608 réponses à ce sujet

[slumlord722]

Brockololly wrote...


I think the New Vegas comparison has more to do with the increased customization bits with the PC and the emphasis on showcasing stat based abilities and perks rather than trying to brush all of the numbers under the rug.

This, pretty much.

[Fraevar]

David Gaider wrote...

I just find it heartening that so many people say a game where you don't play the same character as the previous game, and also play a human only with a single origin is still capable of depth. Who'd have thunk it?

Capable of depth? Of course it is, but it's still worrying to me that in the only other franchise in which BioWare have done so, the team made the protagonist into a total brick
I'm not knocking you or your team, David but I won't deny that I am nervous, simply because I only have ME2 to go on and I didn't much care for what they did to Shepard there(Or I should say what they didn't do to Shepard, which was make him an actual believable character).

[StingingVelvet]

Brockololly wrote...

I think the New Vegas comparison has more to do with the increased customization bits with the PC and the emphasis on showcasing stat based abilities and perks rather than trying to brush all of the numbers under the rug. And stuff like hardcore mode for those that want it. And then NV has the whole silent PC thing going for it...so...

Well I think New Vegas is mainly getting credit in this case for simply taking Fallout 3 and adding more depth to it.  Whether Fallout 3 was complex already or dumb as hell isn't really the point, they took a successful mainstream game and added more depth and complexity to it and continued to find mainstream success.

So the question then becomes does that matter?  Is it a fluke or is it indicative that we are at a place now where more depth and complexity can be good things, within reason, and therefore Dragon Age 2 might benefit or suffer on the same scale.

[naledgeborn]

David Gaider wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote...
It's not about comparing the two games at all really, it is about adding depth versus removing it and the general feelings among fans and reviewers at the moment about it.

I just find it heartening that so many people say a game where you don't play the same character as the previous game, and also play a human only with a single origin is still capable of depth. Who'd have thunk it?

I mean no disrespect when I say this Mr. Gaider but patting yourself on the back for spear-heading the creation of a phenomenal game over the course of 5 years will not make it's sequel any better. And though I admit I will probably pick up DA2, by what I've seen so far I'm unimpressed. Like the Warden, BW is not here to impress me but to make a quality game. I hope that holds true.

[upsettingshorts]

Brockololly wrote...
And then NV has the whole silent PC thing going for against it...so...

[Meltemph]

 

I think the New Vegas comparison has more to do with the increased customization bits with the PC and the emphasis on showcasing stat based abilities and perks rather than trying to brush all of the numbers under the rug. And stuff like hardcore mode for those that want it.

You mean like WoW(Did not realize wow was considered for the harcore)?  I didn't realize showing stats was for the hardcore, good to know, also, I didnt know DA2 was "brushing stats under the rug".  Another thing that is good to know.  

I'm pretty sure everyone on Gods creation knows that showing stats is not a bad thing, anymore.

[Dave of Canada]

Brockololly wrote...

I think the New Vegas comparison has more to do with the increased customization bits with the PC and the emphasis on showcasing stat based abilities and perks rather than trying to brush all of the numbers under the rug. And stuff like hardcore mode for those that want it. And then NV has the whole silent PC thing going for it...so...

It also has no personal involvement with the Courier, has no character driven storyline and nobody actually knows your character for who he is except for the blank slate mercenary that you are.

[StingingVelvet]

Dave of Canada wrote...

It also has no personal involvement with the Courier, has no character driven storyline and nobody actually knows your character for who he is except for the blank slate mercenary that you are.

Indeed, they are very different core concepts really, comparing the games directly other than to illustrate differences is pretty silly.

Bioware have always made games with a story focus and a linear core design, I would expect nothing less and I think that is just as enjoyable, albeit in a different way, as the more open RPGs.

[David Gaider]

naledgeborn wrote...
I mean no disrespect when I say this Mr. Gaider but patting yourself on the back for spear-heading the creation of a phenomenal game over the course of 5 years will not make it's sequel any better.

And where did I say this?  Where did I even imply this?

All I meant was that some people seem to be focusing only on what they see as lost or removed, rather than what might still be there, as if the loss of features they liked was the only thing that mattered and couldn't also have some good trade-offs. Not that I expect everyone to like them, but then not everyone likes FO:NV either I'm sure.

But whatever. Clearly this is not a conversation to be having with you people. I'll leave you to your speculation.

[Bullets McDeath]

YOU PEOPLE?!?! Operation Righteous Indignation is... GO!

[hexaligned]

Meltemph wrote...

 

I think the New Vegas comparison has more to do with the increased customization bits with the PC and the emphasis on showcasing stat based abilities and perks rather than trying to brush all of the numbers under the rug. And stuff like hardcore mode for those that want it.

You mean like WoW(Did not realize wow was considered for the harcore)?  I didn't realize showing stats was for the hardcore, good to know, also, I didnt know DA2 was "brushing stats under the rug".  Another thing that is good to know.  

I'm pretty sure everyone on Gods creation knows that showing stats is not a bad thing, anymore.

Well endgame raiding, where number crunching actually mattered  (used) to be for the hardcore, yes.  You don't even have to look at the screen in wow to get to level cap or run dungeons anymore, or at least you didn't up till TOC in the latest expansion (which is where I got bored and stopped raiding and unsubbed.... again)  Back in Vanilla casual 4 hour a week gamers were not clearing raid content (besides maybe getting carried through a couple MC bosses once in awhile)

Slightly more ontopic (or at least relevant to the topic):  Blizz has taken plenty of flak for how raiding got handled in Wrath.  How much them making it easier to do affected subs I don't know, but they certainly are taking the game back to a more Vanilla raiding philosophy if Cata goes live with the current beta builds in place.

Modifié par relhart, 14 novembre 2010 - 09:16 .

[David Gaider]

outlaworacle wrote...
YOU PEOPLE?!?! Operation Righteous Indignation is... GO!

I'm neither righteous or indignant. I'm tired, and it's Sunday... and having a conversation where multiple people are going to twist my words to suit their own agenda is... well, that's a Monday conversation. Maybe a Tuesday.

Either way, my being here is not productive, and it's a good conversation. I suggest you continue it.

[Brockololly]

David Gaider wrote...

outlaworacle wrote...
YOU PEOPLE?!?! Operation Righteous Indignation is... GO!

I'm neither righteous or indignant. I'm tired, and it's Sunday... and having a conversation where multiple people are going to twist my words to suit their own agenda is... well, that's a Monday conversation. Maybe a Tuesday.

Either way, my being here is not productive, and it's a good conversation. I suggest you continue it.

Huh?! What do you mean "you people?"

[MerinTB]

In Exile wrote...
I couldn't get into New Vegas. It just had all of the features I can't stand in an RPG. A dead, empty protagonist with no connection to the world. No meaningful companions to create a sense of teamwork or camaraderie. Fetch quests galore, and a big sandbox open world game with significant focuses on exploration.

Wow.  Veronica is aweomse.  I don't know what game you played.

And the protagonist is what YOU make him.  Mine is awesome - when people ask me (and many do) what kind of character I'm playing or what I'm doing with my NV character, I say simply "he's Danny Ocean."

I have plenty of teamwork with my crew (granted, the Fallout 3 engine, even with Obsidian tweaks, is not meant for tactical team combat at all, but coming FROM Fallout 3 (and Elder Scrolls games) I didn't expect otherwise).

I really did like Fallout 3, for what it was.  A huge improvement, IMO, from how the Elder Scrolls games played for me (could VATS have made that much difference?)

New Vegas, however, is rapidly becoming one of my favorite games ever.

[upsettingshorts]

Brockololly wrote...
Huh?! What do you mean "you people?"

What do you mean "you people?!"

As far as New Vegas goes, I liked it but I'm takin' a break for the patches and mods to catch up and fix all the little annoyances that one runs into over a comprehensive playthrough .

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 14 novembre 2010 - 09:00 .

[slimgrin]

David Gaider wrote...

outlaworacle wrote...
YOU PEOPLE?!?! Operation Righteous Indignation is... GO!

I'm neither righteous or indignant. I'm tired, and it's Sunday... and having a conversation where multiple people are going to twist my words to suit their own agenda is... well, that's a Monday conversation. Maybe a Tuesday.

Either way, my being here is not productive, and it's a good conversation. I suggest you continue it.

The glass is always half full with you.

[Bullets McDeath]

David Gaider wrote...

outlaworacle wrote...
YOU PEOPLE?!?! Operation Righteous Indignation is... GO!

I'm neither righteous or indignant. I'm tired, and it's Sunday... and having a conversation where multiple people are going to twist my words to suit their own agenda is... well, that's a Monday conversation. Maybe a Tuesday.

Either way, my being here is not productive, and it's a good conversation. I suggest you continue it.

David I actually meant I was going to initiate Operation Righteous Idignation in response to the "you people" remark, perhaps it is just me, I always seem to get people trying to blow up my house whenever I whip out "you people".

At least I think that's it. It makes the most sense. I mean, it's either that or United States senators have NO sense of humour when it comes to erotic death threats, and those ATF jackets on the hooligans currently running maneuvers on my front lawn are not from the Army Surplus store.

[MerinTB]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Obsidian, when forced to create stuff for themselves, is just... bad.



I liked Alpha Protocol a lot more than people give it credit for, however I can't sit here and say with a straight face that the gameplay isn't broken beyond repair.

I loved Alpha Protocol and I'm not a fan of the spy genre, nor modern-setting combat games.  The fact that I loved Alpha Protocol despite those set backs is testament to how good it was.

I can't speak to all the bugs everyone else hits.  Alpha Protocol had a slowness issue for me when I started playing it - which was fixed by a video card upgrade (my video card was 3 years old, and when I bought it it was a 2 year old model, so...) so, whatever.

I CAN and WILL with a straight face say that Alpha Protocol, IMO, deserves far more recognition than it got.

[JConst]

Brockololly wrote...
Huh?! What do you mean "you people?"

You writers are all racist!

[MerinTB]

Meltemph wrote...

It's not about whether you prefer the more guided and cinematic Bioware style or the more open Betheda style, it's about adding versus removing depth.

What "depth" are you talking about? FONV plays near identical to FO3.

SO disagree. <_<

[ErichHartmann]

Amazing how quickly some are at justifying the flaws of other RPGs while crucifying BioWare for their decisions.

[MerinTB]

David Gaider wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote...
It's not about comparing the two games at all really, it is about adding depth versus removing it and the general feelings among fans and reviewers at the moment about it.

I just find it heartening that so many people say a game where you don't play the same character as the previous game, and also play a human only with a single origin is still capable of depth. Who'd have thunk it?

Because in Fallout 3 you could be a super mutant or a ghoul or a robot, and now in New Vegas you can't be.
I see the comparison.

Oh, wait, no... no I don't.

And "you were a courier" is entirely a set origin, you're right.  You can't possibly go from that and play as if you had, I dunno, come from a Vault, come from out west, come from the east, been part of a tribe... before being a courier.  That's all set in stone -

oh, wait, again, the comparison fails.

OH!

I get it.  That's a snarky comment mixing together some varied complaints that varied people have about what they are worried about for DA2.

Combining the "losing choice from DA:O to DA2" people with the "I don't get to continue my Warden in from DA:O in DA2" crowd, as if they are more or less the same people.

NOW I get it.

[upsettingshorts]

The Courier has no ingame narrative beyond revenge, and he doesn't even really need to take that. A sandbox game like FONV sacrifices a story of any substance for the opportunity to invent your own.

Bioware games and games like Fallout and Oblivion are fundamentally different and most comparisons are going to be flawed.

Personally, I like them both for what they are.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 14 novembre 2010 - 09:18 .

[Bryy_Miller]

December Man wrote...

Wyndham711 wrote...
People just love the open world.

Kind of ironic, since NV is full of invisible walls.

Seriously. Not being able to go in one direction while I'm nowhere near the game border is lame.

[Apollo Starflare]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Amazing how quickly some are at justifying the flaws of other RPGs while crucifying BioWare for their decisions.

Yeah I hear you.

Sometimes it doesn't feel like I'm on the Bioware forums to be honest, Bethesda and CD Projekt get a lot of love around here, despite at times displaying similar (if not identical) issues to the ones people take such great offence at or nitpick to death when it's Bioware. Maybe it's a compliment, everyone just expects Bioware games to be absolutely perfect for every single gamer who wants to play one of their games? I have no idea.