152 réponses à ce sujet

[StarcloudSWG]

Steam isn't releasing its "# purchased through downloads" statistics, and the "2 million" units sold number being bandied about is solely for the X-Box boxed copies purchased by stores for sale.



Also.. when a store buys a copy from the distributor, they pay the distributor up front, right then and there. Therefore, EA, Bioware, and the distributors already have the money for those 2.2 million boxes shipped from the distributors.

[davidshooter]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

Steam isn't releasing its "# purchased through downloads" statistics, and the "2 million" units sold number being bandied about is solely for the X-Box boxed copies purchased by stores for sale.

Also.. when a store buys a copy from the distributor, they pay the distributor up front, right then and there. Therefore, EA, Bioware, and the distributors already have the money for those 2.2 million boxes shipped from the distributors.

Yes, these numbers are solely Xbox

Unless billing is different in the gaming world than other media they don't pay up front.  EOM 30 - 60-90 days billing is normal.  Also, different dealers would have different agreements with the distributors.  Some small retailers might pay up front but others aren't - Walmart ain't payin up front.

Modifié par davidshooter, 16 novembre 2010 - 08:57 .

[davidshooter]

something else to keep in mind is "Guaranteed Sale" initiatives. Distributors will often wave any return penalties on a "big" title to entice retailers to order big.

*That way they get a lot of units out there so no one is out of stock if it sells huge,
*They can pull the old "we sold 2 million in 6 minutes" press release,
*Big displays in the stores also serve to create an impact on the consumer.
*And if it stiffs, they take it all back and say we did the best we could to move the title - and in that case those units "reported as sold" never actually were purchased by anyone including the retailer.
*It might even be the case that the product was ordered, shipped, displayed, and returned before the billing was even due.

Retailing is a slimy business

Modifié par davidshooter, 16 novembre 2010 - 08:39 .

[Epic777]

To be fair, if me2 didn't make a profit you would know about it through gaming media, they thrive on this stuff.

[Aurica]

belwin wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

The point is, if someone buys ME2, then finds out that they will get more out of the game if they buy ME, they will then go buy ME, that increases ME sales too. So really, if that happens a lot, then ME2 will never out sell ME.

ME2 most likely outsold ME1 within the first weeks of it's release... ME2 is much more popular than ME1, even if you don't like it.

And yet ME1 has still outsold ME2 thus far...

guilty as charged with this.
i kept seeing hints about actions from ME in ME2 and wanted to see the extra gameplay,
so i bought ME shortly after ME2.

Me three...
My friend goaded me into playing ME2 and really hyped it up for me.   I ended up buying the original ME just to see my decisions in the ME carry over to ME 2. 

I was quite into DA that time and he kept insisting on how ME is a much better game than DA etc etc.. So I had to find out for myself too.

Modifié par Aurica, 16 novembre 2010 - 08:57 .

[davidshooter]

Epic777 wrote...

To be fair, if me2 didn't make a profit you would know about it through gaming media, they thrive on this stuff.

It made a profit.  If you sell 2 million units of anything and don't make money something is very wrong.

[Epic777]

davidshooter wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

To be fair, if me2 didn't make a profit you would know about it through gaming media, they thrive on this stuff.

It made a profit.  If you sell 2 million units of anything and don't make money something is very wrong.

So we are both in agreement. As for if me1 sold more than me2 or vice versa, thats always going to be nebulous as there are some many variables. All I know they both sold well.

[Raanz]

This is all pure guess work, but "usually", games that have over 1 million units sold are considered a financial success (depending on cost to produce). I would say that if ME2 cost more then 30-40 million to make, it was too much. Usually that money is fronted, in part, by the publisher, who then recoups it's expense plus some back-end money and the developing house gets a portion.



I'm thinking they made plenty of profit on ME2, ME1, and DA.

[davidshooter]

Epic777 wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

To be fair, if me2 didn't make a profit you would know about it through gaming media, they thrive on this stuff.

It made a profit.  If you sell 2 million units of anything and don't make money something is very wrong.

So we are both in agreement. As for if me1 sold more than me2 or vice versa, thats always going to be nebulous as there are some many variables. All I know they both sold well.

Yes, I don't (and haven't) disagreed with any of that.  It's just I think ME2 was an attempt to go after the shooter market and given that ME1 and ME2 both sold about the same we can probably safely say that not many shooter players were won over.  I honestly think Bioware was hoping to do somewhere in the neighborhood of doubling ME1 sales with the changes they made - I'm still not sure why it didn't happen - I wish it had for the franchise's sake.  But that puts them in a situation where they have to make some decisions about whether the shooter market is a lost cause for this franchise (especially at the risk of alienating the RPGers who are already on board and buying) or whether they just need to do more to win them (the shooters) over.

Both games made money though and the reviews are stellar so they are both successes in that sense.  I just think Bioware was expecting more from this game and despite the reviews I bet they are disappointed.

Modifié par davidshooter, 16 novembre 2010 - 10:48 .

[Lumikki]

Same old same. ME1 vs ME2.

[Mage One]

Slayer299 wrote...

Yes, I know. I did actually state that
very clearly in an earlier post on the same page since PC sales are
*not* tracked. And again. In fact, you're quoting to me what I have
written twice. SO yes, while 961,000 were sold week 1, the numbers
dipped to 268K on week 2 and 152K on week 3. Also, your EA article
states the 2 million units were Moved, not sold, again, that is
something I've already covered *twice*.

So what exactly have you said that is new from my original post???

edit - clarified info on post

Erm, nothing apparently.  My apologies.  Even though I do know the difference between "moved" and "sold," my brain glossed over the distinction wehn reading the article.  Also, I committed the the forum sin of not reading the entire thread before posting. (Something I've only ever done once before before, and that was on an 80+ page thread.)  I...don't really know why I did that.  The thread's not particularly long.  Regardless, that'll learn me.

It is strange.  I know even among my friends the game has not sold as well as I would have expected.  A lot of them say pretty much the same thing, "Yeah, it looks great.  I've heard nothng but good things about it," sometimes even followed by, "I should check it out," but they never do.  There's really no accounting for it.  Each of these people like both shooters and RPGs.  It's bizzarre.

[Epic777]

davidshooter wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

Yes, I don't (and haven't) disagreed with any of that.  It's just I think ME2 was an attempt to go after the shooter market and given that ME1 and ME2 both sold about the same we can probably safely say that not many shooter players were won over.  I honestly think Bioware was hoping to do somewhere in the neighborhood of doubling ME1 sales with the changes they made - I'm still not sure why it didn't happen - I wish it had for the franchise's sake.  But that puts them in a situation where they have to make some decisions about whether the shooter market is a lost cause for this franchise (especially at the risk of alienating the RPGers who are already on board and buying) or whether they just need to do more to win them (the shooters) over.

Both games made money though and the reviews are stellar so they are both successes in that sense.  I just think Bioware was expecting more from this game and despite the reviews I bet they are disappointed.

I understand people do not like me2 but lets stay away form completely unvalidated conspiracy theories. Me1 was both a commercial and critical success. Selling around 2 million is nothing to sneeze. Understand for me2 to double the sales of me1 it would have to sell as many copies as BG1 and BG2 sold combined.  Around 3-4 million copies would put me2 as one of the best games selling games of all time.

I disagree with the notion that just RPG fans bought me1, am sure many shooter fans bought me1 as the ME series is an RPG/shooter. 

[Slayer299]

Mage One wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

Yes, I know. I did actually state that
very clearly in an earlier post on the same page since PC sales are
*not* tracked. And again. In fact, you're quoting to me what I have
written twice. SO yes, while 961,000 were sold week 1, the numbers
dipped to 268K on week 2 and 152K on week 3. Also, your EA article
states the 2 million units were Moved, not sold, again, that is
something I've already covered *twice*.

So what exactly have you said that is new from my original post???

edit - clarified info on post

Erm, nothing apparently.  My apologies.  Even though I do know the difference between "moved" and "sold," my brain glossed over the distinction wehn reading the article.  Also, I committed the the forum sin of not reading the entire thread before posting. (Something I've only ever done once before before, and that was on an 80+ page thread.)  I...don't really know why I did that.  The thread's not particularly long.  Regardless, that'll learn me.

It is strange.  I know even among my friends the game has not sold as well as I would have expected.  A lot of them say pretty much the same thing, "Yeah, it looks great.  I've heard nothng but good things about it," sometimes even followed by, "I should check it out," but they never do.  There's really no accounting for it.  Each of these people like both shooters and RPGs.  It's bizzarre.

Sorry for being abrupt, I didn't mean to sound like a jerk.  Was a bad day on my end.

[davidshooter]

Epic777 wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

Yes, I don't (and haven't) disagreed with any of that.  It's just I think ME2 was an attempt to go after the shooter market and given that ME1 and ME2 both sold about the same we can probably safely say that not many shooter players were won over.  I honestly think Bioware was hoping to do somewhere in the neighborhood of doubling ME1 sales with the changes they made - I'm still not sure why it didn't happen - I wish it had for the franchise's sake.  But that puts them in a situation where they have to make some decisions about whether the shooter market is a lost cause for this franchise (especially at the risk of alienating the RPGers who are already on board and buying) or whether they just need to do more to win them (the shooters) over.

Both games made money though and the reviews are stellar so they are both successes in that sense.  I just think Bioware was expecting more from this game and despite the reviews I bet they are disappointed.

I understand people do not like me2 but lets stay away form completely unvalidated conspiracy theories. Me1 was both a commercial and critical success. Selling around 2 million is nothing to sneeze. Understand for me2 to double the sales of me1 it would have to sell as many copies as BG1 and BG2 sold combined.  Around 3-4 million copies would put me2 as one of the best games selling games of all time.

I disagree with the notion that just RPG fans bought me1, am sure many shooter fans bought me1 as the ME series is an RPG/shooter. 

*Nothing in my post is a conspiracy theory.

*4 million is a less than half of what they are on record as wanting to sell.
"10 million is the sales target BioWare is aiming to achieve with its future releases, studio co-founder Dr. Greg Zeschuk has told VideoGamer.com."

*I said both games were successes, but given the above quote and the fact this game hasn't expanded upon the initial releases sales base (they've sold about the same) I still think they are disappointed.

You might disagree, but I think they had much higher hopes in terms of sales with this game and I believe they wanted to get those sales from the shooter crowd - and I don't believe they did.

Modifié par davidshooter, 17 novembre 2010 - 05:15 .

[ShadyKat]

Busomjack wrote...

Is selling 2.2 million copies enough to turn a profit? This game seems really big budget so I think even with those numbers this game likely lost a profit. It's too bad, I hope they still make Mass Effect 3.

Well do the math. ME2 budget was around 25 million. It sold 2.3 million copies at around 59.99-39.99 a copy. I'd say it's safe to say it turned a pretty damn good profit.

[Epic777]

davidshooter wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

Yes, I don't (and haven't) disagreed with any of that.  It's just I think ME2 was an attempt to go after the shooter market and given that ME1 and ME2 both sold about the same we can probably safely say that not many shooter players were won over.  I honestly think Bioware was hoping to do somewhere in the neighborhood of doubling ME1 sales with the changes they made - I'm still not sure why it didn't happen - I wish it had for the franchise's sake.  But that puts them in a situation where they have to make some decisions about whether the shooter market is a lost cause for this franchise (especially at the risk of alienating the RPGers who are already on board and buying) or whether they just need to do more to win them (the shooters) over.

Both games made money though and the reviews are stellar so they are both successes in that sense.  I just think Bioware was expecting more from this game and despite the reviews I bet they are disappointed.

I understand people do not like me2 but lets stay away form completely unvalidated conspiracy theories. Me1 was both a commercial and critical success. Selling around 2 million is nothing to sneeze. Understand for me2 to double the sales of me1 it would have to sell as many copies as BG1 and BG2 sold combined.  Around 3-4 million copies would put me2 as one of the best games selling games of all time.

I disagree with the notion that just RPG fans bought me1, am sure many shooter fans bought me1 as the ME series is an RPG/shooter. 

*Nothing in my post is a conspiracy theory.

*4 million is a less than half of what they are on record as wanting to sell.
"10 million is the sales target BioWare is aiming to achieve with its future releases, studio co-founder Dr. Greg Zeschuk has told VideoGamer.com."

*I said both games were successes, but given the above quote I still think they are disappointed.

You might disagree, but I think they had much higher hopes in terms of sales with this game and I believe they wanted to get those sales from the shooter crowd - and I don't believe they did.

Then my apologizes for jumping the gun on your post.
If that was their goal then they have more crazy than sheogorath+the mad hermit+paranoid incarnation (+1 rep for guessing the referenced games).  No halo game has sold 10 million,  Half life 2 didn't sell 10 million. There is no shooter this decade that has sold that much. If me2 sold that much, it would be the biggest RPG next to WOW and Pokemon.
Are you sure he didn't mean the combined sales of all releases?

Modifié par Epic777, 17 novembre 2010 - 05:39 .

[Phaedon]

Wait, I just realized something. Why the heck do we dismiss 'sell in' instead of 'sell through' when we are talking about 'the game turning a profit'. ME2 sold in much more than ME, which means that the retailers bought the game, and therefore turned a profit ? Am I being wrong here ?

[Phaedon]

Epic777 wrote...

Then my apologizes for jumping the gun on your post.
If that was their goal then they have more crazy than sheogorath+the mad hermit+paranoid incarnation (+1 rep for guessing the referenced games).  No halo game has sold 10 million,  Half life 2 didn't sell 10 million. There is no shooter this decade that has sold that much. If me2 sold that much, it would be the biggest RPG next to WOW and Pokemon.
Are you sure he didn't mean the combined sales of all releases?

Maybe they mean 10 million $ ?

[JohnnyBeGood2]

davidshooter wrote...
... It's just I think ME2 was an attempt to go after the shooter market and given that ME1 and ME2 both sold about the same we can probably safely say that not many shooter players were won over.  I honestly think Bioware was hoping to do somewhere in the neighborhood of doubling ME1 sales with the changes they made - I'm still not sure why it didn't happen - I wish it had for the franchise's sake...

ME2 just doesnt feel like a shooter... Even when I play the missions, it still doesnt feel like a shooter.
Give it online multiplayer and it might... but you know that not one rpger wants that.. because then we'll all be 5:1, shooter players : rpgers on the forums.

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 17 novembre 2010 - 10:41 .

[Zulu_DFA]

davidshooter wrote...
... It's just I think ME2 was an attempt to go after the shooter market and given that ME1 and ME2 both sold about the same we can probably safely say that not many shooter players were won over.  I honestly think Bioware was hoping to do somewhere in the neighborhood of doubling ME1 sales with the changes they made - I'm still not sure why it didn't happen - I wish it had for the franchise's sake...

For the franchise's sake BioWare should not have tried to change the genre mid-series. A dim hope remains that due to the lower sales against those projected they'll take at least one step back to make a couple steps in the right direction.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 17 novembre 2010 - 10:47 .

[Lumikki]

davidshooter wrote...

*Nothing in my post is a conspiracy theory.

You only point here in this thread has been to shout message: I laugh you Bioware trying to please shooter players, I'm clad that you did not reach major hit levels. Look even RPG sells more or same. You are basicly bitter as what kind of game ME2 is and try to say ME1 did it better. This is same BS what we have heard long time here, ME1 vs ME2. You just try to use sale numbers to prove you point. How ever, you also forget that sales numers is just half the profit calculation. You also need cost numbers, where is you cost numbers?

You also assume bioware is targeting for shooter players. I assume they are targeting they game for us and wanted better shooter combat for they Mass Effect serie, because first one wasn't so good at it's TPS. Anyone who likes Biowares games is fine for Bioware. They are just trying to make good games.

ME1 has sold hole 3 years time only VERY little more than Mass Effect has done it's under one year time. We could even say that both games has sold ABOUT same amount. How ever, ME1 was developed alot longer and that cuts it's profit. How ever, without actually knowing income and cost of both games we have absolute zero possiblity know how much both games made profit. Mostly because sale numbers are just one side of calculation. We don't have the cost side knowledge at all.

What you do in this thread is just bash ME2 because you personal bitterness and try to use sales numbers as you excuse. If you would be neutral, you would just come to conlusion that both Mass Effect games did equal well in bussiness wise and both games are excelent entertaiment for players.

Modifié par Lumikki, 17 novembre 2010 - 12:47 .

[davidshooter]

Lumikki wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

*Nothing in my post is a conspiracy theory.

You only point here in this thread has been to shout message: I laugh you Bioware trying to please shooter players, I'm clad that you did not reach major hit levels. Look even RPG sells more or same. You are basicly bitter as what kind of game ME2 is and try to say ME1 did it better. This is same BS what we have heard long time here, ME1 vs ME2. You just try to use sale numbers to prove you point. How ever, you also forget that sales numers is just half the profit calculation. You also need cost numbers, where is you cost numbers?

You also assume bioware is targeting for shooter players. I assume they are targeting they game for us and wanted better shooter combat for they Mass Effect serie, because first one wasn't so good at it's TPS. Anyone who likes Biowares games is fine for Bioware. They are just trying to make good games.

ME1 has sold hole 3 years time only VERY little more than Mass Effect has done it's under one year time. We could even say that both games has sold ABOUT same amount. How ever, ME1 was developed alot longer and that cuts it's profit. How ever, without actually knowing income and cost of both games we have absolute zero possiblity know how much both games made profit. Mostly because sale numbers are just one side of calculation. We don't have the cost side knowledge at all.

What you do in this thread is just bash ME2 because you personal bitterness and try to use sales numbers as you excuse. If you would be neutral, you would just come to conlusion that both Mass Effect games did equal well in bussiness wise and both games are excelent entertaiment for players.

Is English your native language? I mean that seriously, because you seem to be having trouble grasping pretty simple concepts and distinctions.
I love this game, it is one of my all time favorites, I like it better than ME1 overall, and I'm more of a shooter fan than an RPG fan. So you've pretty much misunderstood everything possible. I've already stated in this thread - several times - that I wanted this game to sell well and I don't fully understand why it didn't sell better than it did. 
Discussing the reality of sales as it relates to the developers stated objectives is not bashing a game - it's having an intelligent discussion - which much of this thread has been.
I Don't know what else to say to your post.

[Nozybidaj]

Nah, you'll know when a BW game doesn't turn a profit. EA will have their doors locked within 24 hours.

[Lumikki]

davidshooter wrote...

Is English your native language?

No it's not my native language, but I do understand it pretty well. So, no point to mock my english reading. I know my writing isn't that good, but at least people seem to understand what I write, even with all mistakes I make.

I mean that seriously, because you seem to be having trouble grasping pretty simple concepts and distinctions.

There is different what you mean to say, what you are saying and what you also say. Example, You also make assumptions based your "attitude".

You assume that ME2 is design more to shooter fans? Why? I ask, because I'm RPG fan and I don't like shooters (FPS). So, I don't understand why people assume better TPS combat and more streamlined design in Mass Effect cinematic impression action game is equal as shooter fan?

You also assume that Bioware is disapoinment to sales of ME2. Question is, why don't you assume they are disapoinment of ME1 sales? As it's sales numbers are very close to same as ME2?

Modifié par Lumikki, 17 novembre 2010 - 02:04 .

[davidshooter]

Lumikki wrote...

davidshooter wrote...

Is English your native language?

No it's not my native language, but I do understand it pretty well. So, no point to mock my english reading. I know my writing isn't that good, but at least people seem to understand what I write, even with all mistakes I make.

I mean that seriously, because you seem to be having trouble grasping pretty simple concepts and distinctions.

There is different what you mean to say, what you are saying and what you also say. You also make assumptions based your "attitude".

You assume that ME2 is design more to shooter fans? Why? I ask, because I'm RPG fan and I don't like shooters. So, I don't understand why people assume better TPS and more streamlined design in Mass Effect cinematic impression action game is equal as shooter fan?

You also assume that Bioware is disapoinment to sales of ME2. Question is, why don't you assume they are disapoinment of ME1 sales? As it's sales numbers are very close to same as ME2?

-I'm not mocking you, which is why I said that I was seriously asking, (I notice you took that part out of your quote) because you attempted to define my views on ME2 - got all of them wrong - while hurling a bag full of inaccurate accusations. 

-I have no idea what you are trying to say to me in the part of your post I bolded.

-Bioware stated on many occasions that they wanted to make a game that appealed to gamers who lean more to the shooter side of things in addition to their current fanbase.  That's why I "assume it".

-Yes I assume Bioware is probably somewhat disappointed with ME2s sales because it is the second game in a franchise and common sense would indicate they were hoping to expand upon the game's fanbase which would mean greater sales than the first game.  Disappointment with the sales does not equal disappointment with their product however either on my part or on theirs.  It is possible to do something very well, be proud of your work but still be disappointed with sales.

Modifié par davidshooter, 17 novembre 2010 - 02:20 .