223 réponses à ce sujet

[Huntress]

the_one_54321 wrote...

I'm rather stunned that someone would not want to finish these games. The only thing I can think of is too short an attention span.

Or they can't play the game because of bugs..

People complained about the bugs, I got few in awakening, had to restart the battle in the city like 12 times, I couldn't get in to the inn, a skeleton kept my party in combat and he was inmune to everything..yes I was so upset.. did they even tested that fight?

If you add computer shuting down, game crashing if you turn too fast, inmune enemies.. quests not wanting to fire up and missing it compleatly ( stupid merchants) well you get the idea.

[In Exile]

the_one_54321 wrote...

I'm rather stunned that someone would not want to finish these games. The only thing I can think of is too short an attention span.

Or it could just be taste. For every 9 ME2 or DA:O playthroughs, there are 10 games I could barely head 10 hours in.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I'm rather stunned that someone would not want to finish these games.

It surprises me, too, and yet I know four other people IRL who have purchased DAO and only one of them finished the game. (And he only finished it once, because he always plays mages in RPGs and they only had one origin story.)



Of course, I have sort of made up for this by becoming part of the tiny minority that plays the game over and over - just finished my sixth run today, which means I've completed the game with each origin.

[the_one_54321]

I've had a few crashes. But nothing to the point that I was really frustrated with the game. All this talk of bugs is a little bewildering to me because I mostly have not experienced any.

[Fishy]

FedericoV wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Back in my day games were 80-100 dollars and no one complained!

They cost exactly that much for consoles in most of Europe.

True, especially on PS3. That's why I allways laugh about people who says that they cannot afford to play on the pc. I mean, you like consolle more? Ok, fine. But not say that gaming on consolle is cheaper because it's not true.

You can rent game . That a plus for any parent.

[evilhouseboat]

Stick668 wrote...

"Roughly 50% of the people who started Mass Effect 2 finished the game."

IGN Article - Crazy Mass Effect 2 Stats and What They're Used For

Might be more stuff around here somewhere, I suppose.

Thanks for that link!!!!

I'm glad developers finally have a system where they can improve their games using player data instead of relying on forums.

This will only lead to better games.

50% finishing the game seems like a good number.
I have a feeling that's high a number in the industry. Does anyone know the industry average?

[the_one_54321]

In Exile wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
I'm rather stunned that someone would not want to finish these games. The only thing I can think of is too short an attention span.

Or it could just be taste. For every 9 ME2 or DA:O playthroughs, there are 10 games I could barely head 10 hours in.

This is also beyond me. The list of games that I have purchased that I did not have an interest in finishing is a very very short list indeed.

[Vena_86]

Well, if you (anyone) don't like a game and don't want to finish it then that's your problem. But it's just terrible to see how this influences the way games and specially RPGs are being developed. They are getting shorter and shorter and chopped into disconnected pieces with DLC.

It is almost impossible to really dive into a game these days, that you will remember like a good book. Everything has become so fast and superficial like fast food.

Dragon Age 2 will probably be a lot shorter than Dragon Age: Origins (yeah, speculation) just because some spoiled fat kid wants to try the other games mommy has bought during the same weekend.

[errant_knight]

In Exile wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

I'm rather stunned that someone would not want to finish these games. The only thing I can think of is too short an attention span.

Or it could just be taste. For every 9 ME2 or DA:O playthroughs, there are 10 games I could barely head 10 hours in.

Yep. I agree. Frankly, I don't finish most games. I mean to, I really do. I just start doing something else and forget about it. I abandoned 2 games to play DA:O and have never gone back, because I've never stopped playing DA:O. Most games just kind of bore me. I suppose that I've finished more games that are short and simple, but not because I liked them better, more like they ended before I reached my boredom threshold. DA:O is the only game I've ever replayed repeatedly, because it's the only game I liked that well.

If this is the kind of thing they use in deciding how to make games, it may well mean that I never like a game that much again. Still, DA:O was very popular. I can't help think that someone will use it as a model to create a new game. I hope so, otherwise, the chances of me playing another game that I like that much seems fairly slim. It may not be Bioware that does it, though, or any company that is required to produce the mass market numbers that EA seems to expect.

Modifié par errant_knight, 15 novembre 2010 - 05:12 .

[Ziggeh]

Vena_86 wrote...

But it's just terrible to see how this influences the way games and specially RPGs are being developed.

You don't think it might have more to do with the story just being shorter or anything?

The main aim of Origins was to introduce a world, a culture. They built a plot around visiting these different areas and not the other way around. They gave you companions wh owould see things from different perspectives in order to better show you Thedas. There was a good deal to cover and say.

They don't have to do so much exposition this time. It's about this Hawke guy, and yes, theres lots to explore, but there is less they need to in order to tell their story.

A story is as long as it is, yeah there are probably some development constraints too, voice over work and such, but really what you're lamenting is a lack of filler material. Maybe they could create a mining mini game. Maybe you could play some sort of flash game in between sessions and pretend that was part of the game too.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 15 novembre 2010 - 05:15 .

[the_one_54321]

errant_knight wrote...

In Exile wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
I'm rather stunned that someone would not want to finish these games. The only thing I can think of is too short an attention span.

Or it could just be taste. For every 9 ME2 or DA:O playthroughs, there are 10 games I could barely head 10 hours in.

Yep. I agree. Frankly, I don't finish most games. I mean to, I really do. I just start doing something else and forget about it. I abandoned 2 games to play DA:O and have never gone back, because I've never stopped playing DA:O. Most games just kind of bore me. I suppose that I've finished more games that are short and simple, but not because I liked them better, more like they ended before I reached my boredom threshold. DA:O is the only game I've ever replayed repeatedly, because it's the only game I liked that well.

This is not intended to be snide or condescending remark. It is meant to be a simple observation.

That does not sound like "a matter of taste." That sounds like a text book description of a short attention span.

[errant_knight]

the_one_54321 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

In Exile wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
I'm rather stunned that someone would not want to finish these games. The only thing I can think of is too short an attention span.

Or it could just be taste. For every 9 ME2 or DA:O playthroughs, there are 10 games I could barely head 10 hours in.

Yep. I agree. Frankly, I don't finish most games. I mean to, I really do. I just start doing something else and forget about it. I abandoned 2 games to play DA:O and have never gone back, because I've never stopped playing DA:O. Most games just kind of bore me. I suppose that I've finished more games that are short and simple, but not because I liked them better, more like they ended before I reached my boredom threshold. DA:O is the only game I've ever replayed repeatedly, because it's the only game I liked that well.

This is not intended to be snide or condescending remark. It is meant to be a simple observation.

That does not sound like "a matter of taste." That sounds like a text book description of a short attention span.

Er, how so? I just said that the only game I liked well enough to play repeatedly is one of the longest games I've ever played--over 100 hours on my first play through, and never less that I'd say 70. In fact the games that I've liked most were all long games. I just said that I'll stop if I'm bored.

Modifié par errant_knight, 15 novembre 2010 - 05:15 .

[the_one_54321]

errant_knight wrote...
Most games just kind of bore me. I suppose that I've finished more games that are short and simple, but not because I liked them better, more like they ended before I reached my boredom threshold.

That part right there.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 15 novembre 2010 - 05:17 .

[the_one_54321]

the_one_54321 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
Most games just kind of bore me. I suppose that I've finished more games that are short and simple, but not because I liked them better, more like they ended before I reached my boredom threshold.

That part right there.

For more context, I'll give you an example of two games that I didn't finish.

FFX-2, because it was, stylisically, an abomination that should never be mentioned within the FF franchise ever again. I played 15 minutes of that game, then turned it off and never turned it back on again.

Typical playthrough for this game should be in the area of 60-80 hours.

Mirrors Edge, because it was broken. I tried to like this game because the gameplay concept was fantastic in theory. In practice it was an exercise in frustration and gamepads turning into angry projectiles. I finally just gave up after several hours because it was, plain and simple, not any fun to play.

Typical playthrough for this game should be in the area of 10-15 hours.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 15 novembre 2010 - 05:26 .

[Addai]

the_one_54321 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
I'm rather stunned that someone would not want to finish these games. The only thing I can think of is too short an attention span.

Or it could just be taste. For every 9 ME2 or DA:O playthroughs, there are 10 games I could barely head 10 hours in.

This is also beyond me. The list of games that I have purchased that I did not have an interest in finishing is a very very short list indeed.

I'm the same way.  Just not that much of a gamer that I "need" to finish a game just because it's there.  Story-based games are the ones I'm driven to finish.  I would have quit DAO, too, except for Alistair and the damn rose.  With Fallout 3, I had to find Dad.  And so on.  But people have lives, it's not like they're obligated to finish a game.  If they buy games anyway, why is this a bad thing for developers?  Someone who drops cash on a game without thinking much about it is a pretty valuable consumer to have.

Modifié par Addai67, 15 novembre 2010 - 05:29 .

[the_one_54321]

Wait, who are you the same way as?

[Perfect-Kenshin]

I think a big reason a lot of people didn't finish their game was due to the difficulty curve in addition to some of the more boring parts of DAO. When I first started out, I found some parts to be extremely difficult (such as when I first fought a Revenant or when I first went through Mage's Asunder). Not to mention that the Fade was boring as hell, and that's pretty much what most people do at the beginning of the game. I can muster through such annoying gameplay, but I understand that alot of people don't have the same time and patience. I believe far more people would've continued playing DAO if the DEVS made it more clear how to succeed in the game from the get-go and didn't have really redundant parts which players have gone so far as to mod out of the game (i.e. Skip the Fade or changing the difficulty).

I don't believe simply shortening the game is going to make it better. If the same problems still exist, then the same kind of people are going to quit playing the game. Many 'long games' have done relatively well in the past (such as FF7), but that's because they were done RIGHT.

PS: I think a lot of the comments I've stumbled across in this thread are hilarious. Implying other people are stupid just because they decided to quit playing the game. I don't suppose I'm stupid because I quit playing crap like COD2 before even finishing it.

Modifié par Perfect-Kenshin, 15 novembre 2010 - 05:39 .

[errant_knight]

the_one_54321 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
Most games just kind of bore me. I suppose that I've finished more games that are short and simple, but not because I liked them better, more like they ended before I reached my boredom threshold.

That part right there.

Let me try again. In order for me to really find a game compelling and replayable, it has to have well developed, interesting characters. It has to have an involved story. It have to have a fully developed game world, with plots and subplots. Basically, it has to be as good as a book. It also has to have combat that has more to it than the excitement of being in a fight, that has enough of a a tactical component to be intellectually stimulating. I don't supose this has to equal long, but it has in the past.

I find most games have only a few of these qualities. Some of them are good enough that I finish them and enjoy them even though I found them to be lacking in one or more of these elements (ie the Fallout games, Morrowind, Oblivion). Some games, I finish even though I'm not all that interested, because they're so short it's almost impossible not to finish them before losing interest. They end pretty much when they get started. You'd have to have the attention span of a gerbil not to finish them.

One of the only games I've ever played that had all the aspects of depth, characterization, gameplay, and real storytelling that I consider ideal was DA:O. It's length wasn't a hinderance, it was part of why that was so. A short story isn't as fully developed as a novel, that's just the way it it.

In a vast sea of average games, one might finish very short ones more often, but that's not a point in their favor. It doesn't make them less boring than the other average games. It just makes them shorter. And because they're shorter, they end sooner. Because they end sooner, I may actually have reached the end before saying 'I don't care if I paid 70 dollars for this, I want to do something else.' I would say the exact same thing with a longer game at the same point. Both average games are equally dull. Playing longer is not the problem, although the short length may have added to the problem.

Modifié par errant_knight, 15 novembre 2010 - 05:41 .

[John Epler]

Addai67 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
I'm rather stunned that someone would not want to finish these games. The only thing I can think of is too short an attention span.

Or it could just be taste. For every 9 ME2 or DA:O playthroughs, there are 10 games I could barely head 10 hours in.

This is also beyond me. The list of games that I have purchased that I did not have an interest in finishing is a very very short list indeed.

I'm the same way.  Just not that much of a gamer that I "need" to finish a game just because it's there.  Story-based games are the ones I'm driven to finish.  I would have quit DAO, too, except for Alistair and the damn rose.  With Fallout 3, I had to find Dad.  And so on.  But people have lives, it's not like they're obligated to finish a game.  If they buy games anyway, why is this a bad thing for developers?  Someone who drops cash on a game without thinking much about it is a pretty valuable consumer to have.

Well, maybe as a publisher. But as a developer?

Developers put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into the games they make. While some people like to say we're lazy because we didn't put feature X or aspect Y into our game, the fact remains that for the last 5-6 months before a game reaches certification - most people are pulling 10-12 hour days and coming in on weekends. It's a labour of loves, and we're more than willing to put the time in because we believe in the product we're creating. And, most importantly - we want to show it off. We're like new parents - 'who wants to see pictures of our baby? Oh, that's a picture of when we stayed until 2AM in an alcohol and caffeine-fuelled madness only to figure out a simple and yet touching way of doing that scene in under an hour'.

We don't want you guys to just buy our game, play for an hour and then put it aside. Yeah, sure, we'll get the sale - but that's not the point, really. We don't want people to buy our games so we can buy gold-plated ponies and jetpacks. We want people to buy our games so we can keep making games. We love what we do, and we want people to play through them and then talk about them afterwards. We want you to go up to your friends and say 'Oh man, did you get to that part yet where that thing happens? I'm going to be honest, I cried like a baby.'

It's easy to dismiss us as being all about the money when we make decisions people disagree with. But if we were all about the money, I'm fairly certain most of us wouldn't be in the games industry. We do this because we love what we do, and we put everything into the stuff we make. We put it all on the table, lay it all on the line - whichever cliche you want to use. And we want you guys to see it, to experience it, to feel it. It's not about people buying our games, playing them and then moving onto the next. Never has been, and I wager it never will be for most of the people I work with.

So to end a somewhat rambling rant - you're right, in the end, you're not obligated to finish a game. Heck, I've got a massive backlog that I really need to pay some attention to someday. But we want you to finish the game. Because we put a lot of ourselves into the games we make, and we want you guys to experience that.

[In Exile]

the_one_54321 wrote...
This is also beyond me. The list of games that I have purchased that I did not have an interest in finishing is a very very short list indeed.

I didn't say I bought the game. I just said that there are lots of games I don't play until the end. But it appears that people don't open 10% of the games they buy, which to me is just insane.

[the_one_54321]

I would totally do it for jetpacks. Just saying...

[Ryzaki]

Hell I have a whole shelf of games I didn't feel like finishing. Not that big of a deal.

Edit: Though yes I understand the wanting your game to be played all the way to the end.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 novembre 2010 - 05:59 .

[Crimson Invictus]

JohnEpler wrote...
We don't want people to buy our games so we can buy gold-plated ponies and jetpacks.

Clearly, as that would just be silly.

You're never going to get a jetpack that can lift a gold-plated pony.

Modifié par Liana Nighthawk, 15 novembre 2010 - 05:55 .

[Leonia]

Gold-plated ponies sound AWESOME. But yeah, just wanted to say, that was a great post, John. The passion ya'll have for your product is practically palpable and that's what gets so many of us excited about trying each and every game you put out. Can't wait to give DA 2 a spin