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[RGC_Ines]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I wager that ME3 will include an epic space battle. However, it will probably just be a distraction while Shep & Co. go on a stealth mission or something to deliver the super-fancy-top-secret Reaper countermeasure.

Well It could be great to see an epic space battle at last at the end of ME3. I was so proud about my Normandy and Alliance Fleet at the end of ME1 and it;s my fav moment in this game. And at the end of Mass Effect Trilogy I want to feel it again about my Sheppard and her allies such a Krogans, Rachni, Gethes, Alliance, Migrant Fleet and crew fighting together against the Reapers..

[Talogrungi]

luakel wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

atheelogos wrote...
"How long ago this activation should have occurred is unclear" It was about 2,000 years. Thats when the Rachni Wars started. Sovereign instigated it so he/she/they could get back to the citadel and take control.

If Sovereign instigated the Rachni Wars, it would know the location of the Mu Relay. Sovereign didn't know the location of the Mu Relay. Hence, Sovereign did not instigate the Rachni Wars.

That actually makes perfect sense, which kind of worries me because I saved the queen in all my playthroughs... that asari the queen sends in ME2 mentions the Reapers pretty explicitly as being the reason the rachni fought in the first place. It could just be a blatant lie, if Sovereign had no connection to the rachni, but that's a rather heavy-handed way of making the renegade choice explicitly right (if the queen's lying about that, she has little reason to be truthful about helping Shepard). Maybe another Reaper besides Sovereign was inciting the Rachni? It was 2000 years ago, after all. Or maybe Sovereign was only controlling the rachni, not reading their thoughts about where each relay was. And if that "sour yellow note" silencing the queens wasn't a Reaper, what was it? Just the krogan killing all of them off?

Dunno how accurate the Wiki is, but:

"The Mu Relay  was lost four thousand years ago. It was pushed out of its orbit when a nearby star went supernova, but wasn't damaged."

"The nebula that enveloped the relay was located in rachni-controlled space. Over centuries, the rachni patiently searched for the relay"

Could that not mean that the Reapers influenced the mobilization of the Rachni in an attempt to to locate the Mu Relay, but were unable to get the location from the Rachni prior to them being wiped out by the Krogan?

Modifié par Talogrungi, 22 novembre 2010 - 09:24 .

[luakel]

Talogrungi wrote...

Dunno how accurate the Wiki is, but:

"The Mu Relay  was lost four thousand years ago. It was pushed out of its orbit when a nearby star went supernova, but wasn't damaged."

"The nebula that enveloped the relay was located in rachni-controlled space. Over centuries, the rachni patiently searched for the relay"

Could that not mean that the Reapers influenced the mobilization of the Rachni in an attempt to to locate the Mu Relay, but were unable to get the location from the Rachni prior to them being wiped out by the Krogan?

Hm, but the Rachni queen had genetic memory of wherethe Mu Relay was according to that same page on the wiki, so some Rachni definitely found it, and did so with enough time that the knowledge was known even to an unborn queen. So it seems like if Sovereign was indoctrinating them, he wouldn't have much trouble finding the location.

Maybe Sovereign never even looked? He may have just been trying to use the rachni to take the citadel by force to bring all the other reapers in. All this would have needed was for the rachni to win a battle of attrition against the asari and salarians (which they might have been able to w/o the krogan coming into play). Only when the rachni were defeated did Sovereign start looking for other ways, since the citadel forces were becoming too strong to openly attack, and only then did the location of the Mu Relay become something worth looking for.

RGC_Ines wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I
wager that ME3 will include an epic space battle. However, it will
probably just be a distraction while Shep & Co. go on a stealth
mission or something to deliver the super-fancy-top-secret Reaper
countermeasure.

Well It could be great to see an epic
space battle at last at the end of ME3. I was so proud about my Normandy
and Alliance Fleet at the end of ME1 and it;s my fav moment in this
game. And at the end of Mass Effect Trilogy I want to feel it again
about my Sheppard and her allies such a Krogans, Rachni, Gethes,
Alliance, Migrant Fleet and crew fighting together against the Reapers..

I want to see the same exact choice as at the end of ME1 if you saved the Council and rallied all the species to make a massive fleet. Like, the Council is travelling around the galaxy, taking time off from dismissing claims and frustrating former spectres. Unfortunately, their ship is on a direct intercept course with the bulk of the Reaper fleet. Do you a) send your meticulously constructed multispecies fleet into the fray to start the final battle early and save those deluded fools for a second time, or wait for a better chance, and let the turian councillor see how well airquotes work against a few hundred Mecha-Cthulhus (or if Udina's with the council, he could unleash a political s***-storm on the Reapers).

[Zulu_DFA]

Talogrungi wrote...

Could that not mean that the Reapers influenced the mobilization of the Rachni in an attempt to to locate the Mu Relay, but were unable to get the location from the Rachni prior to them being wiped out by the Krogan?

Lol.



So if the Rachni were wiped out before they could locate the Mu Relay... how did the Rachni queen inherit its cooridinates?

[Talogrungi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Talogrungi wrote...
Could that not mean that the Reapers influenced the mobilization of the Rachni in an attempt to to locate the Mu Relay, but were unable to get the location from the Rachni prior to them being wiped out by the Krogan?

Lol.

So if the Rachni were wiped out before they could locate the Mu Relay... how did the Rachni queen inherit its cooridinates?

Ya misread; I said that (maybe) the Rachni were wiped out before the Reapers could get the location from them. We know that there were a crapload of Rachni and we don't know how (or admittedly, if) Sovereign was influencing their actions .. but I would hazard a guess that Sovereign wouldn't be able to instantaneously know everything that every Rachni was doing everywhere; hence the possibility that the Rachni found the Mu Relay and were then wiped out before they could pass the location onto Sovereign.

[atheelogos]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

atheelogos wrote...
"How long ago this activation should have occurred is unclear" It was about 2,000 years. Thats when the Rachni Wars started. Sovereign instigated it so he/she/they could get back to the citadel and take control.

If Sovereign instigated the Rachni Wars, it would know the location of the Mu Relay. Sovereign didn't know the location of the Mu Relay. Hence, Sovereign did not instigate the Rachni Wars.

LOL dude there isn't a debate here. It's a known fact the Reapers were behind it. lol Haven't you been playing the games? And no one knew the location of the relay because it was moved by the supernova. How would Sovereign magically know where it was at?

[MadCat221]

I've said this before...

The first step is to dust off that ol' Citadel Skeleton Key that Vigil gave you and fiddle around with the system-wide settings for the mass relay network. Namely, set the mass relays to deny the Reapers access. That way, they have to trudge the long way, tiring them out, expending a lot more fuel, and requiring a lot of drive discharge layovers.

Modifié par MadCat221, 23 novembre 2010 - 05:52 .

[adam_grif]

The Reapers probably don't need discharge layovers because the derelict Reaper core was active for the past 37 million years, keeping it from falling into the star it was in orbit around. I'm willing to believe that it could get solar power from the star to explain why it didn't run out of power, but 37 my without a discharge...

[Zulu_DFA]

atheelogos wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

atheelogos wrote...
"How long ago this activation should have occurred is unclear" It was about 2,000 years. Thats when the Rachni Wars started. Sovereign instigated it so he/she/they could get back to the citadel and take control.

If Sovereign instigated the Rachni Wars, it would know the location of the Mu Relay. Sovereign didn't know the location of the Mu Relay. Hence, Sovereign did not instigate the Rachni Wars.

LOL dude there isn't a debate here. It's a known fact the Reapers were behind it. lol Haven't you been playing the games? And no one knew the location of the relay because it was moved by the supernova. How would Sovereign magically know where it was at?

It's just as known a fact, as my "Cereberus IS part of the Alliance" theory. Only my theory is based on a ton of circumstantial evidence, while "the Racnhi were indoctrinated" theory is based only on the loony talk about some colored space music, coming from a necromantic bug, who is trapped in a life-or-death situation and has been recently mind-raped by an indocriantaed Asari.

But for all we know, the "sour yellow note" must have been just the Krogans stomping the elder queens into their own toxic feces.

Then, if we go by the Vigil's tale, which is itself very questionable, Sovereign needed allies only upon discovery that something went terribly wrong with the "Plan A". So the first thing Sovereign would do once it managed to indoctrinate the Rachni was to datamine their "genetic memories" to find out what they knew... Reapers do that: see Retribution.

The notion that The Racnhi first went to war, then lost contact with Sovereign and only then found the Mu relay is overturned by two facts:
1) the Mu Relay's coordinates are unknown to the Council races, which suggests that the Rachni traveled to it before the War (or else the Council/Krogans would pursue them there to check for possible hideouts);
2) the queen itself says that it had to hear the "sour yellow note" as an egg for some prolonged period of time, which suggests that it was laid not in the last minute of the Rachni race existence.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 23 novembre 2010 - 09:57 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, 2) at least can be explained by the genetic memory of the Rachni.

And there are varying effects of indoctrination, and what the Reapers can get out of their thralls. Grayson's implants into his body and mind were a completely different basis and sort compared to traditional indoctrination fields. Simply because (if, whatever) the Rachni were indoctrinated does not mean that they were data mined as well. Without speed-of-thought implants for datamining, indoctrination would provide the answers to the questions one asks... but if Sovereign never asked for the Mu Relay (reasonable on a number of levels, as it wasn't critical to the plans/might not have known the Rachni knew it/etc.), then it never would have been told.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 23 novembre 2010 - 10:09 .

[Zulu_DFA]

@ Dean_the_Young.

Well, I admit what you say can be the case, but you could just as well say "sloppy writing, deal with it". Because it's still sloppy writing that it takes 2000 years for Sovereign to smarten up and start investigating instead of zergrushing the problem.

But there is also this: why would Sovereign try to activate the Keepers when the Citadel had been only just discovered by two emerging species, and nothing like a vast galactic empire was in existence? The Galaxy wasn't ripe for the reaping then!

What I see here is just stupid-paragon idealism, trying to bleach out the Rachni and seeking a way for them to be something else than a standard sci-fi "bug race", which is there only to be exterminated by the good guys. Hence, the theory connecting the Rachni to the "Devil of the ME universe", the Reapers. Haven't you come across similar "TIM is a Reaper" theories?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 23 novembre 2010 - 10:53 .