Maria Caliban wrote...
If you're going to make it personal, do something like the human noble origin where Howe butchered your entire family.
Xewaka wrote...
Stanley Woo wrote...
Sorry, I was working until 11pm last night and wasn't the last one out of the office. what was that you were saying about laziness?
Wait wait wait. Not only are you too lazy to allow customization, you're so inefficient at lazyness you have to work extra? Well that's new.
(In case it isn't obvious enoguh, this is a joke)
Modifié par philbo1965uk, 18 novembre 2010 - 01:10 .
Okay. You haven't convinced me as to your point, and in fact I don't find it easier to name reasons not to fight at all. Here's one: How about what my Dalish Warden told Shianni, "are you going to fight like an elf or are you going to run away like a coward"?silentassassin264 wrote...
And you just helped prove why I am happy they removed the origins in DA2. The reason you have to fight in all the other origins than human noble is seriously diminished. In fact, it is easier to name reasons not to fight. Hopefully with Hawke, they can tailor the story to one character and not have things like that because and I quote "Sorry. Don't buy it. Not sure why you're selling it, either."
Modifié par Addai67, 18 novembre 2010 - 01:22 .
Addai67 wrote...
But if all you were looking for was a reason to believe what you already believe about the origins, there's not much point in discussing it. And it sounds like Hawke's fleeing the Blight story is right up your alley.
Modifié par Stick668, 18 novembre 2010 - 02:15 .
I'm aware. I assume you didn't play Origins at all, since your only choice was to make a PC who was certifiable.In Exile wrote...
Addai67 wrote...
But if all you were looking for was a reason to believe what you already believe about the origins, there's not much point in discussing it. And it sounds like Hawke's fleeing the Blight story is right up your alley.
It's the only not-insane action. And it's what Duncan would have done ( I believe Gaider said as much).
David Gaider wrote...
Davasar wrote...
But you know...that would be a terrible idea right?
I think so, yes, but that's probably because I attach less value to the prospect of merely having an alternate physical appearance-- the player being elven or dwarven even though there is absolutely nothing else that is elven or dwarven about them. That sounds like an awesome reason to do all that extra work on the armor models, sure.
Aermas wrote...
David Gaider wrote...
Drasanil wrote...
You mean 4 extra models for races that are already there in game? That's a load of bull and you know it, we already know there are dwarves and elves in game they just decided to cut out your ability to play as one and honestly if mods are anything to go by resizing armor really isn't all that hard.
Whooo there goes another kitten. Tsk.
Honestly, people who don't know what they're talking about shouldn't make such sweeping statements.
Consider what you already know: the PC is the only character who is going to be actively swapping multiple armor models throughout the game. If you're only looking for one reason, there it is-- and it's no small one. And "resizing" the armor is simplifying the issue... it's work, and multiplied across all equippable armors in the game, times 2. We could do that work, but where would you like it to come from? Which enemy creatures, follower appearances and NPC armor models would you like to cut? None, I assume, but there are limited resources to divide considering the short timeframe we have to make the game.
Just add more time? Yes, that would be nice-- but that's not what we're doing. We could make a smaller game or have less variety in appearances for the PC, I suppose, but the trade-off has to come from somewhere.
And that's only if you look at this one aspect. There are others. I don't expect you to know them, or even care about them really, but if you don't I wouldn't suggest speaking out of ignorance either and chalking up a decision you don't like to laziness on our part. At the very least, have compassion for the kittens.
I'm talking about this^^^
If ditching Isabela gives me more character customization or more game features, then they needed to ditch her in my opinion. Or if it mean we could have Anders
Addai67 wrote...
I'm aware. I assume you didn't play Origins at all, since your only choice was to make a PC who was certifiable.
Stick668 wrote...
You are in a maze of twisting choices, faced with impossible odds.
> FIGHT LIKE AN ELF
You die a glorious death. Reload Y/N?
> Y
Choice, impossible odds, etc.
> RUN AWAY WHILE YELLING FOR MATERNAL PARENT
Congratulations, you may proceed. In the future, please note I'm not kidding about "impossible".
No idea why, but this reminded me of the spirit avatar sequence in Watcher's Keep (BG2:ToB). Brings a tear to the eye.Stick668 wrote...
You are in a maze of twisting choices, faced with impossible odds.
> FIGHT LIKE AN ELF
You die a glorious death. Reload Y/N?
> Y
Choice, impossible odds, etc.
> RUN AWAY WHILE YELLING FOR MATERNAL PARENT
Congratulations, you may proceed. In the future, please note I'm not kidding about "impossible".
David Gaider wrote...
I guess that really depends on whether you defeine ROLE PLAYING as being able to play anyone you can imagine. I don't think everyone does, nor do all roleplaying games... some of which are still pretty good, and offer lots of choices.
I think it would also be a mistake for someone to exaggerate and say that not being able to select your race means not being able to define your character at all. It's not true, yet some folks seem to enjoy engaging in reductio ad absurdum as if that makes their point more valid. I think we all get that some people place more importance on appearance choices, even if they are purely cosmetic. That does not make it the "true roleplayer's" perogative.
Shadow Wing wrote...
David Gaider wrote...
I guess that really depends on whether you defeine ROLE PLAYING as being able to play anyone you can imagine. I don't think everyone does, nor do all roleplaying games... some of which are still pretty good, and offer lots of choices.
I think it would also be a mistake for someone to exaggerate and say that not being able to select your race means not being able to define your character at all. It's not true, yet some folks seem to enjoy engaging in reductio ad absurdum as if that makes their point more valid. I think we all get that some people place more importance on appearance choices, even if they are purely cosmetic. That does not make it the "true roleplayer's" perogative.
I agree that customization of a characters appearance doesn't make or break a game but you do have to admit it does make a difference in making the game more immersive for players...but i'm curious why do you think that only 15% of the players play as elves? Is it because of the story or other factors? I honestly just want to know.
I mean as I have said, I'm fine now about the decision made for this game to limit race for the sake of a more immersive story but one of the great aspects of DAO storywise was the conflict between the races and in DAO you could affect the situation by which race you choose and the decisions you make. You could see the conflict from different perspective. What I'm worried about now is that the storyline would become one-sided in favour of being human, you no longer have the option to choose which side you want to side with since you would have to support humanity since you are playing a human.
Addai67 wrote...
I'm aware. I assume you didn't play Origins at all, since your only choice was to make a PC who was certifiable.
Thalorin1919 wrote...
Since when do stories have to follow the whole, "If you're human, you have to support humans." idea you just laid down?
Lies! We all know you spend the day having interns do all your work for you while you spend the day torturing us for fun in various/creative ways with the occasional snack and nap to keep you well rested. At the most you just check on the interns to make sure they are doing the work and light a fire under their butts if you feel they aren't working hard enough.Stanley Woo wrote...
Sorry, I was working until 11pm last night and wasn't the last one out of the office. what was that you were saying about laziness?Weiser_Cain wrote...
Wait, are you saying companions are stuck in their original costume for the whole game? That's horrible! How is that not lazyness?
Can only play as a humanShadow Wing wrote...
I commented about this in the "Concerns and things you dont like...." topic so thought maybe it should have its own thread...What do you guys think of this? Personally I was really disappointed when I found out that you can only play as a human. I mean I'm still looking forward to this game but one of the highlights for me in origins was the ability to play different races and have different sides.
The two big reason I dislike this limitation is first you lose a bit of flexibility in repleability in the game. But that can be managed if the game is really interesting. Secondly, I worked hard on my origins saved games so that I made a particular race/faction a bit stronger or something, I hoped that it would be transferable to the first game. From what I understand, decisions are still carried over to the second game but without the ability to play the other races, you don't seem to benefit from it. I mean playing only as a human, I would assume that you would be defending the human factions most of the time which is annoying since on my saved games I purposely made the decision to benefit other races aside from humans. But now that kinda disappears though. It also means you can't side with other factions now. I had the same problem in Mass effect actually, sometimes I actually agreed with the other races but since I was playing a human, I was supposed to defend humans.
silentassassin264 wrote...
AlanC9 wrote...
silentassassin264 wrote...
Really? So despite you have the data that only 15% of people wanted to play as an elf you are going to ignore a reason why people didn't play as elves?David Gaider wrote...
Okay... so you use this thinking as the basis to challenge what? The idea that only 15% of people ever played an elf because the human noble was so important? Never mind that the vast majority never finished the game or tried it more than once to go and agree with your line of thinking that they needed to play the human noble origin to get their "optimal" playthrough?
Sorry. Don't buy it. Not sure why you're selling it, either.
Didn't finish as elves, you mean. You yourself had to play as an elf to know that you didn't want to keep playing as one. I'm pretty sure the figures are that most players didn't even try the nonhuman origins. I'm not sure how much of that data they'll let DG leak, though.and the human noble starts with a reason to go on.
Again, he simply does not. You know he's going to meet up with Howe again, but the character doesn't know that.
Well yes finish as elves. You got me.
And yes you do. As soon as you go to Denerim early (which I almost always do to get supplies) you find out that Howe is the Arl of Denerim and was appointed by Loghain. You don't have to metagame to find that out. Nice try though.
Dragon Age WAS it's own separate entity from Mass Effect, and it was fine that way. Because both games felt different which gave us variety.Upsettingshorts wrote...
Thalorin1919 wrote...
Since when do stories have to follow the whole, "If you're human, you have to support humans." idea you just laid down?
You mean I had to be a Geth or Quarian to have chosen a side?!? WHAT WAS I DOING IN ALL THOSE ME2 THREADS THEN?!
Damn you Bioware for removing choice! I should have been a Geth so I could be immersed in the hive mind.
Sharn01 wrote...
Wait a second, so you are using that as a reason?
So as a city elf you go to denerim to see your family, only to find out that Loghain has locked down the alienage and the person he appointed is slaughtering elves to put them back into place after a minor revolt over your wedding rebellion does not motivate you to go after him at all?
Thalorin1919 wrote...
Since when do stories have to follow the whole, "If you're human, you have to support humans." idea you just laid down?
Have you ever seen Avatar? Dances with Wolves?
I'm sure the racial tension will still be apparent in Dragon Age 2. The writers know that is a strength of their world, and I highly doubt they are going to throw that out because you play as a human. It's still an RPG people, they will still give you choices. If you want to choose the Elves over the Humans, it'll be there. It's a Bioware game.
silentassassin264 wrote...
With Duncan and the Grey Wardens dead, a city elf has absolutely no reason to risk their life to save Ferelden and all the humans who persecute them. It also doesn't help that the whole Landsmeet/ending the civil war is Ferelden human politics. If I seriously cared about ending the blight as a city elf, I would have gone to Orlais and waited with the other Wardens for Ferelden to get into shape and then end the blight sensibly (whether Ferelden fell or not).
Modifié par Face of Evil, 18 novembre 2010 - 07:25 .
TwistedComplex wrote...
My face ;:|
Face of Evil wrote...
Ferelden at least allowed the elven people to be free, unlike Orlais or the Tevinter Imperium.
Modifié par Maria Caliban, 18 novembre 2010 - 07:16 .
Maria Caliban wrote...
Slavery is illegal in Orlais. The alienages are worse because cities in Orlais are much, much bigger and have overcrowding problems.
Modifié par Face of Evil, 18 novembre 2010 - 07:26 .
Face of Evil wrote...
Maria Caliban wrote...
Slavery is illegal in Orlais. The alienages are worse because cities in Orlais are much, much bigger and have overcrowding problems.
Fair enough. I edited my original post.
Still, my argument stands.
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