying that Loghain shouldn't be allowed to give a speech at Ostagar.

KLUME777 wrote...

I would take your twisted Allistair
speech any day over that monotonous, emotion-forsaken drabble of "we can
save the galaxy, crew". I mean, i cringed during that scene. Your
twisted Allistair speech had more emotion than Shepherds. Yours was
funny, i laughed.

You think "This is the Warden, amazing, incredible, the best of us, something we should all aspire too, super awesome, too bad you can't be like him, now let's go kill darkspawn!" isn't cheesy?

The whole scene is just written as a way to praise the PC and the player, but retain the pacing of the cut-scene, so you have Alistair slobber over how awesome you are. At least Shepard actually addresses the issue instead of reading out a love letter.

b09boy wrote...
Not saying people don't like a VA
protagonist.  Just saying it's one of the things which contributed to
how things have changed

That the writers would rather write a PC with VO? I'd wager that isn't true, especially given how Hawke/Shepard are written. You see, no single writer writes them, if it's like ME. What happens instead is that the writer who handles the quest/planet/companion writes the dialogue for both Hawke & Shepard and then whoever is lead writer gives it a read-through to make sure it stays consistent.

This was why ME2 gave us renegade/paragon inconsistent Shepard - because everyone had their slighty different impression of what this means.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Warden isn't written the same way. At any rate, the PC isn't written as a character in the same way.

In Exile wrote...

That's
a pretty rich jump to conclusions.  Sure we might not be able to pin
EXACTLY what made the game for each and every individual, but if we use
some intelligence we can determine better why it sold.  It's not just
like you have to make a stab into the dark into what people in general
liked or did not like.

Ah, we're rolling with patronizing insults. Awesome.

You do have to make a stab in the dark about what people like, because I'm going to bet you that whatever features you're about to list as central attractions to DA:O (maybe something like BGII's spiritual successor) were either irrelevant or negatives for a significant portion of the consumer base. Especially since the majority of the sales were, apparently, on the console and not the PC.

So what made Origins popular then?  For
one, a marketing campaign which got peoples attention.  There's a key
right there.  People knew the name, recognized basically what the game
was and it was released during a buyer's season.  Second, it went over
well with a lot of people because it brought back to the table elements
which just aren't seen much any longer in big budget titles.  A
lore-filled world with a pretty good story, decent number of choices and
good character development on top of a decent leveling system
(especially for a first go), tactical party-based combat system and an
epic length.

That's absolutely impossible to verify. People didn't know the name, and if you look at the marketing (i.e. the violence trailer) it looked like Bioware was marketing a hack & slash action RPG. In fact, the old DA:O forum was close to exploding in nerd rage that DA:O was going to fail as a game, and that it was delayed for the few months that it was (Feb. - Nov.) because Bioware needed to port it to consoles and make it hack & slash.

More to the point, we don't know how many people care or even know about tabletop elements. I certainly don't, and certainly don't care. Why would you assume the majority of DA:O fans do? This is just you projecting your preference. Which is the whole problem with your initial claim. Without actual research, we can't know this.

I can as easily say that people wanted Dragon Effect, becaue their last mass market exposure to Bioware was ME, and it was the combat system that drew them in and the lack of VO that pushed them away, which as it turns out perfectly justifies the choices Bioware is making with this game.

Now yes, there are things people might want changed
in all that.  They might like more action-based combat or they might
prefer a voiced protagonist.  However, this latter bit changes
fundamentals which made the game so well received, even by those who
would like to have the protagonist voiced.  It shortens the game
exponentially, creates less choice both in dialogue and in action and it
would force major cuts into how the story unfolds.

Man, you really like begging the question. We don't know if the # of meaningless puppet dialogue choices were important to the experience of teh game. We don't know if people liked the length of the game or were turned of by a 60 hour slog.

Basically, we don't know why the game was well-received.

Would Origins
be as well-loved with four origin stories, three story missions instead
of four (with the Redcliffe section shortened to just the Urn quest,
Orzammar shortened to just the intial choosing and the deep roads and
Brecilian cut out entirely), a fifth of the sidequests and half the
finale cut out (say, the alienage cut out and the Cauthrien encounter
being shortened so there is no prison sequence)?

Frankly, yes. I think the entie middle portion of Origins should have been cut to maybe a 20-hour quest, and then another 15 hours be added as a dramatic endgame encounter with the archdemon, where we actually felt like we were enganging with an antagonist and making a difference in the game instead of running around with content that quite literally had no impact on the greater narrative.

Seriously, DA:O is a very simple game. You have: Origin - Ostagar -ARMY RECRUITMENT - Denerim/Archdemon. The actual story of the game is pretty barebones, and the writers went over the top with flavour. A game like Jade Empire or ME, despite being shorter, has a lot more narrative cohesion.

In fact, I would argue Jade Empire is about the best sort of story Bioware produced, since it seemed to have distinct narrative periods versus "recruit all armies/visit all plants/find each starmap" that makes some Bioware games such a huge fetch-quest chore.

Modifié par In Exile, 14 novembre 2010 - 02:50 .

[Ceridwen]

 So, I've been lurking around for a while, and I'm confused on why people think the framed narrative combined with multiple dialogue choices/actions (albeit voiced choices, which I am not against) will make DA2 a limited, cut-off game. Would it not extend your freedom even further by letting you branch out and dynamically change the story mostly to your desire?
I'm concerned about the (mis)informative posts of this thread. There are some posts that contradict the Bioware blog and/or the thread SirOccam created to address what has been confirmed as part of DA2. Link to the thread: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/3064634/1#3064634.

Companion clothing remains static, yes, but it changes throughout the span of the game. Isabela will not wear her easy-access outfit for ten years straight. Unless there's a substantial amount of dirty money on the table in Hawke's house.

Edit:

In Exile wrote...

Would Origins
be as well-loved with four origin stories, three story missions instead
of four (with the Redcliffe section shortened to just the Urn quest, 
Orzammar shortened to just the intial choosing and the deep roads and 
Brecilian cut out entirely), a fifth of the sidequests and half the 
finale cut out (say, the alienage cut out and the Cauthrien encounter 
being shortened so there is no prison sequence)?

Frankly, yes. I think the entie middle portion of Origins should have been cut to maybe a 20-hour quest, and then another 15 hours be added as a dramatic endgame encounter with the archdemon, where we actually felt like we were enganging with an antagonist and making a difference in the game instead of running around with content that quite literally had no impact on the greater narrative.

Seriously, DA:O is a very simple game. You have: Origin - Ostagar -ARMY RECRUITMENT - Denerim/Archdemon. The actual story of the game is pretty barebones, and the writers went over the top with flavour.

I got a bit tired, going from place to place, just doing to same thing over and over again. There were changes from place to place, but the PC's honest job was, as Branka bluntly put it, being "an important errand-boy." Even then, being an important errand-boy was quite fun.

Modifié par kwintessa, 14 novembre 2010 - 03:20 .

[DanaScu]

bsbcaer wrote...
With regards to releasing a demo etc.  At this point, how much can they release/show without spoiling large chunks of the story?  With regards to DA:O, they could conceivably relase any one of the six origins as a "demo" and sit back and say "ok, we told a fair amount and showed an optional fight, but we still have five other origins to fall back on, so there is still a lot of stuff for players to discover"

If they released just what they've *officially* shown so far I think they'll end up in a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" catch-22 type of thing.

Show the exaggerated gameplay with the giant pwner blade/staff/uberweapon thing and the bouncing jumping rabid kangaroo/300 enemies explode into bloody giblets when Hawke looks at them combat and some people will be complaining about it being too over the top ridiculous. Show the exaggerated gameplay with the giant pwner
blade/staff/uberweapon thing and the bouncing jumping rabid kangaroo/300
enemies explode into bloody giblets when Hawke looks at them combat and
some people will be cheering wildly because this is just what they've wanted the game to be. 

The first group might never bother to give the [allegedly] better, non-exaggerated "true" game a try because they can't get over the "oh its just an exaggeration by the story-teller person" and the game actually doesn't play that way. The second group will be ranting and complaining because the [allegedly] better, non-exaggerated "true" game isn't the wildly over the top ridiculous exaggeration version and the devs mislead them about how the game actually plays.

Its going to be interesting to see the opinions here and the reviews.

[Vankraft]

I'm concerned about the start of the game, and by that I mean being forced into having awkward relationships with your family. I remember how awkward it was back during the human noble prologue, every time the parents would tell my character how much they loved him made me cringe.



"I love you pup" hearing that from a character that you met 2 minutes prior was unpleasant.

[b09boy]

In Exile wrote...

That the writers would rather write a PC with VO? I'd wager that isn't true, especially given how Hawke/Shepard are written. You see, no single writer writes them, if it's like ME. What happens instead is that the writer who handles the quest/planet/companion writes the dialogue for both Hawke & Shepard and then whoever is lead writer gives it a read-through to make sure it stays consistent.

Except for the fact that the writers have been very excited about the feature and can't seem to comprehend why a non-voiced protagonist was actually beloved.

In Exile wrote...

Ah, we're rolling with patronizing insults. Awesome.

You do have to make a stab in the dark about what people like, because I'm going to bet you that whatever features you're about to list as central attractions to DA:O (maybe something like BGII's spiritual successor) were either irrelevant or negatives for a significant portion of the consumer base. Especially since the majority of the sales were, apparently, on the console and not the PC.

[snip]

*sighs*  Predictable.

No, you don't have to take a stab in the dark.  Just because it's not written in big bold letters across your computer screen doesn't mean they can't read reviews, gauge numerous forum reactions, question game testers, give out a survey, or hell just play the game for themselves.  It is not difficult to come up with the postives and negatives of something, even subjective as they might be.

In Exile wrote...

Frankly, yes. I think the entie middle portion of Origins should have been cut to maybe a 20-hour quest, and then another 15 hours be added as a dramatic endgame encounter with the archdemon, where we actually felt like we were enganging with an antagonist and making a difference in the game instead of running around with content that quite literally had no impact on the greater narrative.

Seriously, DA:O is a very simple game. You have: Origin - Ostagar -ARMY RECRUITMENT - Denerim/Archdemon. The actual story of the game is pretty barebones, and the writers went over the top with flavour. A game like Jade Empire or ME, despite being shorter, has a lot more narrative cohesion.

Ok, I'm not sure you actually comprehend what I wrote.  First, I didn't say cut here and add there.  I said cut, period.  There wouldn't be a cut storyline and lengthened endgame.  If anything, EVERYTHING would be shortened.  Second, it wouldn't really be the filler cut out - chanters board quests or long dungeon crawls.  It would be the story-heavy dialogue portions - anything which brings the VA over budget.  As in there is no longer a problem in Redcliffe, just with Eamon or there is no longer political intrigue in Orzammar, just the trip into the deep roads or there is no longer the darkspawn feint to Redcliffe at the end, there's just the Landsmeet (with most steps leading up to it gone) and then darkspawn are on the doorstep.

Origins is simple, yes.  And this simplicity is fully fleshed out.

[tmp7704]

b09boy wrote...

Except for the fact that the writers have been very excited about the feature and can't seem to comprehend why a non-voiced protagonist was actually beloved.

I don't think a reasonable human being, a writer the least of all, would have trouble comprehending that. Some of them may not agree with it personally given we all have different tastes, but it doesn't mean one cannot grasp the concept of appeal, itself.

[b09boy]

tmp7704 wrote...

I don't think a reasonable human being, a writer the least of all, would have trouble comprehending that. Some of them may not agree with it personally given we all have different tastes, but it doesn't mean one cannot grasp the concept of appeal, itself.

Yet that's what I've gotten off them just the same.  Actually let me make a small revision.  They know why we like it that way, they just can't seem to quite grasp the why of the why.  Personally, I think it's because they don't really want to grasp it.  A blank protagonist has become more of an obstacle than a character to write for them, in their minds, while a voiced protagonist can be injected with more tangible personality to become more of another character they're writing and less of a player potentially trying to somehow break off the rails.

Just what I've gathered.

[Monica83]

i only say this... schematic pharaphrasing and dialog wheel... static armor of party... only human character = mass effect... only that... and when i want to play dragon age i want play dragon age not a sort of mass effect with sword and darkspawn

[The Masked Rog]

Monica83 wrote...

i only say this... schematic pharaphrasing and dialog wheel... static armor of party... only human character = mass effect... only that... and when i want to play dragon age i want play dragon age not a sort of mass effect with sword and darkspawn

• It is not an third person shooter. it's not even a shooter.
• It uses the same engine as DA:O
• It has the same classes and gameplay experience of DA:O. YOu point and click - char attacks. Click ability - character activates said ability. Loot bodies. Watch cutscenes. Sell stuff. Buy stuff. Equip stuff. Chat with your companions.

[Xewaka]

GodWood wrote...

~ Taking out of Origins.
~ Handling of companion armour.
~ Overstylizing of combat.
~ [potential] Boobification ala ME2
~ Voiced Protaganist.

These bullet points also apply to me.
I'd like to add godawful impractical armor on the main character (based on what he wears on Destiny and Rise to Power), but I'll wait 'til wee see the heavy armor proper.

[In Exile]

b09boy wrote..

Except for the fact that the writers have been very excited about the feature and can't seem to comprehend why a non-voiced protagonist was actually beloved.

Bioware tends to be very good at keeping the party line, so to speak. You will find them speaking about any feature as the feature they wanted to develop, the appropriate feature for the game, and leave it open that they may change things for the future.

Their answer to including VO for DA:O when I was being very pushy for was essentially wha the response is here for silent VO: the appropriate tone for the game is silent/non-silent VO, it fits with the vision of what Bioware wants to do, everyone is excited to work on the project, etc. etc.

If you've actually seen them disparage a silent PC, I'll be more than happy to grant your point, but I'm going to have to ask for a quote.

*sighs*  Predictable.

No, you don't have to take a stab in the dark.  Just because it's not written in big bold letters across your computer screen doesn't mean they can't read reviews, gauge numerous forum reactions, question game testers, give out a survey, or hell just play the game for themselves.  It is not difficult to come up with the postives and negatives of something, even subjective as they might be.

So I assume that you've read the reviews, gauged tens of thousands of independent forum reactions, questioned game testers and given out surveys?

I'm not saying it's impossible in principle to do this. I'm saying you, the poster I am speaking to right now, most certainly hasn't done any of this, so whatever claim you're making about DA's audience and DA2's future prospects, well, that isn't justified at all.

Ok, I'm not sure you actually comprehend what I wrote.  First, I didn't say cut here and add there.  I said cut, period.

I'm talking about redesign, and cutting a 65 hour game to a 55 hour game. That's cut. How do you think the creative process works? Bioware comes up with this awesome game they want to make, then they cut 44% of it becuase they decided to add VO and sell it to you?

That's absurd. The full game is designed with the sort of resources available. Whether or not VO means they could add more content to DA2, making it an issue of content you're losing out on is just silly.

There wouldn't be a cut storyline and lengthened endgame.  If anything, EVERYTHING would be shortened. 

Have you ever had to work on a project before? If resources are limited, you don't choose to make everything 10% less good. You just cut out one major feature that is time intensive.

Second, it wouldn't really be the filler cut out - chanters board quests or long dungeon crawls.  It would be the story-heavy dialogue portions - anything which brings the VA over budget.  As in there is no longer a problem in Redcliffe, just with Eamon or there is no longer political intrigue in Orzammar, just the trip into the deep roads or there is no longer the darkspawn feint to Redcliffe at the end, there's just the Landsmeet (with most steps leading up to it gone) and then darkspawn are on the doorstep.

Ah, I see. You've worked to design a similar game like DA2. It's good that you're speaking from experience.

The budget for VO is not what will cut content. It's the budget for the cinematics. Look at the Witcher - PC VO, and yet they had a 60 hour game. Why? Because they didn't have to worry about resource intensive, highly scripted cinematics.

What will make DA2 shorter than DA:O is the intense investment in scripting for each particular cutscene Bioware wants to make. For every Ostagar, you could have 5 Redcliffe Castle quests.

The cost isn't VO per se - they could make the PC silent, if they keep the same sort of cinematic scripting, the cost and game is still just as short.

Origins is simple, yes.  And this simplicity is fully fleshed out.

No, it isn't . It's redundant and largely useless.