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[Ashaman X]

In Origins, you were being recruited as a Warden, and the Wardens take candidates from almost all races and both genders. That's why we had the Origin stories I dare to presume. After the Origin, most of the game was the same for every race/class, with only small differences here and there.



Think back to Lothering for a moment. I don't recall seeing any Dwarves there, nor do I recall seeing Elves. The town was full of humans only. Hawke and family fled from there, so it's obvious why he/she is human. DA2 isn't about the Wardens, so it made sense in a way to focus on one race. If there are more DA games in the future, then I'm sure the other races will pop up again as options.

[ok go]

how dare you forget sandal

[KLUME777]

ok go wrote...

how dare you forget sandal

But we dont play as Sandal.

Hey, what if Bodahn and Sandal are in DA2!, in Lothering!

[mesmerizedish]

Ashaman X wrote...

In Origins, you were being recruited as a Warden, and the Wardens take candidates from almost all races and both genders. That's why we had the Origin stories I dare to presume. After the Origin, most of the game was the same for every race/class, with only small differences here and there.

Think back to Lothering for a moment. I don't recall seeing any Dwarves there, nor do I recall seeing Elves. The town was full of humans only. Hawke and family fled from there, so it's obvious why he/she is human. DA2 isn't about the Wardens, so it made sense in a way to focus on one race. If there are more DA games in the future, then I'm sure the other races will pop up again as options.

There was indeed a family of elves who had been robbed by the bandits you meet on your way into the village.

[mesmerizedish]

AlanC9 wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

That's exactly my point. Race doesn't HAVE to matter to the story. I don't really want it to. Just because an option doesn't matter doesn't mean it isn't beneficial.

What's the benefit?

The benefit is being able to play as an elf/dwarf/half-ogre/whatever the hell you want. What's the benefit of being able to play either gender? What's the benefit of being able to choose the attitude of your spoken lines? It's an RP choice.

[AlanC9]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

That's exactly my point. Race doesn't HAVE to matter to the story. I don't really want it to. Just because an option doesn't matter doesn't mean it isn't beneficial.

What's the benefit?

The benefit is being able to play as an elf/dwarf/half-ogre/whatever the hell you want. What's the benefit of being able to play either gender? What's the benefit of being able to choose the attitude of your spoken lines? It's an RP choice.

Gender doesn't count, since gender choice does change something about how the game plays.

Edit: I'll desnark that a little. Playing as your own gender obviously does matter to some people even when the game doesn't recognize the gender of the PC. But that can't be the issue when talking about non-human PCs.

I suppose the inflection of spoken lines might be a good parallel, though, depending on whether or not NPCs can actually pick up on your character's tone. We'll have to see.

Modifié par AlanC9, 14 novembre 2010 - 08:47 .

[Dave of Canada]

DA2 system's benefits (off the top of my drunken mind):

- A more central plot that is capable of hosting your family and making it more of a personal experience throughout the entire game instead of having your family disappear / die and then just show up saying "Oh hey my *son/daughter*, you've been gone a while!".

- More detailed models, instead of having to create 4-5 different models that work with every armor in the game.

- Voice acting being restricted to two voice actors instead of 6 or 8.

- The ability to create main character specific animations.

... ect.

[Ortaya Alevli]

I don't know what the reason behind the race restriction is, but DA2 won't be the first game without an option to choose my character's race. Maybe the story has parts where being an elf or dwarf simply wouldn't fit. We'll have to wait and see.

It's always good to have more customization options in a game, if only for the sake of variety, but if we're stuck to humans in DA2, so be it. It's not like there's enough time left to add other race options and adjust the game accordingly anyway.

[Selene Moonsong]

Okay...



As has been stated by the Devs, Origins was about recruiting an army to face the Darkspawn horde.Your character, from whatever Origins, becomes a Warden who is only one of two surviving Wardens after the fall of Ostagar who must build an army to face the horde and Archdemon, all of which occurs over about a 2-year span. This format did not use VO for the protagonist.



DA II is about a single individual refugee who becomes the hero of Kirkwall and is told over a 10-year period, from the time of the horde invasion, to 10 years after. The DA 2 format uses voice-over for the protagonist (Male or Female).



Economically; if the developers had chosen to allow all races as protagonist (Human, Dwarf, Elf), they would have had to do voice overs for 6 possible protagonist characters and would also have to account for the races as well, meaning multiple dialogue scripts for the individual protagonist based not only on gender, but on race as well.



As I see it, attempting to account for just the basic three race/gender options would be astronomically expensive all the way around, because it would not just be possible choices that would affect events, but racial perspectives as well, which could well complicate development not just for voice overs, but the additional possible effects and outcomes throughout the project.



While I much prefer the ability to play all of the three basic protagonist races, I am interested in seeing how DA II will play out, while hoping for a later follow-up of DAO (a DA: Origins 2 for example) to tie up all the loose ends for our Wardens as an expansion (although that can be complicated since on ending means the ultimate sacrifice).

[Tocquevillain]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Okay...

As has been stated by the Devs, Origins was about recruiting an army to face the Darkspawn horde.Your character, from whatever Origins, becomes a Warden who is only one of two surviving Wardens after the fall of Ostagar who must build an army to face the horde and Archdemon, all of which occurs over about a 2-year span. This format did not use VO for the protagonist.

DA II is about a single individual refugee who becomes the hero of Kirkwall and is told over a 10-year period, from the time of the horde invasion, to 10 years after. The DA 2 format uses voice-over for the protagonist (Male or Female).

Economically; if the developers had chosen to allow all races as protagonist (Human, Dwarf, Elf), they would have had to do voice overs for 6 possible protagonist characters and would also have to account for the races as well, meaning multiple dialogue scripts for the individual protagonist based not only on gender, but on race as well.

As I see it, attempting to account for just the basic three race/gender options would be astronomically expensive all the way around, because it would not just be possible choices that would affect events, but racial perspectives as well, which could well complicate development not just for voice overs, but the additional possible effects and outcomes throughout the project.

While I much prefer the ability to play all of the three basic protagonist races, I am interested in seeing how DA II will play out, while hoping for a later follow-up of DAO (a DA: Origins 2 for example) to tie up all the loose ends for our Wardens as an expansion (although that can be complicated since on ending means the ultimate sacrifice).

I thought they tied everything up for everyone with the text at the end of the game.  Isn't that enough? It was a generic adventure story done great, now we get some real storytelling because they can focus on one character.

[Selene Moonsong]

Tocquevillain wrote...

I thought they tied everything up for everyone with the text at the end of the game.  Isn't that enough? It was a generic adventure story done great, now we get some real storytelling because they can focus on one character.

Actually, no, and the Devs have stated that Morigan's story has not ended for example, and is expected be revisited.

Edit: I view DA: Origins and DA 2 as two separate games, related only by some of the same historical events. Great story-telling can be done in either format.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 14 novembre 2010 - 09:31 .

[Wyndham711]

I think behind the decision to not have origins in DA2 is very much a valid design philosphy, and a great one at that. DAO's point was to introduce the world and do it from multiple points of view. It was a wonderful way of doing it, but by no means should that mold be forcefully applied to sequels. It made sense then, but there's no reason to believe it would make sense now. There are numerous clearly positive effects this more focused style is going to have in terms of storytelling, and I personally can't wait to see them in action!

[Face of Evil]

The single origin fits in with the story they are trying to tell in DA2. Provided that story is good, I have no objection to dispensing with the multiple origins.

[In Exile]

I really dislike other races in games. The thing is, these are never actually non-human. Elves, dwarves, they're all indistinguishable from people. To really create another race, you have to work hard at making them alien and unlike people; just giving us a humanity re-skin is lame. This is why I prefer human-only settings. It removes this whole fantasy race pretense.

[Undead Union]

At least we have more focus on the characters provided...



Male and female Hawke will be able to have much more substance and, thus, much more originality. I think, if Bioware does it right, we'll all have different Hawkes.

[Iramyr]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Tocquevillain wrote...

I thought they tied everything up for everyone with the text at the end of the game.  Isn't that enough? It was a generic adventure story done great, now we get some real storytelling because they can focus on one character.

Actually, no, and the Devs have stated that Morigan's story has not ended for example, and is expected be revisited.

Edit: I view DA: Origins and DA 2 as two separate games, related only by some of the same historical events. Great story-telling can be done in either format.

I agree 100%, but then, why name the game "dragon age 2" then? why not "Dragon age: Hawke Amazing" for example?

I believe that simple change would reduce the anger and hate of some fans.

[Saibh]

Iramyr wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Tocquevillain wrote...

I thought they tied everything up for everyone with the text at the end of the game.  Isn't that enough? It was a generic adventure story done great, now we get some real storytelling because they can focus on one character.

Actually, no, and the Devs have stated that Morigan's story has not ended for example, and is expected be revisited.

Edit: I view DA: Origins and DA 2 as two separate games, related only by some of the same historical events. Great story-telling can be done in either format.

I agree 100%, but then, why name the game "dragon age 2" then? why not "Dragon age: Hawke Amazing" for example?

I believe that simple change would reduce the anger and hate of some fans.

The first wasn't named Dragon Age: The Warden.

[syllogi]

I *prefer* playing a human in role playing games, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the choice to be something else.  DA:O was the first time I really enjoyed playing as a dwarf, and the elves were not generic ethereal awesome folk, which was refreshing.  

If limiting the choice of race to human adds to the story, by allowing the writers to flesh out the character's family and history -- as they appear to be doing in DA2 -- then it's cool by me.  They could have done the same sort of thing with a dwarf or elf, though, and it might have been even more interesting.

[Iramyr]

Saibh wrote...

Iramyr wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Tocquevillain wrote...

I thought they tied everything up for everyone with the text at the end of the game.  Isn't that enough? It was a generic adventure story done great, now we get some real storytelling because they can focus on one character.

Actually, no, and the Devs have stated that Morigan's story has not ended for example, and is expected be revisited.

Edit: I view DA: Origins and DA 2 as two separate games, related only by some of the same historical events. Great story-telling can be done in either format.

I agree 100%, but then, why name the game "dragon age 2" then? why not "Dragon age: Hawke Amazing" for example?

I believe that simple change would reduce the anger and hate of some fans.

The first wasn't named Dragon Age: The Warden.

Coments like this are just sad. That was just a joke.

A lot of enraged fans wont accept Dragon Age 2 as a sequel of origins for differents reasons. Personally I could care less about it but that does not change the fact that a simple change in the title would calm this fans, just saying.

[Apollo Starflare]

As a big Dwarf fan it was initially a big blow for me when I found out, since then I have learnt more about DA2 though and realised that it potentially gives the writers the chance to craft a much more focused and personal story. Looking forward to seeing how it pans out.

Iramyr wrote...

Saibh wrote...

The first wasn't named Dragon Age: The Warden.

Coments like this are just sad. That was just a joke.

A lot of enraged fans wont accept Dragon Age 2 as a sequel of origins for differents reasons. Personally I could care less about it but that does not change the fact that a simple change in the title would calm this fans, just saying.

But... She made a good point. You are suggesting DA2 is named 'Hawke' or somesuch, but if that were the case then Dragon Age Origins should have been called 'Dragon Age: The Warden. The 'Origins' part was always about the origins feature of the game, never about it being the start of a trilogy focusing around one character or something. The writers themselves have said the franchise is based around Thedas and not any one character, as such I have never seen a problem with DA2 having a different playable protagonist. They have shown more than enough examples that they are serious about keeping a continuity between titles with plot strands that get picked up on and such if you ask me.

[In Exile]

Saibh wrote...

The first wasn't named Dragon Age: The Warden.

The first game was just called Dragon Age. Then this idiotic "Origins" moniker was added to it, which led to a lot of back and forth on the old forum.

But Dragon Age was, originally, Dragon Age. Not Origins, not a "A fun romp with the Warden and everyone" and not "The Sten's night out".

Bioware never actually explained why "Origins" was added on either, at least not that I recall. They simply altered the look of the game and the name about 6-8 months before release.



This is what I followed for years.

Then we got this blood splatter nonsense.



Man, I remember all the outrage over the blood splatters, now that I think about it.

Modifié par In Exile, 14 novembre 2010 - 04:21 .

[errant_knight]

I didn't really have a problem with it, but that's mostly because the other changes were so much more horrifying to me. It's all a matter of degree. Hopefully a lot of things return with DA3 that were removed for DA2

[Lord_Valandil]

ZaroktheImmortal wrote...

Yeah, I liked playing as an elf in origins and having the different origin stories. I like having more character options, not less. But hopefully they'll return the option to play as other races in future games.

I hear you. I agree with you, I really loved to be a Dalish, and I was very, very disappointed when it was announced that we have to stick with a human this time.
Maybe future games will allow to choose different races again, or a fixed race which isn't human.

[PsychoBlonde]

It doesn't worry me, and I think I'll prefer it that Hawke is human-only. The world in DA:O felt off to me because of how very little reaction people had to an elven mage tooling around with a Qunari, a walking statue, and an enormous dog. The weirded-out populace factor just was not there. Everyone was so cosmopolitan.