247 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Beaner28 wrote...

Why haven't we seen anything on the PC yet????

All previews have been from the demo aspect that's been introduced, where the console is easily shipped and used rather than carrying full PCs with mouse and keyboard. If consoles were harder to set up, we'd most likely be seeing a reverse situation where there's nothing about the PS3/X360 versions and the console people would feel like "they are hiding the bad console port" or "the game sucks on consoles".

You know the really ironic thing? I'm following the Witcher 2, and while it's a good game and shaping up well, the developers and fans are sometimes really obnoxious about some of their features, especially the whole PC-centric thing.

Well, you know how they preview gameplay? On a gamepad. Why? Because it's easier to control and cart around at demonstrations, and TW2 controls are compatible with it anyway. Bioware likely isn't doing the same because DA2 on the PC is unplayable without a keyboard and mouse, but you don't see anyone actually notice or bother to care.

[TuringPoint]

I dunno. I mean, sure, a laptop would be portable as well. There are any number of reasons they stick to console besides favoritism. Endorsements by Microsoft could be one reason, or just that a lap top won't be terribly representative of a really good experience. Or its just what's lying around, and its not as expensive as a PC. If something goes wrong, just buy another console, worst case.

While Dragon Age was premiered on the PC version, also keep in mind that they had been working on it for years, and that even when the console version came out it was - as I understand - pretty buggy.

Also, they're making the game. They've already talked about how making a demo build can be time consuming. Something else to point out is that this has always been Bioware's policy. Demo builds and demos of the final game have always been non existent or limited, going back to the Baldur's Gate days. Sometimes they release a demo after the full game, as they did with ME2.

So no, it's not whining to ask for the same features that have always been there. All this other stuff? Yeah, that's whining. Also, obsessing over these features is whining, because they are not as much of a day to day concern as cars will be, but car manufacturers probably care even less than Bioware does about customer complaints about features. You win some, you lose some. Why make your life miserable? Why make the lives of other people who have no control over these things more frustrating?

Go ahead and complain.  It might make their games better.  Just don't pick fights over it.

Modifié par Alocormin, 16 novembre 2010 - 06:00 .

[In Exile]

Beaner28 wrote...
So the fact dev time is shrunk down to barely a year and a half for DA 2 and you expect it to be better than DA:O?

Oh, dear...

What was the ratio of dev time for BG to BGII? Which was the better game?

[TuringPoint]

DA 2 will be a better game. It won't be the same type of game in many ways, but it will be an improved game.

[Skellimancer]

In Exile wrote...

Beaner28 wrote...
So the fact dev time is shrunk down to barely a year and a half for DA 2 and you expect it to be better than DA:O?

Oh, dear...

What was the ratio of dev time for BG to BGII? Which was the better game?

BG1.

[ErichHartmann]

In Exile wrote...

Beaner28 wrote...
So the fact dev time is shrunk down to barely a year and a half for DA 2 and you expect it to be better than DA:O?

Oh, dear...

What was the ratio of dev time for BG to BGII? Which was the better game?

BGII came out 19 months after BG1.  And I'll keep saying BGII superior to BGI with much better writing and focused plot.   

[Skellimancer]

ErichHartmann wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Beaner28 wrote...
So the fact dev time is shrunk down to barely a year and a half for DA 2 and you expect it to be better than DA:O?

Oh, dear...

What was the ratio of dev time for BG to BGII? Which was the better game?

BGII came out 19 months after BG1.  And I'll keep saying BGII superior to BGI with much better writing and focused plot.   

They both had the same quality writing. BG2 just had more and more and more. BG1 plot was wasn't focused? Avenging your fathers death and uncovering the hideous truth about your identity. The free exploration tacked on was the icing on the cake.

[addiction21]

Skellimancer wrote...

They both had the same quality writing. BG2 just had more and more and more. BG1 plot was wasn't focused? Avenging your fathers death and uncovering the hideous truth about your identity. The free exploration tacked on was the icing on the cake.

Aside from that damned ogre that shows up in the very early areas... and how I always forgot he was around when starting a new game.

[Skellimancer]

addiction21 wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

They both had the same quality writing. BG2 just had more and more and more. BG1 plot was wasn't focused? Avenging your fathers death and uncovering the hideous truth about your identity. The free exploration tacked on was the icing on the cake.

Aside from that damned ogre that shows up in the very early areas... and how I always forgot he was around when starting a new game.

But he has such nice belts. :happy: and he is useless against the might of the bow.

[Nozybidaj]

Skellimancer wrote...
The free exploration tacked on was the icing on the cake.

Icing.  You know, when you think about it, that is really what is missing from video games these days.  Everything is getting so streamlined and cut up to mimize overhead and maximize profits that games end up just feeling so flat and bare bones with everything.  Games these days need more icing, sadly very few companies are making games that come out with more than barren cake these days.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

You know the really ironic thing? I'm following the Witcher 2, and while it's a good game and shaping up well, the developers and fans are sometimes really obnoxious about some of their features, especially the whole PC-centric thing.

Well, you know how they preview gameplay? On a gamepad. Why? Because it's easier to control and cart around at demonstrations, and TW2 controls are compatible with it anyway. Bioware likely isn't doing the same because DA2 on the PC is unplayable without a keyboard and mouse, but you don't see anyone actually notice or bother to care.

That the Witcher has actual action-combat might have something to do with that.

In Exile wrote...

What was the ratio of dev time for BG to BGII?

They were about the same, weren't they?  BG2 just had a way bigger dev team.

Which was the better game?

BG was the better game.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
That the Witcher has actual action-combat might have something to do with that.

Indeed. The point, though, is that the Witcher dev team absolutely prides themselves on PC elitiism. Yet, for the sake fo convenience, they do not use a mouse & keyboard.

If Bioware cannot demo DA2 on the PC with a gamepad because DA2 requires a mouse and keyboard, this is a good thing.

They were about the same, weren't they?  BG2 just had a way bigger dev team.

Indeed. As far as I know, BGII had about the same man hours. Might be wrong. The point, though, is that just having less time in terms of years to work on DA2 =! less investment in DA2, or even a worse game. That's all a red herring.

[AlanC9]

Skellimancer wrote...
BG1 plot was wasn't focused? Avenging your fathers death and uncovering the hideous truth about your identity.

Except that you're not actually doing either of those for most of the game, since you have no idea how to do them. The main plot starts with Nashkel, which is unrelated as far as your character knows, and it continues in that vein for a long time. At what point do you actually discover that you have been on the trail of the guy who killed Gorion? 80% finished?

The free exploration tacked on was the icing on the cake.

I guess I don't care for icing. Nothing makes me feel like I'm playing a game, as opposed to playing my character,  more than seeing what the level designers hid for me in this part of the world map.

[Sylvius the Mad]

AlanC9 wrote...

I guess I don't care for icing. Nothing makes me feel like I'm playing a game, as opposed to playing my character,  more than seeing what the level designers hid for me in this part of the world map.

That's how I feel about linear plots.  Seeing in every situation how the circumstances are designed to drive me in a specific direction - that feels contrived, to me.

[Revan312]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

That's how I feel about linear plots.  Seeing in every situation how the circumstances are designed to drive me in a specific direction - that feels contrived, to me.

To me that depends on the story.. If the devs simply want to tell a story outright then I don't necessarily mind linear plots, as long as the story itself is well made.  I see it like reading a book, I can't change the outcome in the book so all I can do is enjoy the tale itself, that is if it's a good book..

Which is where games are still trailing behind books in a big way.  I've never played a game that impacted me on the level of say Darkness At Noon or Brave New World. I still think RPGs need to start concentrating on stories with more complexity than your average blockbuster movie and/or daytime soap opera.

The level of enhanced audio/visual immersion is what games have going for them, now they need to take that aspect and start playing out truly deep stories with it, not simply the same man/woman vs ultimate evil plot for the millionth time.

[AlanC9]

Well, in reality it's all contrived, isn't it?

[Sylvius the Mad]

AlanC9 wrote...

Well, in reality it's all contrived, isn't it?

Of course.  The question is one of feeling contrived, and I suspect that's personal preference.

I'd rather tha world feel not like it was made just for me.  This is perhaps the one strength of MMORPGs; they can't have worlds designed just for one character, so they understandably don't feel like they do.

[ankuu]

I don't want to get into the war vs console war...but i would like to see some love for the PC users! In the past months i got disappointment after disappointment , first it was Fable III then ACB (which i wanted sooo bad) and now hearing in a interview that consoles are the target of DA2 ><

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Alocormin wrote...

DA 2 will be a better game. It won't be the same type of game in many ways, but it will be an improved game.

Sure if you consider streamlining to ME2 extremes and gutting internal systems, "better" Personally I've always noticed most sequels expand on what was the original game. Apparently thats no longer the Bioware mantra. Instead we get shortened dev cycles, less choice, and less customization. 

[Revan312]

Alocormin wrote...

DA 2 will be a better game. It won't be the same type of game in many ways, but it will be an improved game.

Blind optimism is the same as blind pessimism.

Modifié par Revan312, 16 novembre 2010 - 09:58 .

[ENolan]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

DA 2 will be a better game. It won't be the same type of game in many ways, but it will be an improved game.

Sure if you consider streamlining to ME2 extremes and gutting internal systems, "better" Personally I've always noticed most sequels expand on what was the original game. Apparently thats no longer the Bioware mantra. Instead we get shortened dev cycles, less choice, and less customization. 

Speaking of customization, has anyone seen anything of the character creation mode? besides devs obviously...

[Atakuma]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

DA 2 will be a better game. It won't be the same type of game in many ways, but it will be an improved game.

Sure if you consider streamlining to ME2 extremes and gutting internal systems, "better" Personally I've always noticed most sequels expand on what was the original game. Apparently thats no longer the Bioware mantra. Instead we get shortened dev cycles, less choice, and less customization. 

They aren't gutting anything. Being hyperbolic and dismissive doesnt help your argument.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Atakuma wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

DA 2 will be a better game. It won't be the same type of game in many ways, but it will be an improved game.

Sure if you consider streamlining to ME2 extremes and gutting internal systems, "better" Personally I've always noticed most sequels expand on what was the original game. Apparently thats no longer the Bioware mantra. Instead we get shortened dev cycles, less choice, and less customization. 

They aren't gutting anything. Being hyperbolic and dismissive doesnt help your argument.

Sure they are, they're gutting companion customization, fatigue, and armor penetration.

[AtreiyaN7]

So, being able to equip all the rings, belts, amulets that they were before amounts to gutting the companion customization? They took out a few things like individual armor pieces for companions (not the hugest loss, given the almost identical looks of the non-unique armor sets in DA:O), plus the thing with the weapons, but that doesn't seem to qualify as a total gutting as far as companions go. I believe that the devs said that one can eventually add runes to their armor and that some modifications will even change the armor's effects (I would assume that this means that a companion might have, hypothetically, a permanent frost aura or something similar).

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

So, being able to equip all the rings, belts, amulets that they were before amounts to gutting the companion customization? They took out a few things like individual armor pieces for companions (not the hugest loss, given the almost identical looks of the non-unique armor sets in DA:O), plus the thing with the weapons, but that doesn't seem to qualify as a total gutting as far as companions go. I believe that the devs said that one can eventually add runes to their armor and that some modifications will even change the armor's effects (I would assume that this means that a companion might have, hypothetically, a permanent frost aura or something similar).

What would you call it then? Adding? Because it certainly isn't adding anything to the game aside from giving them them "unique looking companions" that will wear the same outfit for the whole entire game that s'posidly spans a decade of in game time. It'll sure make Isabela so much better to have her dress like a **** for the entire game because otherwise she just wouldn't be Isabela right?

Its the same thing with rogues, limiting them to daggers, removing yet another layer of choice from the game. There's streamlining to make a game smoother playing, and then there's gutting. Like ME2, whats been annouced so far certainly comes off as gutting more than simple streamlining.