443 réponses à ce sujet

[Maverick827]

silentassassin264 wrote...

I got bored of being compelled to do things my character would not have done (as I said I would have broken back into the alienage immediately).

I'm pretty sure that "I got bored of being compelled to do things my character would not have done" is written on Ser Jory's tombstone.

[Drasanil]

Nerivant wrote...

Drasanil wrote...
Then why waste time on modelling gender options and a second VO for what is little more than an alternate appearance? Jiggly breast and nice outfits would have eliminated the need for a he-Hawke.

Gender had more of an effect on DAO's story than your race did.

Which according to what David wrote would be more of an argument for ditching gender options as opposed to racial ones.

[Herr Uhl]

Maria Caliban wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Never mind that the vast majority never finished the game or tried it more than once to go and agree with your line of thinking that they needed to play the human noble origin to get their "optimal" playthrough?

Whoa! Seriously?

The 'vast majority' never finished the game?

It is a long game.

[Nerivant]

Drasanil wrote...

Nerivant wrote...

Drasanil wrote...
Then why waste time on modelling gender options and a second VO for what is little more than an alternate appearance? Jiggly breast and nice outfits would have eliminated the need for a he-Hawke.

Gender had more of an effect on DAO's story than your race did.

Which according to what David wrote would be more of an argument for ditching gender options as opposed to racial ones.

Which, according to you, means that all alternate appearances are superficial. Everyone is now male Hawke, with only one set of armor, and one weapon, for the entire game.

So much fun!

[MuseMajora]

David Gaider wrote...
Sorry. Don't buy it. Not sure why you're selling it, either.

Ha! Brilliant! I liked that line.

Modifié par MuseMajora, 17 novembre 2010 - 11:06 .

[Aermas]

Well if Gaider is asking for stuff the throw out I suggest Isabela, I don't see why they should have included her over other characters like Anders, but this is just an opinion, but if getting rid of her allowed rogues to wield more than two puny daggers &/or equip shields I vote to get rid of her.

[AlanC9]

silentassassin264 wrote...

It really didn't take meta-ing information.  My first character I made was a city elf because when I saw the trailer and stuff for that origin, it really seemed to resonate with me.  I played through the origin story and through Ostagar but as I went through after that, I steadily lost interest.  My city elf could not even go back into the alienage to see her family.  She is tasked with dealing with a bunch of human noble politics which she really doesn't care for especially since she was kidnapped by one and her cousin is raped by the same one.  I got bored of being compelled to do things my character would not have done (as I said I would have broken back into the alienage immediately).  

This disinterest caused me to try other origins.  The first one that I could actually feel engrossed in was the human noble (before I had tried mage, dalish, and dwarf noble).  Considering the guy who wiped out my family was working all along with the guy who through Ferelden into chaos was a great motivator.  It also helped that I actually had an allegiance to Ferelden being in the second royal family of Ferelden.  As you can tell from this, the first origin I actually finished the game with was the human noble.  For people who only finish the game once, they would have probably encountered the same thing I did and just opted to play human noble.  I did not look up any extra information on the game on the internet or anything until after my first playthrough was done.

Was this common? I don't know, but Bioware does. Presumably achievements are time-stamped. It would be simple to determine the percentage of users that completed an origin, abandoned it for another, and finished the game with that one.

Re the bolded part: this is a problem with the cutscenes. Someone who plays HN knows that there is a motivation for completing the game even though his character does not know this.

[silentassassin264]

David Gaider wrote...

Okay... so you use this thinking as the basis to challenge what? The idea that only 15% of people ever played an elf because the human noble was so important? Never mind that the vast majority never finished the game or tried it more than once to go and agree with your line of thinking that they needed to play the human noble origin to get their "optimal" playthrough?

Sorry. Don't buy it. Not sure why you're selling it, either.

Really?  So despite you have the data that only 15% of people wanted to play as an elf you are going to ignore a reason why people didn't play as elves?  It was not a matter of optimal playthrough.  My favorite origin is still the City Elf and not the human noble.  The story was just so much more accessible when you are playing as the human noble it makes it much easier to go through the 30 hrs of the game (w/ all sidequests).  With the city elf however, it felt like I was doing a bunch of grinding and endless enemy slaying until at the end of the Landsmeet quest you get to see your family again.  The city elf gets their reason to fight the blight and save Ferelden essentially right before the game ends (and it gets rather tedious before that) and the human noble starts with a reason to go on.  That makes a huge difference.

But yes, that was a nice line you have there.

Modifié par silentassassin264, 17 novembre 2010 - 11:10 .

[Herr Uhl]

Aermas wrote...

Well if Gaider is asking for stuff the throw out I suggest Isabela, I don't see why they should have included her over other characters like Anders, but this is just an opinion, but if getting rid of her allowed rogues to wield more than two puny daggers &/or equip shields I vote to get rid of her.

What?

[Drasanil]

Nerivant wrote...

Drasanil wrote...

Nerivant wrote...

Drasanil wrote...
Then why waste time on modelling gender options and a second VO for what is little more than an alternate appearance? Jiggly breast and nice outfits would have eliminated the need for a he-Hawke.

Gender had more of an effect on DAO's story than your race did.

Which according to what David wrote would be more of an argument for ditching gender options as opposed to racial ones.

Which, according to you, means that all alternate appearances are superficial. Everyone is now male Hawke, with only one set of armor, and one weapon, for the entire game.

So much fun!

Well if you're focussing on "the story", which is what you're ostensibly defending, that would be the logical conclusion don't you think? Cut out all extraneous bits to focus on more story.

PS: I think I made a rather compelling point as to why it should be fem-Hawke with jiggly breast and an awesome wardrobe as opposed to man Hawke

[Maria Caliban]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Never mind that the vast majority never finished the game or tried it more than once to go and agree with your line of thinking that they needed to play the human noble origin to get their "optimal" playthrough?

Whoa! Seriously?

The 'vast majority' never finished the game?

It is a long game.

Agreed. I always knew that many didn't finished, but not the vast majority or even the majority.

Maybe I've misread? David might be saying 'Vast majority != (finish game OR play multiple origins)' instead of VM != Finish and VM != Multiple Origins

[Alistar11213]

they need to bring back all the options, plus i think they should add qunari. they can still make the story epic with more stuff, and now only being allowed to play as a male human with out any choice on how they appear wtf thats not cool

[Nerivant]

Drasanil wrote...

Nerivant wrote...

Drasanil wrote...

Nerivant wrote...

Drasanil wrote...
Then why waste time on modelling gender options and a second VO for what is little more than an alternate appearance? Jiggly breast and nice outfits would have eliminated the need for a he-Hawke.

Gender had more of an effect on DAO's story than your race did.

Which according to what David wrote would be more of an argument for ditching gender options as opposed to racial ones.

Which, according to you, means that all alternate appearances are superficial. Everyone is now male Hawke, with only one set of armor, and one weapon, for the entire game.

So much fun!

Well if you're focussing on "the story", which is what you're ostensibly defending, that would be the logical conclusion don't you think? Cut out all extraneous bits to focus on more story.

PS: I think I made a rather compelling point as to why it should be fem-Hawke with jiggly breast and an awesome wardrobe as opposed to man Hawke

You have to draw the line somewhere.

[Nerivant]

Alistar11213 wrote...

they need to bring back all the options, plus i think they should add qunari. they can still make the story epic with more stuff, and now only being allowed to play as a male human with out any choice on how they appear wtf thats not cool

This is the most idiotic post on this forum.

EVER.

[Aermas]

David Gaider wrote...

Drasanil wrote...
You mean 4 extra models for races that are already there in game? That's a load of bull and you know it, we already know there are dwarves and elves in game they just decided to cut out your ability to play as one and honestly if mods are anything to go by resizing armor really isn't all that hard.

Whooo there goes another kitten. Tsk.

Honestly, people who don't know what they're talking about shouldn't make such sweeping statements.

Consider what you already know: the PC is the only character who is going to be actively swapping multiple armor models throughout the game. If you're only looking for one reason, there it is-- and it's no small one. And "resizing" the armor is simplifying the issue... it's work, and multiplied across all equippable armors in the game, times 2. We could do that work, but where would you like it to come from? Which enemy creatures, follower appearances and NPC armor models would you like to cut? None, I assume, but there are limited resources to divide considering the short timeframe we have to make the game.

Just add more time? Yes, that would be nice-- but that's not what we're doing. We could make a smaller game or have less variety in appearances for the PC, I suppose, but the trade-off has to come from somewhere.

And that's only if you look at this one aspect. There are others. I don't expect you to know them, or even care about them really, but if you don't I wouldn't suggest speaking out of ignorance either and chalking up a decision you don't like to laziness on our part. At the very least, have compassion for the kittens.

I'm talking about this^^^

If ditching Isabela gives me more character customization or more game features, then they needed to ditch her in my opinion. Or if it mean we could have Anders

[PsychoBlonde]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Well if Gaider is asking for stuff the throw out I suggest Isabela, I don't see why they should have included her over other characters like Anders, but this is just an opinion, but if getting rid of her allowed rogues to wield more than two puny daggers &/or equip shields I vote to get rid of her.

What?

I second that what?

And I thought Anders was a tedious Alistair retread--and I thought Alistair was pretty tedious from the get-go.  Given a choice between the Pirate Queen and Alistair 33 1/3 (Naked Gun reference, sorry), I'll go with Pirate Queen even if she's HORRIBLY hackneyed.  At least it'll be a DIFFERENT hackneyed.

[Drasanil]

Nerivant wrote...

Drasanil wrote...

Nerivant wrote...

Drasanil wrote...

Nerivant wrote...

Drasanil wrote...
Then why waste time on modelling gender options and a second VO for what is little more than an alternate appearance? Jiggly breast and nice outfits would have eliminated the need for a he-Hawke.

Gender had more of an effect on DAO's story than your race did.

Which according to what David wrote would be more of an argument for ditching gender options as opposed to racial ones.

Which, according to you, means that all alternate appearances are superficial. Everyone is now male Hawke, with only one set of armor, and one weapon, for the entire game.

So much fun!

Well if you're focussing on "the story", which is what you're ostensibly defending, that would be the logical conclusion don't you think? Cut out all extraneous bits to focus on more story.

PS: I think I made a rather compelling point as to why it should be fem-Hawke with jiggly breast and an awesome wardrobe as opposed to man Hawke

You have to draw the line somewhere.

Why?


*I can do throw-away one liners too.

[Nerivant]

Drasanil wrote...
Why?


*I can do throw-away one liners too.

Because if you don't...

*puts on sunglasses*

You end up playing a text adventure.





YEEEAAAAAHHHHHH!

[silentassassin264]

Addai67 wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...
It really didn't take meta-ing information.  My first character I made was a city elf because when I saw the trailer and stuff for that origin, it really seemed to resonate with me.  I played through the origin story and through Ostagar but as I went through after that, I steadily lost interest.  My city elf could not even go back into the alienage to see her family.  She is tasked with dealing with a bunch of human noble politics which she really doesn't care for especially since she was kidnapped by one and her cousin is raped by the same one.  I got bored of being compelled to do things my character would not have done (as I said I would have broken back into the alienage immediately).  

Ok, but all you're really saying is that those origins didn't work for you.  I played a city elf my first character and finished the game with her.  She wasn't my favorite, but that was because I was figuring out the gameplay and lore and she was an all around disaster.  But I've never connected to my Cousland characters with the same feeling as I do my elven characters.  It's a taste thing.

That is the point.  The other origins blurred into you are a generic nobody and your specific origin meant nothing outside of the prologue and Orzammar for the dwarf and Dalish camp/alienage for elves.  If you play a human noble versus a human mage, you reception is drastically different from npcs.  

Whether you are a human or elven mage made very little difference either outside or in the Tower, and other than a few nobles no one recognizes you as a Cousland.  So you're just like any other human.  How is that any different than being recognized only as "elf"?

Actually, the city elf was my favorite origin.  It is not that the origin did not work for me, it was that the game did not work for that origin.  

Part of the reason for the mage origin was pointing out that it didn't matter if you were human or elf, everyone treated you as just a mage.  Or in other words, the human/elf mage origins were supposed to be essentially the same as everyone would see you as essentially the same.  Using that as your example is inadvisable.

Next, like everyone recognized you as a noble.  From off the top of my head, Jory does, Wynne does, Knights of Redcliffe, Alistair, Dryden, Avernus etc.  Your reception as a human mage and human noble is quite different.  

Modifié par silentassassin264, 17 novembre 2010 - 11:21 .

[AlanC9]

silentassassin264 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Okay... so you use this thinking as the basis to challenge what? The idea that only 15% of people ever played an elf because the human noble was so important? Never mind that the vast majority never finished the game or tried it more than once to go and agree with your line of thinking that they needed to play the human noble origin to get their "optimal" playthrough?

Sorry. Don't buy it. Not sure why you're selling it, either.

Really?  So despite you have the data that only 15% of people wanted to play as an elf you are going to ignore a reason why people didn't play as elves?

Didn't finish as elves, you mean. You yourself had to play as an elf to know that you didn't want to keep playing as one. I'm pretty sure the figures are that most players didn't even try the nonhuman origins. I'm not sure how much of that data they'll let DG leak, though.

 and the human noble starts with a reason to go on.

Again, he simply does not. You know he's going to meet up with Howe again, but the character doesn't know that.

[Piecake]

FedericoV wrote...
Maybe, a game with two parallel tales in ASoIaF style (one with an elven protagonist and the other with a dwarven one, two tales that interact with each other in some way to form a single story). It would even be a great way to reconcile the community on that issue.

You stole my idea!

*shakes fist*

[silentassassin264]

AlanC9 wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Okay... so you use this thinking as the basis to challenge what? The idea that only 15% of people ever played an elf because the human noble was so important? Never mind that the vast majority never finished the game or tried it more than once to go and agree with your line of thinking that they needed to play the human noble origin to get their "optimal" playthrough?

Sorry. Don't buy it. Not sure why you're selling it, either.

Really?  So despite you have the data that only 15% of people wanted to play as an elf you are going to ignore a reason why people didn't play as elves?

Didn't finish as elves, you mean. You yourself had to play as an elf to know that you didn't want to keep playing as one. I'm pretty sure the figures are that most players didn't even try the nonhuman origins. I'm not sure how much of that data they'll let DG leak, though.

 and the human noble starts with a reason to go on.

Again, he simply does not. You know he's going to meet up with Howe again, but the character doesn't know that.

Well yes finish as elves.  You got me.

And yes you do.  As soon as you go to Denerim early (which I almost always do to get supplies) you find out that Howe is the Arl of Denerim and was appointed by Loghain.  You don't have to metagame to find that out.  Nice try though.

Modifié par silentassassin264, 17 novembre 2010 - 11:28 .

[AlanC9]

silentassassin264 wrote...
Actually, the city elf was my favorite origin.  It is not that the origin did not work for me, it was that the game did not work for that origin.  

The game didn't work for a city elf because nobody recognized your character?

[Drasanil]

AlanC9 wrote...

 and the human noble starts with a reason to go on.

Again, he simply does not. You know he's going to meet up with Howe again, but the character doesn't know that.

If anything the human noble has a better case for not going on and simply killing him(her)self. His whole world has been destroyed he's been reduced to a penniless Grey Warden and the odds of getting back at Howe who holds most of the cards would be rather slim. Compared to the city elf, who just killed an Arl, saved her/his cousin and more or less got away with it scott-free and was handed a social-promotion to boot, if anything he/she has much more to live for.

[AlanC9]

silentassassin264 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Okay... so you use this thinking as the basis to challenge what? The idea that only 15% of people ever played an elf because the human noble was so important? Never mind that the vast majority never finished the game or tried it more than once to go and agree with your line of thinking that they needed to play the human noble origin to get their "optimal" playthrough?

Sorry. Don't buy it. Not sure why you're selling it, either.

Really?  So despite you have the data that only 15% of people wanted to play as an elf you are going to ignore a reason why people didn't play as elves?

Didn't finish as elves, you mean. You yourself had to play as an elf to know that you didn't want to keep playing as one. I'm pretty sure the figures are that most players didn't even try the nonhuman origins. I'm not sure how much of that data they'll let DG leak, though.

 and the human noble starts with a reason to go on.

Again, he simply does not. You know he's going to meet up with Howe again, but the character doesn't know that.

Well yes finish as elves.  You got me.

The point is that a reason not to finish as an elf isn't an explanation of why someone would never start as an elf.

And yes you do.  As soon as you go to Denerim early (which I almost always do to get supplies) you find out that Howe is the Arl of Denerim and was appointed by Loghain.  You don't have to metagame to find that out.  Nice try though.

I'll take your word for that. There's nothing worth buying in Denerim that early so I never go there. Who tells you he's been appointed Arl, anyway?

So your point is that if a human noble goes to Denerim first, he's motivated. Otherwise, he isn't.