443 réponses à ce sujet

[Boombox]

It's one thing that doesn't really bother me. Sure, it was nice to play as different races but it seems like it's going to be a lot deeper this way and I'm all for that.

[addiction21]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

You do know that that sort of stuff did happen in DA? And now there's zero chance that it'll happen in part 2.

Yes they did happen. They were also few and far between, shallow, and trivial. The only time race selection shined was in the origins and after that it played almost no role in the rest of the adventure. Playing a mage gave a more unique experiance then any race/origin combination IMHO.

If your rational is that since there is no class selection then ya those sort of things can happen. It also means they do not have to spread that sort of flavor interaction across multiple races so it allows then for flesh those encounters out more then it boiling down to "oh look its a dwarf" 

DIfferent strokes for different folks.

[Stick668]

Shadow Wing wrote...

Here an interesting thought, I think almost everyone agrees that the main reasons for having a human-only character was first due to whatever story they have planned for the game would only suit a human not to mentioned it would mean a deeper story since they don't have to plan for other characters

Well, everybody sane agrees. There's still the mysterious crowd of "You are pandering to the custard-lovers! Clever people prefer whipped cream!" 

secondly as someone mentioned, economics play a roll as well since having 6 different characters would mean having to hire 6 different voices however does that mean that it is possible for future DA games to have a elf only or dwarves only protagonist? Do you think Bioware would risk that or would it always be a human-only character from now on?

It's a good question. In one way, I think a lot of people would see having to play a dwarf or an elf as more of an imposition than getting stuck with a human. Humans are the No-Name Brand of fantasy races, after all.

Consider the... well, in tv/movies you'd call it the "POV character". John Crichton, astronaut, goes "What the holy heck is that?" and both he and the viewer gets an answer. Having a recognizable type of character to identify with helps, when the surroundings are unfamiliar. Putting a strange character in the lead role places higher demands on the viewer, or in this case, player. It can be a huuuge kick getting to play an alien or an obscure, plane-crossing race, but it also demands a detailed knowledge of the setting beforehand. (Or, in the case of Planescape: Torment, a particularly patient and inquisitive mindset.)

Quite a few of us would probably not mind being a strange one in a strange land. But it's generally not practical for the purposes of mass culture.

Modifié par Stick668, 16 novembre 2010 - 12:36 .

[Sir JK]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

You do know that that sort of stuff did happen in DA? And now there's zero chance that it'll happen in part 2.

No, It did not happen in DA:O beyond the Origins save for a few throwbacks in dialogue. Make no mistake, I loved DAO and thought what they did have was nice.

But at no point beyond the origin did the race ever have a consequence. A human noble had the exact same Orzammar sequence as a dwarven Noble or a duster. A city elf faced the exact same difficulties in the Denerim as a human noble did. A dalish had no trouble at all convincing the lands meet they were better than Loghain. At no point did your race choice become a hinderance, an obstacle or an advantage.

I want it to be. Constantly.
If it isn't then a fleshed out story with a locked race is more preferable.

[Xewaka]

Sir JK wrote...

But at no point beyond the origin did the race ever have a consequence. A human noble had the exact same Orzammar sequence as a dwarven Noble or a duster.

I disagree, at least on the duster part. Playing both Duster rogue and Human warrior to completion, the differences in Orzammar are notable. Not game-shaking, but they do make ripples.

[DAO - Grey Warden]

  "Consider the... well, in tv/movies you'd call it the "POV character". John Crichton, astronaut, goes "What the holy heck is that?"
and both he and the viewer gets an answer. Having a recognizable type
of character to identify with helps, when the surroundings are
unfamiliar. Putting a strange character in the lead role places higher
demands on the viewer, or in this case, player. It can be a huuuge kick
getting to play an alien or an obscure, plane-crossing race, but it
also demands a detailed knowledge of the setting beforehand. (Or, in the case of Planescape: Torment, a particularly patient and inquisitive mindset.)

Quite a few of us
would probably not mind being a strange one in a strange land. But it's
generally not practical for the purposes of mass culture."



Very well sad...

Modifié par DAO - Grey Warden, 16 novembre 2010 - 01:21 .

[Sir JK]

Xewaka wrote...

I disagree, at least on the duster part. Playing both Duster rogue and Human warrior to completion, the differences in Orzammar are notable. Not game-shaking, but they do make ripples.

Okay, Fair enough. I guess I did make a bit too absolute a statement. There are some differences, but overall the changes between every one of them is fairly small.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I want the race choice to be a narrative focus. I want a profoundly different narrative if I am a human, an elf or a dwarf. I want it to truly affect things. Not just one or two things, but in just about every encounter (except where it makes sense that it doesn't).

If you are a city elf, then you should be a second class citzen. Rich people will expect you to be a thief, soldiers expecting you to be a coward, authorities you to be a servant. That many merchants refuse to deal with you, That major npc direct themselves to your human or dwarven partymembers as the leaders of the party (and then being surprised when being told that the elf is).
I'd also want that the story takes on themes that are very central to elves. Such as home, community, prejudice and stuff like that.

Same thing for dwarves. That humans would treat you differently, as if you're a strange thing. Constantly bothering you about questions about your home, assuming incorrect things. Going to great pains to acquire one of those absolutely horrific dwarven ales for your benefit  at feats(even if you'd prefer a wine).
That the game takes on themes of caste, duty, family and being alien.

Basically that the entire game reacts to your race choice. Not just a few bits here and there.
If a game does that I'll support race choices forever, if it doesn't I support that with adds the most to the narrative.

[Ziggeh]

Sir JK wrote...

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I want the race choice to be a narrative focus. I want a profoundly different narrative if I am a human, an elf or a dwarf. I want it to truly affect things. Not just one or two things, but in just about every encounter (except where it makes sense that it doesn't).

The concession in Origins is that people recognise that you're a Grey Warden, and treat you as such.  I think there are a few cases where you explain that fact, but doing it in every conversation would become a bit dull.

But beyond that I agree with your point, if it doesn't effect how you're seen I'm not sure what the purpose is. I think it would make things even more complex though, it would be problematic if for example merchants refused to trade with you, despite the fact that you have a respected human noble standing a few feet behind you.

[maxernst]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Sir JK wrote...

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I want the race choice to be a narrative focus. I want a profoundly different narrative if I am a human, an elf or a dwarf. I want it to truly affect things. Not just one or two things, but in just about every encounter (except where it makes sense that it doesn't).

The concession in Origins is that people recognise that you're a Grey Warden, and treat you as such.  I think there are a few cases where you explain that fact, but doing it in every conversation would become a bit dull.

But beyond that I agree with your point, if it doesn't effect how you're seen I'm not sure what the purpose is. I think it would make things even more complex though, it would be problematic if for example merchants refused to trade with you, despite the fact that you have a respected human noble standing a few feet behind you.

Yes, I think that the fact that you're a Grey Warden sort of trumps your origins in a lot of ways...people probably fear you too much to refuse to trade with you or harass you.  I mean, would you really want to ****** off a group of heavily armed people?  I felt I got enough flack in my elf playthrough...although I was also a woman and a mage, which meant I probably hit every disrespectful conversation in the game.

What this meant that it was easier to accommodate a variety of player origins when the player was a Warden.  But as I commented before, that meant forcing you to become a Warden, and no matter what your character's origins or personality, defeating the Blight was every PC's objective.  I'm hoping that maybe as a tradeoff for being human, Hawke will have a little more flexibility as to his path through the game.  We'll see.

[dragonboy12]

I'm not to against the idea of just having the main character as a human. It could in some ways give more customisation. Rather than have several origin options for different races, which range from great to poor, they could make say 3 high quality options that also offer more customisation of the character. So perhaps in a way (if this makes sense) while your character is ultimately human in body, he can be more akin to an elf or dwarf if you really want him to be.



Basically what I'm trying to say is, although there is only one choice of race, there may well be more customisation within the rest of the game as a result, allowing you to shape your character differently each time.

[red pies]

yeah sometimes its better to be limited to a human.

it wouldnt work well in mass effect if the 1st human spectre was a turian

[Angarma]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Okay...

As has been stated by the Devs, Origins was about recruiting an army to face the Darkspawn horde.Your character, from whatever Origins, becomes a Warden who is only one of two surviving Wardens after the fall of Ostagar who must build an army to face the horde and Archdemon, all of which occurs over about a 2-year span. This format did not use VO for the protagonist.

DA II is about a single individual refugee who becomes the hero of Kirkwall and is told over a 10-year period, from the time of the horde invasion, to 10 years after. The DA 2 format uses voice-over for the protagonist (Male or Female).

Economically; if the developers had chosen to allow all races as protagonist (Human, Dwarf, Elf), they would have had to do voice overs for 6 possible protagonist characters and would also have to account for the races as well, meaning multiple dialogue scripts for the individual protagonist based not only on gender, but on race as well.

Hmph. You could use anyones voice on a dwarf, a elf and a human and it wouldn't sound particularly weird.
The multiple dialogue script was done in npc responses in Origins. Bad excuses, bad excuses. <_<

As I see it, attempting to account for just the basic three race/gender options would be astronomically expensive all the way around, because it would not just be possible choices that would affect events, but racial perspectives as well, which could well complicate development not just for voice overs, but the additional possible effects and outcomes throughout the project.

While I much prefer the ability to play all of the three basic protagonist races, I am interested in seeing how DA II will play out, while hoping for a later follow-up of DAO (a DA: Origins 2 for example) to tie up all the loose ends for our Wardens as an expansion (although that can be complicated since on ending means the ultimate sacrifice).

What has Bioware gone cheap all of a sudden? yet again I'll bring up Dragon Age : Origins.
Say you are a Dalish Elf Warden and you have a decision in the landsmeet questline:
You can - a) kill the mage spare the mage c) let the mage sacrifice other elves to give you more power.

Being an elf has a small affect (kinship and all), whether or not you are good / evil also has an a affect.
Does the quest spiral into a whole new direction because you are an elf? absolutely not.

Sometimes I think Bioware should never have implemented Origins into the first Dragon Age game.
Instead you would just have a default Grey Warden origin arriving at Ostagar as an Human / Dwarf / Elf.
Duncan would tell you about your races history and background, which would free up alot of development time.
You being a dwarf would make as much difference as Commander Shepard being a Spacer in Mass Effect.

Anyway I'm waiting for Bioware to give me a good dwarven reason for this lack of races in DA2.
Yes I said "a good dwarven reason" meaning "a hardy and sturdy reason" not "falls slop onto the ground."
If you have read thus far then I applaud you sir, you have done what many cannot! damn filthy skimmers.

[Ziggeh]

dragonboy12 wrote...

Basically what I'm trying to say is, although there is only one choice of race, there may well be more customisation within the rest of the game as a result, allowing you to shape your character differently each time.

I'm hoping so. The complexity of the consequences to your decisions increases fairly rapidly, I'd hate to think of the number of possibly unique endings at the end of origins.

I doubt it's as simple as a straightforward trade, but I'd be much happier with more active,  in narrative decisions than looking a bit elfy throughout.

[Ziggeh]

Dodok wrote...
Anyway I'm waiting for Bioware to give me a good dwarven reason for this lack of races in DA2.
Yes I said "a good dwarven reason" meaning "a hardy and sturdy reason" not "falls slop onto the ground."

I doubt there is a single reason. There are probably many. And this thread covers most of them, at one point or another.

[Stanley Woo]

Dodok wrote...
Anyway I'm waiting for Bioware to give me a good dwarven reason for this lack of races in DA2.

A wizard did it.

[Wulfram]

Wizards are extremely undwarven. If a Paragon did it, that would be good dwarven reason.

[Doveberry]

I don't mind it. I do prefer playing as an elf, but I can see how this will add some immersion to the game. I will happily sacrifice the option of playing as other races if it means that my character will be given a real voice, and that I won't just be referred to as "Warden". At least people in DA2 will know my character's last name. I think it's a fair tradeoff.

[Davasar]

It is sheer conjecture to say that just because the game has one origin story that the game will have a deeper story, just as it is sheer conjecture to say that the game will suck because it isn't Origins 2.



They are separate games, hardly connected.



With the 2 year release time, the game WILL be shorter then Origins guys.



This doesn't scream super high quality by any stretch from a logic stand point (shorter development time usually means a shorter/weaker story and that would be a safe bet)



It could be a decent game. It's just not something that was targeted to the people that enjoyed the style of Origins (like myself).

[Stick668]

Dodok wrote...
Anyway I'm waiting for Bioware to give me a good dwarven reason for this lack of races in DA2.
Yes I said "a good dwarven reason" meaning "a hardy and sturdy reason" not "falls slop onto the ground."

ziggehunderslash wrote...
I doubt there is a single reason. There are probably many. And this thread covers most of them, at one point or another.

Dodok wrote...
damn filthy skimmers.

Editorial services provided free of charge.

Modifié par Stick668, 16 novembre 2010 - 05:46 .

[Angarma]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Dodok wrote...
Anyway I'm waiting for Bioware to give me a good dwarven reason for this lack of races in DA2.

A wizard did it.

Oh a wizard did it? a wizard just happened to waltzed up into the Edmonton studio,
pass security by confusing the guard with a playful riddle, walked directly to the drawing board by passing many slave pens called "cubicles", rubbed out anything on the board, got that little red board marker pen and started to write:
"NO ORIGINS. NO RACES. NEW HERO."

The wizard then proceeded to drink a single sip of coffee from someone's mug, to the displeasement of his viewers.
From this wizard's robe was a wand withdrawn with sharp but deadly accuracy, twice it was waved and the wizard was teleported away. After this.. a sudden gathering of writers came to the white board, they shouted "absolutely genius!"


This story might be understandable to the common mage but dwarf? sounds like something that came from a bronto's behind.
So I will still be waiting for that good dwarven reason.

Modifié par Dodok, 16 novembre 2010 - 05:49 .

[Stick668]

I am reminded of the wisdom of the old dwarven bard Pol Simun, who once sang "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".

[Ziggeh]

Davasar wrote...

It is sheer conjecture to say that just because the game has one origin story that the game will have a deeper story, just as it is sheer conjecture to say that the game will suck because it isn't Origins 2.

Entirely true. It does however allow for a "deeper" (though one could argue the term, DA2 has a smaller subect, as in: not an entire country) story, and given that his family are a critical part of it, we can definitely say it will be a more personal one. Then there's the framed narrative and 10 year span, of course.

So while it is clearly speculation, it is well grounded speculation, which the other thing isn't.

[AlanC9]

Davasar wrote...


It could be a decent game. It's just not something that was targeted to the people that enjoyed the style of Origins (like myself).

You mean people that liked certain things about Origins. Everything I liked about DAO is still in there as far as I can tell.

But yes, a sequel will not satisfy every fan of the first game.

Modifié par AlanC9, 16 novembre 2010 - 06:33 .

[Ortaya Alevli]

Six pages and still no sensible reason why being "limited to being human" would make this game worse. Dragon Age 2 might be a good or bad game, but racial restriction wouldn't be the cause either way. Just like real life. Real life sucks, but our being humans have nothing to do with it.

Then again, I'm yet to hear why some people think voiceover is the cause of, or one of the factors causing, the racial restriction in DA2. All we're getting is ambiguous paraphrases of "I don't wanna be stuck with human because I don't want to." This is no Origins, and BioWare seems to have decided to tell a human's story this time.

And for those who wish DA2 to be an exact Origins clone -there seem to be quite a few of them-, If you want to play the same game with each sequel, you're free to throw your money at FIFA series every year.

[Ziggeh]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Then again, I'm yet to hear why some people think voiceover is the cause of, or one of the factors causing, the racial restriction in DA2.

Oh, I think its's contributory. You could get away with the same voice across three races, but it would be far from ideal.

And you just know people would have complained about it.