269 réponses à ce sujet

[Elite Midget]

Oh noes?! Some Aliens are just as racist as Cerberus?!? Blasphemy!

A-hem.

I constantly see misinformed users here unjustly label Ashley as a Racist or a bigot. Yet when I bring up the fact that Mordin is very racist against the Krogan people they get angry and claim that killing 999/1000 babies in their mothers wombs is for their own good despite the fact that current day Krogan were not even around for the First Genophage.

Here's example of Alien racism that gets ignored.

Turian Counciler - Generally hates humans and hounds Shepard throughout ME1 'because' he's a Human. No action is 'right' in his eyes unless Shepard is risking human lives to save his rear. Even makes racist and bias remarks against humans. Especially whenthe Rachnii Queen is brought up.
Volus in ME2 - Racist against Quarian girl. Accusses her for a crime she didn't commit because she's a Quarian. When proved innocent he shows no remorse and is generally unhappy that the Quarian girl wasent charged with a crime.
Quarians and Geth - They believed that all Geth were souless machines that must be enslaved or destroyed. Legion obviously contradicts such a racist and hate fueled mindset when the Geth merely defended themselves in the past against the Quarians. In fact, the Quarians blame the Geth for their current lifestyle and the Racism the Council Races have over the Quarian People.
Council Races and Quarians - They view the Quarians with distain and accuse them for many petty crimes that occur. If your wallet is missing or your customers aren't showing up anymore than it's a Quarian's fault. Not to mention that the Council Races are punishing present day Quarians for the Geth when they didn't even exist at the time. Quarian's are heavily restricted in colonization and are pretty much forced to stay on the Migrant Fleet by the Council Races. They face many restrictions and are treated like Second class Citizens just like the Krogan.
Council Races and all Non-Council Races - Lesser races are generally ignored and their problems are never considered if it ruins the status que or might endanger the Council Races. The VI in ME1 further backs this mindset but when asked why it said such a racist comment it mentions that it was programed to say it. For example, the Volus are considered lesser as a race compared to the Council Races and are treated as such on a constant basis. They're a joke to them pretty much.
Tali and Legion - Doesn't trust Legion and shares many of the racist tendencies that her race has over the Geth. Legion of course doesn't understand this as it believed what it was doing was the logical thing to do. Something that Tali would gladly do as well if she were in Legion's position. Shepard can tell them to stop fighting under his command or point out the Racism of Tali and the spying of Legion.
Mordin, as well as most Salarians, and the Krogan - Mordin believes the Krogans must always be under the effects of the Genophage. He doesn't believe they'll ever get past their savage tendencies, thus Genophage is the only awnser in his eyes, and must deal with 999/1000 dead babies every birth cycle. Not to mention that the thought of a smart Krogan is a laughable rarity to him. Okeer and Wrex contradict this of course. Obviously Mordin feels bad when he sees Krogan women sacrificing themselves in an attempt to save their race since he didn't believe that any Krogan would ever do such a selfless thing. Still doesn't change his stance of the Genophage, and that he's okay with a 999/1000 Baby Death rate each birth cycle, unless Shepard calls him out of the outright racism of the Genophage than pushes him to stop Generalizing all Krogan as Savage Beasts.
Council Races and Humans - When humans are attacked by the Geth or abducted by the Collectors they ignore their plight since it would prove 'troublesome' to them. This is exactly what Ashley ment in ME1 with the Dog and the Bear. Humanity is the Council's Dog and the Geth/Collectors are the Bear which the Dog has to fight on its own.

Than I've seen flatout lies that Ashley is somehow more racist than Cerberus.

Cerberus and Alien Races - Will use Aliens if it means helping their agenda or saving 'human lives'. Will never help Aliens without them gaining the upper hand in the end and enjoy the oppertunity of running experiments on Aliens as well as humans to push their ambitions. Their whole Agenda is making Humanity dominant and all Aliens bowing before themm or being eradicated.


Finally, Ashley hates Cerberus because she sees them as extremist terrorist and in ME1 she claims that the Terra Firma Party are a bunch of racist now and wants nothing to do with them. Mysteriously, no matter what you did with the Terra Firma Party in ME1 they have no mention in mE2. Most likely Bioware didn't want to make it more obvious that a Renegade Shepard could be Racist.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 15 novembre 2010 - 11:26 .

[Gundar3]

I agree... To an extent.

[Count Viceroy]

Kaidan said it pretty well. They are just people, like us.



Why would aliens be any more or less racist (specist) than humans?

[Elite Midget]

Yet they're held to a different standard. Ashley is somehow a racist when she mentions the Dog and the Bear thing yet Tali or Mordin 'can't' be racist for some strange reason.

[Count Viceroy]

Well they are aliens themselves. It has less of an impact with people I guess.

[AntiChri5]

You are wrong on several counts.

[Elite Midget]

That's nice of you to provide such a valid arguement as how I'm wrong about Alien's being just as racist as Cerberus! It was so well informed that my mind has been blown and I shall confess all my sins to the pure and non-racist Alien Overlords! /sarcasm

[Cyberfrog81]

Mordin isn't perfect. Neither is Ashley. Cerberus has "issues" as well, to put it mildly.



It's an imperfect universe, in and outside of the game.

[General User]

I kinda agree w/ Count Viceroy, human rascism gets more attention because WE are human. Planks and specks, so to speak.

[Elite Midget]

Doesn't matter if its imperfect. Racism is racism yet Users here laugh at Alien's being racist and don't believe it to be racism at all. Yet the Council Races have shown 'many' racist tendencies. So in a way I can see why the Alliance would still like having Cerberus around when they're faced with very racist Citadel Council.

[AntiChri5]

Your first statement is absurd.

"Aliens are as racist as Cerberus". This can only mean that all aliens are as racist as cerberus. You didn't say "some aliens are racist" or "aliens can be racist". You said "aliens are as racist as Cerberus.

[Elite Midget]

It's a technicality. I can edit it to say some if you feel it offensive in some way. Far easier to just say Aliens though since the Council Races and many of the Aliens you meet have shown racism and carry racist agenda's just like Cerberus.



Just like how it's easy to say Cerberus is racist. Maybe not all of them are but the ones that stand out are very racist and want human dominance thus they plant the image of racism for the organization.

[Count Viceroy]

Elite Midget wrote...

Just like how it's easy to say Cerberus is racist. Maybe not all of them are but the ones that stand out are very racist and want human dominance thus they plant the image of racism for the organization.

"Many join us out of simple xenophobia"
- Miranda Lawson.

[AntiChri5]

Cerberus is a small organisation (less then 200 people) with a stated pro-human agenda.

"Aliens" are a good ten different species with many many many tirllions of individuals.

And can you not see the inherent speciesm in the statement that "All non-humans are speciest"?

[ElectronicFerret]

[Elite Midget]

Perhaps, though the Council is supposed to represent all Alien life yet the Council itself is very racist and only cares about matters that effect them. Hence why they gave humanity the bird in ME2.



That's true that Miranda said that but she isn't a racist she just believes in humanity doing what is needed to stay relevant. However, those up the Cerberus chain are very racist though they aren't beyond using aliens if it helps them further their ambitions.

[HalfTangible]

A few of the things you mentioned can be attributed to environmental or political situations. Furthermore, in at least one case, you have to generalize one faction or another in order for it to be true. The Quarians, for example, have three seperate viewpoints on their admiralty board that you can learn on Tali's loyalty mission: Destroy the geth, Re-enslave the geth, or make peace with the geth. Yet you must assume that third faction does not exist for your statement to be true.



Tali/Legion thing - if the geth got that info, they would've attacked the migrant fleet. The fact that they are two separate races does not change that both of them are also national (so to speak) powers. Tali actually brings this up in the paragon option (well, starts to. Shepard finishes the thought)



The Genophage - Mordin mentions at one point that when he worked on the genophage, he and the other scientists had to be extremely careful not to completely sterilize the krogan. If Mordin hated Krogans, he would have WANTED the total sterilization of their race. Furthermore, the genophage keeps the Krogan population 'stable' (which i think means keeps it at it's current population size at all times, with environmental and social factors included in it's calculations)



Council and Humans - I attribute this to the council being politicians.

[AntiChri5]

Not to mention that the statement "Aliens are racist" also says that all undiscovered alien species are racist.

Do you want me go through your examples so i can point out what i disagree with and what is factually incorrect?

[Elite Midget]

You're taking too much into the Alien's are just as racist as Cerberus thing. I edited it since you want to ignore my other valid points and just keep pushing that.

Re-ensalving and destroying the Geth are based off hatred and racist tendencies. The one who wants Peace is on the minority said and is mocked about it.

Tali/Legion - Of course the Geth would be outraged. The Quarians were caturing Geth, torturing them, taking them apart, and were trying to enslave them again. Any race would be outraged over such experiments. Just like Aliens hate Cerberus for their experiments. Besides... Legion, logically, wanted to inform the rest of the Geth because such actions are an atrocity and endanger 'all' Geth. By not informing the Geth it means that Legion is endangering all Geth against the Quarian racist agenda. Tali would have gladly done the same thing as well.

Mordin/Krogan - It doesn't keep the race stable since it ignores outside factors such as the Krogan Homeworld and the many warring Krogan factions. The Krogan still fight eachother but this time they do it to obtain the precious few females that can give birth live children. Many Krogan resent being outcast and forgotten by the other races who had long since abandoned them. Mordin also sees it as okay to punish current day Krogan for the sins of their ancestors not to mention that he never factored him how the Genophage effects Krogan mentally. Which is why he's shocked that Krogan Women are willing to die to give birth to live children.

Council/Humans - Maybe, though it doesn't explain why they ignored humanity in ME2. Hell, they didn't even try to help the Alliance set up AA towers.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 15 novembre 2010 - 11:55 .

[AntiChri5]

You cannot state that quarians are racist, merely that some quarians are. The data we have suggests that a third of quarians are not.

Non-council races are not mistreated.

I have already explained to you why Mordin is not racist.

And the council is not scrambling to defend humanity because we can look afte ourselves. It is simple politics.

[Count Viceroy]

The whole bit about the geth has its roots in a much grittier argument about wether the geth are actually a sentient race or just runnaway machinery. It might be obvious from a third party at this stage, but for many quarians it might not be so clear.

[Elite Midget]

The Quarians as people 'are' racist against the Geth. Only a small minority tried to offer a different take on the matter but they're a minority and don't represent what most Quarians feel. Also, 1 important Quarians says they shouldn't wipe out or enslave the Geth and suddenly it's 1/3 of the Quarian people that believe that? That's simply untrue since his ideology is still in the minority and only started gaining ground when he got on the Council which hasen't changed much ever since. A Majority of the Quarians obviously don't agree with him hence why he's lambasted by the other two with no reprecussions and his supporters are far too view to do anything about it. After all, Peace with the Geth who ended up winning the war isn't a popular view at all.



I explained why Mordin is racist and only pushing by Shepard gets him to admit his racism against the Krogan and willingness to find a different path than just updating a baby killing virus for Krogan people again.



Non-Council races 'are' mistreated. The Volus are a perfect example. They have been around for a long time and they barely got that Diplomate situated in the Citadel. Than there's the fact that Council ignores the needs of the Volus people and the VI outright says that the Volus are part of the 'lesser races' and don't deserve a Council seat since they're 'lesser' and not up to the task. Which explains why the Volus are furious with how fast Humanity has come when it comes to the Council. Than there's the outright racism and bullying against the Quarian people that still goes on to this day.



Humanity was willing to risk many of their men and women in Uniform to help the Council in ME1. Yet that didn't change their stance and they don't even send any spectres to investigate the human abductions. Simply put, it's not worth their time or their money to care since it doesn't effect them at all. Had Turians, Asari, or Salarians started getting abducted you can bet your money they would care and would demand human aid as well.

[AdmiralCheez]

I find it funny that people get worked up about the politics of a fictitious universe. But the OP is right: compared to Cerberus and a few xenomorphic d*ckheads, Ashley is nothing. She came across as an overly-patriotic country bumpkin to me. Not so much racism as it was ignorance.



I also find it incredibly interesting how every single character brings their own pack of prejudices and misconceptions to the table. Even the most pure-hearted and level-headed of the bunch still make generalizations about others, just like real life. That's why science fiction is awesome: it parallels real life, pointing out things about ourselves that we never really think about.

[Elite Midget]

Nice observation.



I made this Topic because of the Double Standard that Aliens get when Racism is brought up. Somehow people believe that the Alien's can't be racist but humans can be.

[AntiChri5]

We are presented with three quarian leaders who expressly state their feelings on the geth situation.

This is the best data we have to speculate on how many quarians feel what. Qwib Qwib would not be in power without support, that is where the "third" comes from. A third is a significant minority.

What do you mean you explained why Mordin is a racist? You ranted about crap you made up in another tread and you could not refute my counterpoints.

The Volus get more representation then any other non council race. They are not only a willing client race of the turians but also have their own embassy. And in Ascension the human ambassador analyzes council decisions over centuries and is amazed at how little bias the council shows in their decisions. The non council races are not mistreated, and they cannot become council races because they cannot handle the aditional responsibilities. The volus do not even have any military at all.

Not even the alliance is doing much to help the Terminus colonies. Because they are in the Terminus and outside council and alliance territory.