152 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

Did they say shooter side is made for appealed more shooter fans or did they say they shooter side is appealed to more players? There is big difference here. People can make "wrong" assumption what it means. Meaning better TPS combat doesn't equal shooter fan. There is other players than shooters and rpg's in this world too.

I ask again, do you assume that Bioware is disapointment they ME1 sales numbers?

What I try to say is that you make assumption X. Then you make conclusion X -> Y. But you never question is you assumption X even the right one.  Also you conclusion of Y leads to A. While you accept A to be result of Y, you don't accept A to be result of Y, if X isn't involved.

X = Shooter (fan)
Y = Sales number
A = Disapoinment

Modifié par Lumikki, 17 novembre 2010 - 02:40 .

[davidshooter]

Epic777 wrote...


Then my apologizes for jumping the gun on your post.
If that was their goal then they have more crazy than sheogorath+the mad hermit+paranoid incarnation (+1 rep for guessing the referenced games).  No halo game has sold 10 million,  Half life 2 didn't sell 10 million. There is no shooter this decade that has sold that much. If me2 sold that much, it would be the biggest RPG next to WOW and Pokemon.
Are you sure he didn't mean the combined sales of all releases?

No apology necessary.  I don't know what he meant for sure as it is an unatainable figure for most games at this point in time as you pointed  out  - but to be perfectly fair, he kind of acknowledges some of his hyperbole in the interview.  The number only makes sense to me if he is referring to cross platform sales.  So 360, PC, and eventually PS3.  I could see the figure being a reasonable goal if that's what he meant.  I think the overall gist is that he wants Bioware's games right up there in the top 10 along with Red Dead, Black Ops, Halo etc.

Modifié par davidshooter, 17 novembre 2010 - 02:29 .

[davidshooter]

Lumikki wrote...

Did they say shooter side is made for appealed more shooter fans or did they say they shooter side is appealed to more gamers? There is big difference here. People can make "wrong" assumption what it means.

I ask again, do you assume that Bioware is disapointment they ME1 sales numbers?

What I try to say is that you make assumption X. Then you make conclusion X -> Y. But you never question is you assumption X even the right one.  Also you conclusion of Y leads to A. While you accept A to be result of Y, you don't accept A to be result of Y, if X isn't involved.

I thought I covered these questions.

I wasn't following the pre-release press of ME1 so I don't really have any idea of what the expecation was.  It was also the first game in a series so there was nothing to really compare the sales to anyway.  As I said, when any game company releases a second game in a franchise the expectation is to increase the fan base.  This is why the game was also considered an "entry point into the series" by Bioware.

You seem to disagree that Bioware tried to make this game appealing to the shooter crowd as opposed to just more gamers in general, fair enough.  I think they specifically went after the shooter market while trying to retain all the essential RPG elements.  Regardless, I still maintain that not susbstantially increasing the sales over ME1 was a disappointment for the company from a sales perspective - I believe they are proud of their game however, and they should be.

Modifié par davidshooter, 17 novembre 2010 - 02:44 .

[Lumikki]

davidshooter wrote...

You seem to disagree that Bioware tried to make this game appealing to the shooter crowd as opposed to just more gamers in general, fair enough.  I think they specifically went after the shooter market while trying to retain all the essential RPG elements. 

Yep, because I believe there is more players in this world than just shooters and rgp players.  Yes, they redused RPG elements in ME2, but they did not increase any shooter elements, just improved how it worked. ME2 feels more shooter because redused the other elements (mostly mako driving). How ever, what is the correct balance in this kind of hybrid game is more like taste, there is't right answer.

My point ends, about 2 mill ME2 and about 2 mill ME1. What's you "profit" point, if you don't make assumptions what you did?
Meaning not everyone make same assumptions what you did, so they don't end with same conclusions.

Modifié par Lumikki, 17 novembre 2010 - 02:54 .

[Marzillius]

EA would never shut down BioWare. EA simply isn't that way anymore.

[Tony Gunslinger]

Slayer299 wrote...

The best numbers I've seen put them at;

Mass Effect 1 - 2.35 million units sold

Mass Effect 2 - 2.17 million units sold

Just to clarify, according to these pages:

http://gamrreview.vg...35/mass-effect/
http://gamrreview.vg.../mass-effect-2/

- ME1 sold 2.31 xbox units by the end of Week 155

- ME1 sold 1.88 xbox units by the end of Week 50

- ME2 sold 2.17 xbox units by the end of Week 42

[Dean_the_Young]

They made DLC for the game. More to the point, they made nice DLC for the game.



You don't do that for a game series you're losing money in. You cut your losses.

[StarcloudSWG]

Yeah, basically, ME 2 is selling considerably better than ME did over the same time period.

[MisterDyslexo]

Marzillius wrote...

EA would never shut down BioWare. EA simply isn't that way anymore.

I do hope that this is a failure on my part in my inability to translate sarcasm

[ScooterPie88]

I don't really see how it couldn't make a profit. It sold over 2 million in the first couple of weeks. Assume a price of between 50-60 dollars and you wind up with anywhere between 100-120 million dollars (and that is just in the first few weeks). Mass Effect may be big budget but I don't know of many games that are over 100 million (hell even most movies don't take that much to make).

[Slayer299]

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

The best numbers I've seen put them at;

Mass Effect 1 - 2.35 million units sold

Mass Effect 2 - 2.17 million units sold

Just to clarify, according to these pages:

http://gamrreview.vg...35/mass-effect/
http://gamrreview.vg.../mass-effect-2/

- ME1 sold 2.31 xbox units by the end of Week 155

- ME1 sold 1.88 xbox units by the end of Week 50

- ME2 sold 2.17 xbox units by the end of Week 42

I was looking at the total unit sales that are available to date for each title as a comparison. I really don't understand those numbers you gave though, what is their significance?


edit - formatting fix

Modifié par Slayer299, 19 novembre 2010 - 06:00 .

[Slayer299]

ScooterPie88 wrote...

I don't really see how it couldn't make a profit. It sold over 2 million in the first couple of weeks. Assume a price of between 50-60 dollars and you wind up with anywhere between 100-120 million dollars (and that is just in the first few weeks). Mass Effect may be big budget but I don't know of many games that are over 100 million (hell even most movies don't take that much to make).

But Bioware doesn't make $50-$60 dollars off each unit sold. I believe that they make around $8 per unit, although I'll have to check the numbers on that, but I do know it's a lot smaller than the price tag we're paying to buy it.

[MisterDyslexo]

Slayer299 wrote...

Tony Gunslinger wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

The best numbers I've seen put them at;

Mass Effect 1 - 2.35 million units sold

Mass Effect 2 - 2.17 million units sold

Just to clarify, according to these pages:

http://gamrreview.vg...35/mass-effect/
http://gamrreview.vg.../mass-effect-2/

- ME1 sold 2.31 xbox units by the end of Week 155

- ME1 sold 1.88 xbox units by the end of Week 50

- ME2 sold 2.17 xbox units by the end of Week 42

I was looking at the total unit sales that are available to date for each title as a comparison. I really don't understand those numbers you gave though, what is their significance?


edit - formatting fix

Its showing that ME2 is on a much faster pace than ME1, and 140,00 units behind
with a 113 week gap. There'd have to be only 1240 copies of ME2 sold
every week to be where Mass Effect 1 was at that point. I'm guessing it
won't take nearly that long, especially when ME2 gets named GOTY in
practically everything

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 19 novembre 2010 - 06:05 .

[Tony Gunslinger]

Yeah, basically ME2's rate of sales is much higher than ME1, almost twice as much. It only took ME2 42 weeks to easily surpass what ME1 did in its first 50 weeks. That said, it shouldn't be a surprise if you consider xbox owner growth and the sequel factor. The chances of an ME1 owner buying ME2 is significantly higher than a fresh title, ensuring a guaranteed audience to begin with. This is why sequels in movies and games are all the rage these days. Now, something like CoD:MW2 already had a prebuilt audience, and it's in the most popular and accessible genre (multiplayer FPS). Adding buzz and critical accclaim, it's not a big surprise that that game sold a whopping 11+ million in its first 50 weeks.

The RPG market currently doesn't have the same numbers as muliplayer FPS. What the RPG market does have is 1) low competition / ease of entry and 2) loyal customers to build fanbase and generate buzz. ME2 is a crosser, and it does it very well. So you can now see why BW wants to do a multiplayer game.

[hitorihanzo]

Well, I read somewhere that ME2 sold very well. Take this into consideration. SWTOR, BioWare's upcoming MMO is considered BioWare's most expensive project ever. Their budget was $150 million. ME2 didn't cost anywhere near that amount to produce. So if even the modest sales figures are correct, ME2 was very successful for EA and BioWare.



Someone's earlier statement was correct however. If SWTOR fails, BioWare is going to take a HUGE financial loss. It kinda makes me mad that they are risking so much on the fate of one game, especially seeing as the MMO genre is the most fickle and demanding.

[Lowenhart]

Busomjack wrote...

I've heard that EA has been losing money and it's making me fear that maybe Mass Effect 2 was a financial failure despite it's critical acclaim.
EA has improved it's reputation over the years but many people still are very bitter about how EA closed down Westwood Studios and I fear that maybe they'll do the same to Bioware if their games don't sell well enough.

Dont you think that might have more to do with the huge amount of money they pouring into SWTOR you misread as having something to do with ME2?

Modifié par Lowenhart, 19 novembre 2010 - 03:50 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

Raanz wrote...

This is all pure guess work, but "usually", games that have over 1 million units sold are considered a financial success (depending on cost to produce). I would say that if ME2 cost more then 30-40 million to make, it was too much. Usually that money is fronted, in part, by the publisher, who then recoups it's expense plus some back-end money and the developing house gets a portion.

I'm thinking they made plenty of profit on ME2, ME1, and DA.

I would be astonished if ME2 did not cost more than 30-40 million, albeit 40 million would be less so. Final Fantasy X held an estimated exceeding 32.5 million to develop and this was back in 2001. I suppose the possibility of costs being higher back than due to new technology is plausible. All the same, I would estimate ME2 being at least 50 million. Of course that is mere guesswork on my part.

Nonetheless, EA has to be making a profit or we would have heard about it. Has no one seen the disaster Square Enix is entangled in with the lackluster initial sales of FFXIII and the colossal failure that was FFXIV, which has yet to tp even a million? The gaming media would be all over Bioware and EA if this franchise was not a financial success.

[OneDrunkMonk]

I just hope ME3 doesn't completely downgrade to a simple run 'n gun just because games like Call of Duty are selling so well.

[StarcloudSWG]

Bioware is putting in some money for the development of SW:TOR but they're definitely NOT the only ones.. keep in mind, LucasArts is backing the project as well.
IF and we don't know this yet, IF SW:TOR loses money for Bioware, odds are they will downsize the SW:TOR team and possibly spin off the MMORPG studio into its own group, then sell the group to LucasArts.

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 19 novembre 2010 - 09:57 .

[CroGamer002]

Let's not forget that ME2 is coming on PS3 next year.

[CroGamer002]

OneDrunkMonk wrote...

I just hope ME3 doesn't completely downgrade to a simple run 'n gun just because games like Call of Duty are selling so well.

Unless they turn ME3 into FPS, we don't have to worry about that.

Modifié par Mesina2, 19 novembre 2010 - 10:00 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

ME2 did just fine. Not the numbers they wanted (5 million) but niche titles don't generally do 5 million during a global recession. What's hurt EA is them having to cancel NBA Elite, and the Medal of Honor reboot ending up being a fairly mediocre game.



I will speculate though that the industry itself could very well be on its way to another mid 80's crash the way its currently going.

[CroGamer002]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

ME2 did just fine. Not the numbers they wanted (5 million) but niche titles don't generally do 5 million during a global recession. What's hurt EA is them having to cancel NBA Elite, and the Medal of Honor reboot ending up being a fairly mediocre game.

I will speculate though that the industry itself could very well be on its way to another mid 80's crash the way its currently going.

I doubt it.
EA just failed with rushing MoH and as much as I like that game, that game is failure just because EA rushed it to make it before Black Ops.

[OneDrunkMonk]

You know if you can do something with artistic merit and turn a profit, even if small, then it's all win. God help us if all games were either military FPS or GTA.

[pacer90]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

ME2 did just fine. Not the numbers they wanted (5 million) but niche titles don't generally do 5 million during a global recession. What's hurt EA is them having to cancel NBA Elite, and the Medal of Honor reboot ending up being a fairly mediocre game.

I will speculate though that the industry itself could very well be on its way to another mid 80's crash the way its currently going.

And their startup EA MMA series selling like... 45k copies. ME was NEVER going to sell 5mil copies, even though it really deserves to.