443 réponses à ce sujet

[Faust1979]

my favorite origins so far are the Dalish Elf and the Dwarf Noble. Didn't care for The Human Noble. The City Elf was alright. Still haven't played Mage or the dwarf commoner one.

[silentassassin264]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Whether you agree with it or not, the dwarf noble has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with Orzammar politics.
Whether you agree with it or not, the dalish elf has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with the werewolves in the Brcilian Forest.
Whether you agree with it ot not, the Circle mage has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with the Chantry politics.
Whether you agree with it or not, the city elf has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with Denerim politics.
Whether you agree with it or not, the dwarf commoner has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with the Orzammar carta.

You are free to disagree with us. discussion from a bunch of different perspectives is certainly one reason this community and this forum exists. But please don't believe that yours is the most popular, best, or only opinion being discussed. Thank you.

Not necessarily.  While they are your fellow Dalish, they are not your clan.  And if you want to pretend that they just would love you for being Dalish, they don't let you get the Song Book at first either so they don't exactly think of a Dalish Warden as family either.  A Dalish having more motivation in Nature of the Beast is like saying that a Human should care about what happens to humans anywhere else just because humans stick together and we all know that is blatant lies.

[AlanC9]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Consider what you already know: the PC is the only character who is going to be actively swapping multiple armor models throughout the game. If you're only looking for one reason, there it is-- and it's no small one. And "resizing" the armor is simplifying the issue... it's work, and multiplied across all equippable armors in the game, times 2. We could do that work, but where would you like it to come from?

The new art and models.

DAO already had perfectly cromulent models.  By changing the art style and building new models for everything, you created this problem.

Simply not having created it would be the solution.

I don't think you're using "cromulent" correctly there.

[Maria Caliban]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Whether you agree with it or not, the dwarf noble has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with Orzammar politics.
Whether you agree with it or not, the dalish elf has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with the werewolves in the Brcilian Forest.
Whether you agree with it ot not, the Circle mage has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with the Chantry politics.
Whether you agree with it or not, the city elf has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with Denerim politics.
Whether you agree with it or not, the dwarf commoner has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with the Orzammar carta.

I'll admit that I never considered this.

[Ortaya Alevli]

silentassassin264 wrote...

A Dalish having more motivation in Nature of the Beast is like saying that a Human should care about what happens to humans anywhere else just because humans stick together and we all know that is blatant lies.

Maybe the Dalish indeed stick together? There are certain communities in real life of which members do stick together in all honesty.

[AlanC9]

silentassassin264 wrote...
Not necessarily.  While they are your fellow Dalish, they are not your clan.  And if you want to pretend that they just would love you for being Dalish, they don't let you get the Song Book at first either so they don't exactly think of a Dalish Warden as family either.  A Dalish having more motivation in Nature of the Beast is like saying that a Human should care about what happens to humans anywhere else just because humans stick together and we all know that is blatant lies.

That's overstated. Members of persecuted minorities do tend to stick together.

But the essential point is true. Dalish Elf is often said to be the weakest of the origins because there's nothing personal at stake for the PC. Unlike the City Elf, the Blight isn't an immediate threat to his particular tribe, since they're much further away.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Whether you agree with it or not, the dwarf noble has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with Orzammar politics.
Whether you agree with it or not, the dalish elf has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with the werewolves in the Brcilian Forest.
Whether you agree with it ot not, the Circle mage has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with the Chantry politics.
Whether you agree with it or not, the city elf has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with Denerim politics.
Whether you agree with it or not, the dwarf commoner has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with the Orzammar carta.

I'll admit that I never considered this.

Because you didn't CARE.

You humans are all racist.

[FieryDove]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Consider what you already know: the PC is the only character who is going to be actively swapping multiple armor models throughout the game. If you're only looking for one reason, there it is-- and it's no small one. And "resizing" the armor is simplifying the issue... it's work, and multiplied across all equippable armors in the game, times 2. We could do that work, but where would you like it to come from?

The new art and models.

DAO already had perfectly cromulent models.  By changing the art style and building new models for everything, you created this problem.

Simply not having created it would be the solution.

I never thought I'd see it...but David you have been bested. Or in new improved terms pwned!

[silentassassin264]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Maybe the Dalish indeed stick together? There are certain communities in real life of which members do stick together in all honesty.

AlanC9 wrote...
That's overstated. Members of persecuted minorities do tend to stick together.

But the essential point is true. Dalish Elf is often said to be the weakest of the origins because there's nothing personal at stake for the PC. Unlike the City Elf, the Blight isn't an immediate threat to his particular tribe, since they're much further away.

I am not saying that that assumption is wrong, I am just saying it is not necessarily true.  Origins gave us no Dalish-Dalish interaction besides a Dalish Warden going to Zathrian's clan.  While they were nice enough not to threaten you, like I said, there was still plenty distinction that you were not of that clan and therefore different.  A Dalish warden could call up some Dalish or even just plain elf solidarity but it is not anything close to the other examples.

[Face of Evil]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Not necessarily.  While they are your fellow Dalish, they are not your clan.  And if you want to pretend that they just would love you for being Dalish, they don't let you get the Song Book at first either so they don't exactly think of a Dalish Warden as family either.  A Dalish having more motivation in Nature of the Beast is like saying that a Human should care about what happens to humans anywhere else just because humans stick together and we all know that is blatant lies.

If that's what you think, then you don't understand a goddamn thing about the Dalish elves.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 18 novembre 2010 - 11:28 .

[silentassassin264]

Face of Evil wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Not necessarily.  While they are your fellow Dalish, they are not your clan.  And if you want to pretend that they just would love you for being Dalish, they don't let you get the Song Book at first either so they don't exactly think of a Dalish Warden as family either.  A Dalish having more motivation in Nature of the Beast is like saying that a Human should care about what happens to humans anywhere else just because humans stick together and we all know that is blatant lies.

If that's what you think, then you don't understand a goddamn thing about the Dalish elves.

Well please enlighten me.  I am just a simple forumite and I know nothing.

[Face of Evil]

You asked why a Dalish elf should care about the survival of other clans beyond your own. If you understood the point of their culture, you’d comprehend that, to a Dalish, the life of every single clansman is precious, whether or not they are connected by blood.



The Dalish aren’t simply a loosely-knit group of wandering clans struggling to maintain independence from the human nations they are forced to reside in. The Dalish are one nation, but are forced to separate into smaller groups to avoid drawing attention from those same human rulers, who may mistake a large gathering of elves to be a threat.



They are the keepers of what little elven lore still exists in Thedas, the last vestiges of the great nation of Arlathan. They have taken on a sacred duty of guarding that lore for the day that the elves once again come together and reclaim their lost nation.



Do you think that it is an easy life for them, wandering from place to place, never being able to settle in one spot for too long out of fear that they might be targeted by the humans? It’s not. But it is necessary.



When a clan is destroyed or simply dies out, the knowledge that they protected goes with them. Then the Dalish as a whole come that much closer to losing their last connections to their culture.



Once that is gone, the Dalish are nothing more than homeless outcasts. And even if the elves are once again given a land to call their own, they will never regain what they’ve lost.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Meltemph wrote...

I would have preferred just a Dwarf race focus... I bet that would go over like a lead balloon, huh?

I would actually buy this game...seriously. Though I would still wonder why they focused on dwarves and not all the races since they were featured in the original flagship game. It is odd for a game to take options away from a player instead of following a more limited, linear style. It may be easier for the writers to write a deep story but what about the gamers? Isn't the balance disturbed a bit against those whom you wish to purchase your product? More freedoms are taken away from the gamers than are given to the game writers. It's tossing a lead weight on the seasaw of doom, it won't end in happy faces for either side.

[Slvrbuu]

I'm not too disappointed. In almost all games I play I always play human(if availible). That's not to say that the option of being something else wasn't a pleasent one, but mostly unused. Plus being just human allows for the complete voice acting in which they said they have added. I'm a big fan of voice acting, especially games like MassEffect. Plus it would probably make you feel like the decisions you made were for not, due to the lore probably aiming for a Human Lord, this way it's easy to pick up for future expansions and what not.

[Adanu]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Adanu wrote...
David,
people play role playing games with motivations in mind. What makes my
character want to do anything? The human noble, whether you agree with
it or not, has a *lot* more motivation for dealing in Fereldan politics.
The rest feel stale in comparison. if you don't want to admit that your
team did not put as much motivational stuff into all the other origins,
that is fine, but we still see it differently, and *we* are the ones
who buy the game.

Please speak for yourself and drop the "we."

Please drop the semantic crap and learn that we means people who buy the game.

Please
dont' be rude to fellow community members, and remember that for every
"you" who has an opinion about the game, there thousands who are not
"you." Addai67 is requesting that you not speak for everyone who bought
the game, a group which, presumably, also includes Addai67.

And
"you" should consider that the game isn't as unbalanced as your
sensationalist hyperbole makes it sound. the human noble has an additional motivation for dealing in Fereldan politics: he's a human noble who was dispossessed by Howe. Done.

Everyone
else has the same reasons for dealing in Fereldan politics: to get
support from the Landsmeet against the darkspawn. this does not mean we
put any more or less work or thought into non-human noble origins. in
fact, we worked even harder on non-human nobles so their stories would
feel and play just as well as human nobles.

Whether you agree with it or not, the dwarf noble has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with Orzammar politics.
Whether
you agree with it or not, the dalish elf has a *lot* more motivation in
dealing with the werewolves in the Brcilian Forest.
Whether you agree with it ot not, the Circle mage has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with the Chantry politics.
Whether you agree with it or not, the city elf has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with Denerim politics.
Whether you agree with it or not, the dwarf commoner has a *lot* more motivation in dealing with the Orzammar carta.

You
are free to disagree with us. discussion from a bunch of different
perspectives is certainly one reason this community and this forum
exists. But please don't believe that yours is the most popular, best,
or only opinion being discussed. Thank you.

You completely missed my point. The *point* is that David (and you it seems?) does not want to admit that the human noble origin gives players a lot more reason to care about what happens to Ferelden. The rest are more or less conscripted and then left for dead. I see very little reason after Lothering why the Wardens would care. I've played them all.

It isn't sensationalist hyperbole. I am simply not one for playing politically correct.

Addai67 wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Adanu wrote...

David, people play role playing games with motivations in mind. What makes my character want to do anything? The human noble, whether you agree with it or not, has a *lot* more motivation for dealing in Fereldan politics. The rest feel stale in comparison. if you don't want to admit that your team did not put as much motivational stuff into all the other origins, that is fine, but we still see it differently, and *we* are the ones who buy the game.

Please speak for yourself and drop the "we."

Please drop the semantic crap and learn that we means people who buy the game.

You do see the DAO and DAA badges under my avatar, yes?  I've played all the origins, and have played all the origins to completion except the dwarf and a human mage.  My favorites by far are Dalish and elf mage. 

So, as long as your "we" is "people who think exactly like me," we're cool.  If by "we" you mean everyone who played the game, you're presuming a lot.

That is what I meant with the first one,, yes. The second we was to say that 'we' (as in people like me) are some of your best customers, and we've been around for years.

[Maconbar]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Consider what you already know: the PC is the only character who is going to be actively swapping multiple armor models throughout the game. If you're only looking for one reason, there it is-- and it's no small one. And "resizing" the armor is simplifying the issue... it's work, and multiplied across all equippable armors in the game, times 2. We could do that work, but where would you like it to come from?

The new art and models.

DAO already had perfectly cromulent models.  By changing the art style and building new models for everything, you created this problem.

Simply not having created it would be the solution.

I don't think you're using "cromulent" correctly there.

I think he meant corpulent.

[AlanC9]

Adanu wrote...
 The *point* is that David (and you it seems?) does not want to admit that the human noble origin gives players a lot more reason to care about what happens to Ferelden.

That's right. He doesn't want to admit it, and neither do I. Because you're simply wrong.

The mage, human noble, and city elf have exactly the same thing at stake in the main plot since their homes and families are all directly threatened.

Now, if you want to say that there's a difference between these three and the other three, go right ahead. Dalish Elf, as I've said upthread, isn't a well-motivated origin. The dwarves actually do have compelling reasons to join the Wardens, but those reasons don't really have anything to do with saving Ferelden -- that's more a means to an end, except for characters who want to fight the Blight because it's The Right Thing To Do.

[Adanu]

AlanC9 wrote...

Adanu wrote...
 The *point* is that David (and you it seems?) does not want to admit that the human noble origin gives players a lot more reason to care about what happens to Ferelden.

That's right. He doesn't want to admit it, and neither do I. Because you're simply wrong.

The mage, human noble, and city elf have exactly the same thing at stake in the main plot since their homes and families are all directly threatened.

Now, if you want to say that there's a difference between these three and the other three, go right ahead. Dalish Elf, as I've said upthread, isn't a well-motivated origin. The dwarves actually do have compelling reasons to join the Wardens, but those reasons don't really have anything to do with saving Ferelden -- that's more a means to an end, except for characters who want to fight the Blight because it's The Right Thing To Do.

City elves can also hate their family and take the coin and try to escape the city. After joining the grey wardens, why would this kind of city elf want to go back to a slum craphole?

[Face of Evil]

Adanu wrote...

You completely missed my point. The *point* is that David (and you it seems?) does not want to admit that the human noble origin gives players a lot more reason to care about what happens to Ferelden. The rest are more or less conscripted and then left for dead. I see very little reason after Lothering why the Wardens would care. I've played them all.

A ridiculous notion. I have never finished the game with an Human Noble character and I've never had any issue understanding my character's motivations for defeating the Blight.

Honestly, I would let it slide if you weren't trying to frame your statements as fact. You don't speak for me, bub.

Adanu wrote...

That is what I meant with the first one,, yes. The second we was to say that 'we' (as in people like me) are some of your best customers, and we've been around for years.

Do you honestly believe you somehow "out-rank" the other people here? Because ... what, you shelled out for BG2 a few years ago? Somehow that grants you priviliges and insight the rest of us don't have?

On the Fan Dumb page from TV Tropes, they call that mentality King Customer.

Adanu wrote...

City elves can also hate their family and take the coin and try to escape the city. After joining the grey wardens, why would this kind of city elf want to go back to a slum craphole?

And maybe the Human Noble hated his/her family and is glad to see them dead. What's your point? None of the origins prevent you from playing a purely self-interested jerk. But if you want to do that, then you have to come up with your own reason for stopping the Blight.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 19 novembre 2010 - 05:27 .

[Adanu]

Face of Evil wrote...

Adanu wrote...

You completely missed my point. The *point* is that David (and you it seems?) does not want to admit that the human noble origin gives players a lot more reason to care about what happens to Ferelden. The rest are more or less conscripted and then left for dead. I see very little reason after Lothering why the Wardens would care. I've played them all.

A ridiculous notion. I have never finished the game with an Human Noble character and I've never had any issue understanding my character's motivations for defeating the Blight.

Honestly, I would let it slide if you weren't trying to frame your statements as fact. You don't speak for me, bub.

Adanu wrote...

That is what I meant with the first one,, yes. The second we was to say that 'we' (as in people like me) are some of your best customers, and we've been around for years.

Do you honestly believe you somehow "out-rank" the other people here? Because ... what, you shelled out for BG2 a few years ago? Somehow that grants you priviliges and insight the rest of us don't have?

Adanu wrote...

City elves can also hate their family and take the coin and try to escape the city. After joining the grey wardens, why would this kind of city elf want to go back to a slum craphole?

And maybe the Human Noble hated his/her family and is glad to see them dead. What's your point? None of the origins prevent you from playing a purely self-interested jerk.

You are misreading what I am saying and taking implications that are not there. I'm not looking to debate something that I have clearly stated as contrary to what you are reading from me, however, I will just state that I did not say anything about elitism. I am stating that *WE ARE CUSTOMERS TOO*

There, do the big words help?

[Face of Evil]

Adanu wrote...

You are misreading what I am saying and taking implications that are not there. I'm not looking to debate something that I have clearly stated as contrary to what you are reading from me, however, I will just state that I did not say anything about elitism. I am stating that *WE ARE CUSTOMERS TOO*

Oh, well, my pardon, good sir. Now, if you can stop acting like a condescending jackass for a moment, perhaps you would please enlighten me to your point? Because this is what I'm hearing from you:

1) The Human Noble is the only Origin that gives the Warden a reason to keep fighting.
2) You've bought Bioware's merchandise and that means you're entitled to special treatment.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 19 novembre 2010 - 05:37 .

[Sharn01]

Maconbar wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Consider what you already know: the PC is the only character who is going to be actively swapping multiple armor models throughout the game. If you're only looking for one reason, there it is-- and it's no small one. And "resizing" the armor is simplifying the issue... it's work, and multiplied across all equippable armors in the game, times 2. We could do that work, but where would you like it to come from?

The new art and models.

DAO already had perfectly cromulent models.  By changing the art style and building new models for everything, you created this problem.

Simply not having created it would be the solution.

I don't think you're using "cromulent" correctly there.

I think he meant corpulent.

Cromulent has several meanings, but I would wager he was using it in place of fine and acceptable, which is what it is is used for most frequently from my experiance, so he used the world correctly.  If anything though he hurt his post by using such an obscure word, when trying to make a point its best to frame it in a way that is easily understandable by everyone.

Now, back to the debate.

[Ziggeh]

Has anyone else been trying to work the word "embiggens" into a response for the last few hours?

[Piecake]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Has anyone else been trying to work the word "embiggens" into a response for the last few hours?

Such a noble and positve word definitely doesnt belong on these forums