608 réponses à ce sujet

[StingingVelvet]

Veex wrote...

I'm not sure I'd consider the additions to New Vegas more complex, with the exception of the DT system perhaps. Hardcore mode adds a bit of depth that is otherwise absent but certainly isn't more difficult in my opinion, simply more time consuming.

I think the crux of the issue for many "old school" gamers is that streamlining games often means you get less mileage out of the title in the long run. No matter how mundane a task is, as long as it adds some additional length to a playthrough many people will enjoy it.

Quite the opposite really, I don't like pointless filler. The reason the added complexity was good was because it made the game more fun... choices mattered, which gun you used mattered, stats mattered more... that's all fun to me, not time consuming.  Hardcore mode I grant you is more about adding tasks than anything, but I think it was mainly for roleplayers, so they could feel like they need to eat and drink, which makes them feel more immersed in the game world.  I mostly only played on hardcore so the companions could die.

[Skilled Seeker]

lol what NV sold more than ME2? BS

[December Man]

Wyndham711 wrote...
People just love the open world.

Kind of ironic, since NV is full of invisible walls.

[FedericoV]

Saibh wrote...

Wyndham711 wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Wyndham711 wrote...

New Vegas also sold huge amounts, despite its horrendously buggy state, dated graphics, and expansion packy nature. Regardless, it sold much more than something like DA:O or Mass Effect 2. To me it just tells that the Bethesda way of RPG is significantly more appealing to the masses than the Bioware one. People just love the open world.

Well...no. Not exactly. It sold less than ME2. And DAO, I think, sold more, if only for being available on the PS3. Not to mention Awakening's sales can be considered in, as well.

So far, at least. The game hasn't been out that long.

It already surpassed sales of 5 million. At least I haven't heard of such sales with BioWare's franchises. What were the sales figures of DAO or ME2, then?

Huh. Really? Last I heard, it was hovering a bit over two million. In that case, yeah, it outsold DAO or ME2.

5 millions shipped copies. Not actual sales.

[Wyndham711]

Saibh wrote...

Wyndham711 wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Wyndham711 wrote...

New Vegas also sold huge amounts, despite its horrendously buggy state, dated graphics, and expansion packy nature. Regardless, it sold much more than something like DA:O or Mass Effect 2. To me it just tells that the Bethesda way of RPG is significantly more appealing to the masses than the Bioware one. People just love the open world.

Well...no. Not exactly. It sold less than ME2. And DAO, I think, sold more, if only for being available on the PS3. Not to mention Awakening's sales can be considered in, as well.

So far, at least. The game hasn't been out that long.

It already surpassed sales of 5 million. At least I haven't heard of such sales with BioWare's franchises. What were the sales figures of DAO or ME2, then?

Huh. Really? Last I heard, it was hovering a bit over two million. In that case, yeah, it outsold DAO or ME2.

Indeed. And I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers soared even higher given that Obisidian has been patching the game quite vigorously. The Bethesda style is clearly the more financially succesful approach at creating a single player RPG, especially since they can rehash basically the same outdated graphics and just create new content on top of the established system, which is something even the Origins team didn't dare to do.

[Ziggeh]

Veex wrote...

I
think the crux of the issue for many "old school" gamers is that
streamlining games often means you get less mileage out of the title in
the long run. No matter how mundane a task is, as long as it adds some
additional length to a playthrough many people will enjoy it.

That's right. As misplaced as mining was in ME2, or Mako driving in ME1, people spent a whole lot of time doing it.

Trudging to a vendor to sell him your new found wealth in slightly used arms and armour is not a good resource system, it is needless mundane complexity.

[Lord_Valandil]

Oh please, no.

I don't want Bethesda on my Bioware.

[Skilled Seeker]

StingingVelvet wrote...

Veex wrote...

I'm not sure I'd consider the additions to New Vegas more complex, with the exception of the DT system perhaps. Hardcore mode adds a bit of depth that is otherwise absent but certainly isn't more difficult in my opinion, simply more time consuming.

I think the crux of the issue for many "old school" gamers is that streamlining games often means you get less mileage out of the title in the long run. No matter how mundane a task is, as long as it adds some additional length to a playthrough many people will enjoy it.

Quite the opposite really, I don't like pointless filler. The reason the added complexity was good was because it made the game more fun... choices mattered, which gun you used mattered, stats mattered more... that's all fun to me, not time consuming.  Hardcore mode I grant you is more about adding tasks than anything, but I think it was mainly for roleplayers, so they could feel like they need to eat and drink, which makes them feel more immersed in the game world.  I mostly only played on hardcore so the companions could die.

You do realise which gun you use matters more in ME2 than ME1. What I mean is in ME1 you simply pick the gun with the best stats. In ME2 each weapon is unique and they all have strengths and weaknesses such as ammo capacity, range, spread, damage, accuracy, recoil, manual, auto, semi auto etc. That is much more complex than ME1's system.

[Bobad]

One crucial thing BioWare could learn from New Vegas, don't release a game with bugs and glitches so bad they can make the game unplayable and corrupted saves that render 70+ hour games useless.

[Anakin1000]

AP and F:NV are not-linear great games with really involving moral choices - with no third-good-ultimate-good option.

OE fails their games on bugs and tech issues. BW Games are much more better in Gameplay ;]

But Obsidian is superior in Storytelling. Writing in AP super-pass ME2 in every aspect - even emails were better and I really red all of them ;]

[Brockololly]

Wyndham711 wrote...
Indeed. And I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers soared even higher given that Obisidian has been patching the game quite vigorously. The Bethesda style is clearly the more financially succesful approach at creating a single player RPG, especially since they can rehash basically the same outdated graphics and just create new content on top of the established system, which is something even the Origins team didn't dare to do.

Yeah, I heard its shipped 5 million or something. But it makes me wish that BioWare would have taken this sort of approach or the BG2 style approach for DA2 where they just make small changes to the tech and just start out making tons more content and tweaks, not overhauling the whole thing.

[GreenSoda]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

lol what NV sold more than ME2? BS

It's not that far off actually:

ME2 (up to now): ca. 2.5 million across all platforms
F:NV (after only 2 weeks): ca. 2.4 million across all platforms (and 5 million shipped to retailers).

It's all "guesstimates" of course since NPD doesn't release anything offical anymore and PC digital sales are -as always- not considered.

Still you don't need to be a prophet to predict that F:NV will easily outsell ME2 (or DA:O for that matter).

[In Exile]

I couldn't get into New Vegas. It just had all of the features I can't stand in an RPG. A dead, empty protagonist with no connection to the world. No meaningful companions to create a sense of teamwork or camaraderie. Fetch quests galore, and a big sandbox open world game with significant focuses on exploration.

[Ziggeh]

Brockololly wrote...

Yeah, I heard its shipped 5 million or something. But it makes me wish that BioWare would have taken this sort of approach or the BG2 style approach for DA2 where they just make small changes to the tech and just start out making tons more content and tweaks, not overhauling the whole thing.

Origins had some fairly clear problems, there are only a couple of instances were the changes they're making aren't created as a solution.

I'm actually struggling to think of many issues with Fallout 3 that weren't technical, and I think it's fair to say they didn't do a spectacular job at addressing those.

edit: aside from those In Exile just mentioned, but those are stylistic concerns.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 14 novembre 2010 - 04:35 .

[Ulous]

The people who are pointing out FNV's sales what is your point? If you are saying that it has sold so much because it is RPG classic then I believe you are wrong, the kind of people that played Fallout 3 and who are now playing FNV are the same people that usually wouldn't touch an RPG with a ten foot pole, add on top of that it attracts RPG fans as well then you have a huge selling game, can't people see that is what Bioware are doing with DA2? Appealing to the RPG fans as well as those who possibly wouldn't bother? That's the way i see it anyway.

Modifié par Ulous, 14 novembre 2010 - 04:37 .

[Gavinthelocust]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Oh please, no.
I don't want Bethesda on my Bioware.

Obsidian made NW2, with that link Bethesda will slink into Bioware and destroy it from the inside so there could be only be ONE extremely talented WRPG maker in the world and they will decimate the very fabric of fantasy and science fiction as we know it!

Or it could mean nothing at all, either one.

[Ulous]

DP*

Modifié par Ulous, 14 novembre 2010 - 04:37 .

[Luigitornado]

Looks like the same argument wrapped in different paper. How interesting :\\

[Captain Iglo]

Take away the ability of Fps/third person shooting mechanics from fallout 3/Vegas and you would have to erase about two-thirds of the sales of Fallout 3/ Vegas.

Modifié par Captain Iglo, 14 novembre 2010 - 04:40 .

[Ulous]

Captain Iglo wrote...

Take away the ability of Fps/third person shooting mechanics from fallout 3/Vegas and you would have to erase about two-thirds of the sales of Fallout 3/ Vegas.

Exactly, even most the trailers leading up to both games releases focused on that part more than anything else.

[Ziggeh]

Captain Iglo wrote...

Take away the ability of Fps/third person shooting mechanics from fallout 3 and you would have to erase about two-thirds of the sales of Fallout 3 or Vegas.

Indeed. While I understand the OPs point (complexity can be good), the two games aren't very comparable, and sales aren't a good indication of anything due to the differences.

[Luigitornado]

Captain Iglo wrote...

Take away the ability of Fps/third person shooting mechanics from fallout 3/Vegas and you would have to erase about two-thirds of the sales of Fallout 3/ Vegas.

Pretty much.

[Luigitornado]

I say we make The Sims in first person and add gun play.

[StingingVelvet]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

You do realise which gun you use matters more in ME2 than ME1. What I mean is in ME1 you simply pick the gun with the best stats. In ME2 each weapon is unique and they all have strengths and weaknesses such as ammo capacity, range, spread, damage, accuracy, recoil, manual, auto, semi auto etc. That is much more complex than ME1's system.

It didn't matter which gun you used though, you can kill everything with a pistol in ME2.  Yes, some guns are better against armor than others and stuff like that, but there is no real weight to that idea, you can still force anything to kill anything.  In New Vegas you literally can't kill a Deathclaw with a standard pistol, even at max level.

[MJRick]

No amount of awsome rpg elements can fix the glitches in that game. Had to star two 20 hour+ playthroughs and thats not cool.