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[wookieeassassin]

I don't remember all the details from Mass Effect 1 but from what I seem to recall she was very distrustful of non-humans and was also quite supportive of wiping out the Rachni race. I know that in ME2 at the Normandy crash site Navigator Pressly has a log that shows he was quite hostile towards aliens at first but changed later on, but I don't remember if Ashley ever really changed her attitude about it.

Reason I ask is I didn't romance Miranda on my "canon" ME2 save because, even if she doesn't necessarily support some of Cerberus' actions, she still at least tolerates them by working for the organization. Now that I'm thinking about it though, I don't think it may have been the best idea to romance Ashley either, if she never changed her attitude that is.

I'm kind of regretting not romancing Liara now, since she seems like an overall decent person.. I mean, asari.

[Yojimbo_Ltd]

don't base your decision on ME2. That's probably your one and only mistake...

[Xilizhra]

You could have romanced Tali.

[Iakus]

wookieeassassin wrote...

I don't remember all the details from Mass Effect 1 but from what I seem to recall she was very distrustful of non-humans and was also quite supportive of wiping out the Rachni race. I know that in ME2 at the Normandy crash site Navigator Pressly has a log that shows he was quite hostile towards aliens at first but changed later on, but I don't remember if Ashley ever really changed her attitude about it.

Reason I ask is I didn't romance Miranda on my "canon" ME2 save because, even if she doesn't necessarily support some of Cerberus' actions, she still at least tolerates them by working for the organization. Now that I'm thinking about it though, I don't think it may have been the best idea to romance Ashley either, if she never changed her attitude that is.

I'm kind of regretting not romancing Liara now, since she seems like an overall decent person.. I mean, asari.

If you romanced Ashley, you got a chance to change her views on aliens, and make her more accepting of them towards the end of ME 1.

Though I always thought Ashley's attitude towards aliens was more...complicated...than outright racist.  Her distrust was more from ignorance than ideology.

[belwin]

Xilizhra wrote...

You could have romanced Tali.

quoted for being what i did.

[Aigyl]

You could charm Ashley into softening her views on aliens if you took the right dialogue route in one of her conversations. If you did and then took her to Ilos she'd always support saving the council. I *think* it was an option only male Shepards could get however. Female Shepards could do the opposite to Kaidan and make him support letting the council die. I doubt it'll alter their characters in the future though, it was a pretty minor thing and easy to miss.

Ashley isn't really a racist in the first place though - she works fine in the Salarian team on Virmire and hates Terra Firma for being xenophobic and bigoted. She just believes that humanity should come first over other races and be prepared to go it alone without the Citadel's help.

Modifié par Aigyl, 15 novembre 2010 - 12:25 .

[Dean_the_Young]

She was never racist in the first place, so no.



You could, however, paragonize her, though I can't recall when you can.

[AntiChri5]

Ashley wasn't racist.

[wookieeassassin]

I recall her having some fairly racist overtones in the first game, are you sure she didn't act that way?

[Weskerr]

If you choose to have her die on the Vermire mission in ME1, there's a news story in ME2 that says she was awarded a Turian and Salarian award posthumously - the first human to receive awards from them - and that she was reported to have said, "Human or alien, we're all just animals."

Modifié par Weskerr, 15 novembre 2010 - 12:38 .

[Landline]

Weskerr wrote...

If you choose to have her die on the Vermire mission in ME1, there's a news story in ME2 that says she was awarded a Turian and Salarian award posthumously - the first human to receive awards from them - and that she was reported to have said, "Human or alien, we're all just animals."

I have a sneaking suspicion that that was a miss-quote of when she said "I can't tell the aliens from the animals."

[Seraphithan]

She has two or three lines that are really punch-in-the-face worthy, but in general she is more of a xenophob than a racist. She distrusts aliens and expects them to backstab humanity the very first opportunity and judging by the encounter on Horizon that doesn't change much, but she doesn't see humans as superior by default.

[ElectronicFerret]

I left Ashley alive on Virmire solely because I thought that she had the most to learn and character development to do. Kaiden is sane, stable, capable, and has had bad encounters with aliens but knows better than to judge.



Ashley is a bit of a hothead, loves to shoot first and ask questions later, and seems overall like the midgame Cheetor to Shepard's Primal.





and oh god that was a horrible analogy





ANYWAYS there wasn't a lot of room for change in ME2. I'm hoping in ME3 our conversations and actions play a role in her POV.

[Dean_the_Young]

Seraphithan wrote...

She has two or three lines that are really punch-in-the-face worthy, but in general she is more of a xenophob than a racist. She distrusts aliens and expects them to backstab humanity the very first opportunity and judging by the encounter on Horizon that doesn't change much, but she doesn't see humans as superior by default.

Except, she doesn't think that.

Ash's policy is that, when the chips are down, the Council will look after its own interests before taking one for humanity. And from every example of Council policy to date, that's pretty much the case. She doesn't attribute it to malevolence. She doesn't atribute it to racism.  It's a world of xeno-nationalism, and she sees it through a (justified) nationalist eye.

[wookieeassassin]

I hope the Mass Effect save editor is updated enough so that by the time ME3 comes around I can say I romanced Liara in ME1, and romanced her in the Shadow Broker in ME2. What Seraphithan is saying sounds a lot like the impression I got from her (and still have), which is probably why I didn't like her in the first game. All the other squadmates were likable.

I'm going to go off on a tangent about the ME2 squadmates:

I liked most of the squadmates in ME2, but I think only Jack and Zaeed were the ones I really didn't care for. Regardless of the past, Jack is a damn murderer, killed dozens of people. Zaeed was going to let all the the people in the mining facility burn if I didn't tell his ass no. Aside from that Zaeed was a total badass and had lots of cool things to say while on the ship. I was on the edge about Thane, whether he was really "good" or not. I liked Miranda and Jacob, they never said anything I can recall that made me be like "WTF" like Ashley did, but they still work for Cerberus, so they at least tolerate the things they've done.

Jacob and Miranda didn't seem like they really "belonged" to Cerberus though, espeically Jacob. He just seemed like too nice a guy. He was PISSED in his loyalty mission about his dad too.

She isn't a squad member, but Kelly Chambers seems like she doesn't fit with Cerberus either. In fact, most of the crew doesn't seem like the Cerberus type. I guess none of them really talk about the assassinations and experiements though so you don't know whether they support or even believe that stuff.

Modifié par wookieeassassin, 15 novembre 2010 - 01:11 .

[wookieeassassin]

mrsph: Yep.

I guess different species would be slightly different than different races of humans, but it's still racist.

[Dean_the_Young]

wookieeassassin wrote...

I hope the Mass Effect save editor is updated enough so that by the time ME3 comes around I can say I romanced Liara in ME1, and romanced her in the Shadow Broker in ME2. What Seraphithan is saying sounds a lot like the impression I got from her (and still have), which is probably why I didn't like her in the first game. All the other squadmates were likable.

I'm going to go off on a tangent about the ME2 squadmates:

I liked most of the squadmates in ME2, but I think only Jack and Zaeed were the ones I really didn't care for. Regardless of the past, Jack is a damn murderer, killed dozens of people. Zaeed was going to let all the the people in the mining facility burn if I didn't tell his ass no. Aside from that Zaeed was a total badass and had lots of cool things to say while on the ship. I was on the edge about Thane, whether he was really "good" or not. I liked Miranda and Jacob, they never said anything I can recall that made me be like "WTF" like Ashley did, but they still work for Cerberus, so they at least tolerate the things they've done.

Jacob and Miranda didn't seem like they really "belonged" to Cerberus though, espeically Jacob. He just seemed like too nice a guy. He was PISSED in his loyalty mission about his dad too.

She isn't a squad member, but Kelly Chambers seems like she doesn't fit with Cerberus either. In fact, most of the crew doesn't seem like the Cerberus type. I guess none of them really talk about the assassinations and experiements though so you don't know whether they support or even believe that stuff.

Or maybe Cerberus isn't what you thought. You consider that?

[Iakus]

mrsph wrote...

Not trusting someone because of their race is being prejudice.

It is prejudice, but prejudice born of ignorance.

Prior to Mass Effect, Ash has had virtually no contact with any alien species.  She's also grown up under the shadow of her family's blacklisting after the First Contact War.  She's been taught to be tough, independant, and self-reliant.  In all respects.  (notice how all her stories revolve around her or her family's independence and standing up for themselves?)  That includes humanity standing on its own, without outside help.  She doesn't hate aliens.  She doesn't think they have humanity's best interests at heart.  She says the same of politicians.  I suspect Ash has a generally poor opinion of most humans. 

[Seraphithan]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Seraphithan wrote...

She has two or three lines that are really punch-in-the-face worthy, but in general she is more of a xenophob than a racist. She distrusts aliens and expects them to backstab humanity the very first opportunity and judging by the encounter on Horizon that doesn't change much, but she doesn't see humans as superior by default.

Except, she doesn't think that.

Ash's policy is that, when the chips are down, the Council will look after its own interests before taking one for humanity. And from every example of Council policy to date, that's pretty much the case. She doesn't attribute it to malevolence. She doesn't atribute it to racism.  It's a world of xeno-nationalism, and she sees it through a (justified) nationalist eye.

Backstabbing might have been a to aggressive wordchoice on my part, but aren't you - in essence - saying the same as I am?

mrsph wrote...

Not trusting someone because of their race is being prejudice.

It is being prejudice, not (automaticly) being racist

Modifié par Seraphithan, 15 novembre 2010 - 02:30 .

[Homey C-Dawg]

I don't believe Ashley was racist. I don't remember her saying anything about people of other races, only mistrust of aliens. She explains when talking about the bear and the dog that people (and aliens) will always choose their own when push comes to shove. Many people will always have this opinion, and it's not inherently "wrong" or "incorrect".



The word "racist" is inappropriately used in Mass Effect, like, all the time. It's just used throughout the game because it's something we as humans have dealt with amongst each other and can relate to, especially since most of the aliens in Mass Effect look like people wearing costumes.



To be a different "race" requires you to first be the same species.



Or maybe the word "race" has evolved to mean whatever we as the human race (human species?) want it to mean at the time.

[wookieeassassin]

No a race is technically a different species I believe. Humans are all the same race, just different skin pigments and genetic pasts.

[AntiChri5]

Jack is a damn murderer, killed dozens of people.

When? People have this impression of Jack as someone who shoots everyone she meets, but in game, Miranda kills more often. Jack is certainly no saint, but we don't know of any innocents she has killed.

[Elite Midget]

I'm sorry TC, I can't take you seriously. You really thought Ashley was racist? Hah, sounds like someone didn't talk to Ashley enough on the Normandy!



Hell, Mordin is more racist, or should I say speciest, than Ashley ever could hope to be.



Genophage? Krogan? Yeah... Mordin isn't afraid about nuetering the Krogan and refusing that they can change or that any of them are smart. Oh the irony when we meet Okeer who proves far more intelligent than Mordin. Than there's the fact that he pretends that Wrex, and his ways, doesn't even exists...