269 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

You're amazingly good at creating situations that exist within your own mind, but less so at interpreting ones from the Mass Effect universe. If you're wondering why Mordin wanted to stop Maelon's research... it's because he was performing brutal experiments on humans, krogan and others, and was doing so for people whose stated agenda is galactic conquest. They'd wipe out all other krogan, then take on the galaxy.



Also, "lesser races" only refers to the amount of military power a species has accumulated; it can't serve to defend Citadel space as a whole if it can't even protect itself, and the volus are terrible at combat.

[Elite Midget]

It wasen't made up when it's there. o back to ME2 and argue for the Genophage and see how Mordin responds. Than go do his Loyalty Quest and see how surprised he is that Krogan are trying to cure the genophage and how he didn't factor how the Genophage mentally effectsall Krogan. Such as the Krogan Scout who gives up living since he's resend to never getting married or havign a child than there are the Krogan Women that willingly sacrifice themselves for research. None of these were factored in when they were developing the Second Genophage because the Salarians were 'sure' they knew how every Krogan acted and that they must be neutered, as a race, because they shall never change. Which, ironically, is proven wrong constantly in ME2.



The Volus are considered a part of the Lesser Races and have no say in Council decisions. If you played ME1 and talked to the VI guide you would learn that this is a fact that the Council believes in. Only certian races may be on the Council and the rest are 'Lesser races' that follow the Council as law. Also, again... Not mistreated? Did you forget about the Quarians?



Yeah, not mistreated. /sarcasm



The Alliance is building AA Towers and even sent the warhero Ashley Willians/Kaiden Alenko to investigate.

[Bebbe777]

ElectronicFerret wrote...

I'm sick of this Community and its anti-human bull...

[Elite Midget]

You're amazingly good at creating situations that exist within your own mind, but less so at interpreting ones from the Mass Effect universe. If you're wondering why Mordin wanted to stop Maelon's research... It's because Mordin believes that the Genophage is the only path and that those experiments conducted by Maelon's research are somehow more heinous than murdering 999/1000 baby Krogans every birth cycle.

Lesser races aren't just for military might. They're lesser races because they're 'seen' as lesser in the eyes of the Council. Besides, the Turians are the Military might of the Council. The Salarians and Asari don't have anywhere near as large of a fleet as the Turians. Hell, in ME1 on Virmire it is even mentioned that the Salarians aren't ment for battle and are geared more to stealth and diplomacy.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 16 novembre 2010 - 12:51 .

[Xilizhra]

Than go do his Loyalty Quest and see how surprised he is that Krogan are trying to cure the genophage and how he didn't factor how the Genophage mentally effectsall Krogan.

With you so far, although he was more saying how he couldn't plan for all of the mental effects.

Such as the Krogan Scout who gives up living since he's resend to never getting married or havign a child

Because, mind you, he was tricked into believing the Weyrloc wouldn't wipe out the other clans.

None of these were factored in when they were developing the Second Genophage because the Salarians were 'sure' they knew how every Krogan acted and that they must be neutered, as a race, because they shall never change.

Ah, here's where we crash and burn. The genophage wasn't unleashed because the salarians believed the krogan could never change; it was released because at that moment, the krogan were trying to conquer the galaxy and couldn't be stopped any other way, except by complete genocide. If the krogan culture did advance to the point of less violence, I believe that the salarians could accept the cure of the genophage; mind you, there's one factor that the krogan can't change, and that's their extremely robust physiology combined with a prodigiously high birthrate. Having them exist naturally without population crises would be an enormous challenge.

The Volus are considered a part of the Lesser Races and have no say in Council decisions. If you played ME1 and talked to the VI guide you would learn that this is a fact that the Council believes in. Only certian races may be on the Council and the rest are 'Lesser races' that follow the Council as law. Also, again... Not mistreated? Did you forget about the Quarians?

They're not inherently lesser; all it means is that they're not as militarily powerful. I will admit that the stuff with the quarians isn't exactly right, and that the Council is imperfect; getting past the quarians' creation of a race of murderous self-spawning AI must be tricky.

[Xilizhra]

It's because Mordin believes that the Genophage is the only path and that those experiments conducted by Maelon's research are somehow more heinous than murdering 999/1000 baby Krogans every birth cycle.

Also that the Weyrloc are trying to conquer the galaxy. That might have something to do with it too.

[Sajuro]

 Why does no one get it that the Terminus systems are called the Terminus Systems for a reason? The humans decided to settle outside the Council's sphere of influence and thus they can't just go back crying to the council or the Alliance if they get attacked by someone because the most likely reaction would be to say "You wanted to live far away from us, ok? Now run back home while we take care of our citizens." Also for Eden Prime, it was on the brink of Council Space and the Turian Councilor (?)said that humans should think twice before settling such hostile areas.
Even on Horizon that mechanic was all pissy because the Alliance was helping them to install GARDIAN Lasers, you know the ones that Shepard used to drive off the collectors.
There are Alien racists also, most of the Volus in ME2 are either criminals, perverts, or stock traders. The Quarians hate the Geth and I tell Tali off when I get the chance even though I romance her everytime, just like I call Ashley out on her remarks over the course of the first game and even when she suggested teasing Liara. The Asari hate purebloods, that Asari at the map stand hates all of the Aliens out of hate about what happened to her mate and daughters. Some Krogan hate Salarians and Turians (rightfully so in a sense, but still), and Humans. All races hate the Vorcha (Except for the vorcha and yahg, well maybe they still hate the vorcha). A lot of Batarians hate Humans just like a lot of Humans hate Batarians. There are probably Salarians who hate Krogan, but Mordin isn't one of them.
The difference between Aliens and Cerberus is that Cerb is dominated by Xenophobics and that most of your crew was hand picked for Cerberus to clean house of all the little alien lovers. and Cerb has a track record of torturing and subsequently screwing the pooch.
In short, that Turian who said all humans are racist... is racist
That Volus on the Citadel is a racist
Not all Aliens are Racists, nor are all Humans racist.
We should all just get along because we are all in the same boat
... except those goddamn Vorcha.

[Sajuro]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's because Mordin believes that the Genophage is the only path and that those experiments conducted by Maelon's research are somehow more heinous than murdering 999/1000 baby Krogans every birth cycle.

Also that the Weyrloc are trying to conquer the galaxy. That might have something to do with it too.

Didn't the Weyrloc leader say something riding a sea of blood across the Galaxy?

[AntiChri5]

It wasen't made up when it's there. o back to ME2 and argue for the Genophage and see how Mordin responds. Than go do his Loyalty Quest and see how surprised he is that Krogan are trying to cure the genophage and how he didn't factor how the Genophage mentally effectsall Krogan. Such as the Krogan Scout who gives up living since he's resend to never getting married or havign a child than there are the Krogan Women that willingly sacrifice themselves for research. None of these were factored in when they were developing the Second Genophage because the Salarians were 'sure' they knew how every Krogan acted and that they must be neutered, as a race, because they shall never change. Which, ironically, is proven wrong constantly in ME2.

For the last *** time the Krogan are not neutered! A species that can reproduce is not neutered! I have explained this to you five *** times now. If Mordin and the salarians hated the krogan and saw no potential in them then they would have simpky sterilised them. They would have actually nuetered them. But they did not. They worked extra hard to make sure they didn't. Wrex himself says in ME 1 that the genophage is not what is killing the krogan, it is krogan culture that insists on going to war without any children that is doing it.

The Volus are considered a part of the Lesser Races and have no say in Council decisions. If you played ME1 and talked to the VI guide you would learn that this is a fact that the Council believes in. Only certian races may be on the Council and the rest are 'Lesser races' that follow the Council as law. Also, again... Not mistreated? Did you forget about the Quarians?

The volus happily decided to become protected client race of the turians. Added to that they have an ambassador to the citadel. They do have representation and they can affet policy. If a race cannot contribute in certain ways (including mitary) then they cannot be on the council. This is why Avina refers to them as "lesser races", because they have less. That does not mean they are considered to be less. You cannot base your entire opinion of galactic politics on one line a tour guide said one time and ignore every thing else.
The quarians are not represented by the council. They are like the batarians.

The Alliance is building AA Towers and even sent the warhero Ashley Willians/Kaiden Alenko to investigate.

Do you have any idea of the resources the alliance have? One turret and one soldier is a token effort. They are actually trying to investigate Cerberus.

Modifié par Pacifien, 16 novembre 2010 - 02:07 .

[Xilizhra]

Yep. He's a nutcase, although one could quite possibly say that he's just an ambitious krogan.

[Elite Midget]

If they weren't 'lesser' than why was it outright stated as so in ME1? Not to mention how angry the Volus Diplomate is during ME1 since he was ignored constantly by the Council. There's a reason why the Volus gladly votes for the humans when you let the Council die. They treated the Volus like second class citizens and the Volus don't miss them when they're gone.



Weyrloc conquering the Galaxy wasen't discovered untill halfway through his loyalty mission. Mordin believe they had kidnapped his old partner when infact he purposely went to aid the Krogan. Thus it isn't a valid excuse for why Mordin was so hellbent on keeping a 999/1000 baby death rate on the Krogan race.



Many of the current day Krogan don't care about domination. They just want to exist and be considered more than trophies of a dieing race. Besides, Weyrloc desires to conquer the land 'because' they want to punish the other races for dooming their race and murdering their children on a constant basis.



If Mordin truely saw the Krogan as more than just savages than why doesn't he support changeing the Genophage to effect PREGNANCY RATES instead of a virus that kills babies in the womb?



I'll tell you why he doesn't care. It requires too much work and 999/1000 dead baby Krogans is the same as 1/1000 chance of pregnancy to him.

[Xilizhra]

If they weren't 'lesser' than why was it outright stated as so in ME1? Not to mention how angry the Volus Diplomate is during ME1 since he was ignored constantly by the Council. There's a reason why the Volus gladly votes for the humans when you let the Council die. They treated the Volus like second class citizens and the Volus don't miss them when they're gone.

It's stated by the elcor diplomat; the volus diplomat is a whiny, pessimistic dick. Also, the all-human council has to bribe the volus for votes.

Weyrloc conquering the Galaxy wasen't discovered untill halfway through his loyalty mission. Mordin believe they had kidnapped his old partner when infact he purposely went to aid the Krogan. Thus it isn't a valid excuse for why Mordin was so hellbent on keeping a 999/1000 baby death rate on the Krogan race.

Uh, I think maybe he just wanted to rescue his kidnapped student. When the mission started, no one knew about the genophage cure.

Many of the current day Krogan don't care about domination. They just want to exist and be considered more than trophies of a dieing race. Besides, Weyrloc desires to conquer the land 'because' they want to punish the other races for dooming their race and murdering their children on a constant basis.

That doesn't make Weyrloc any less dangerous. And I, personally, saved the genophage cure data.

I'll tell you why he doesn't care. It requires too much work and 999/1000 dead baby Krogans is the same as 1/1000 chance of pregnancy to him.

Well... yeah. Also note that "too much work" means "less time for us to save ourselves from the endless hordes smashing into our doorstep."

[AntiChri5]

A retarded vi described them as "lesser races". I explained how that can mean that they have less, not are less. And you just contradicted yourself! How can Volus vote and affect policy yet not have a say and have no power at all? Everything the angry Volus diplomat says is adressed by the calm Elcor diplomat. He is just one angry guy and pretty damn racist. He hates humans, remember?



I am done discussing Mordin and the revised genophage. You flat out refuse to listen to what is in the game in stead of what is going on in your head. Pay attention to what is in the damn game.

[Elite Midget]

I will ignore your cursing section since obviously you're going through a rough patch. Thus I will ignore that arguement since it isn't rational in the least.



They're lesser races becausae they are 'lesser' than the Council Races. This is a fact. The VI was PROGRAMMED to state ths fact. The Volus are seond class citizens thus it's no wonder that they applaude the destruction of the old racist Council and are rewarded for it by the Renegade Council.



In ME2 They're called 'AA TOWERS'. Notice the s at the end? It means there is more than one Tower. Also, do you think only one person built all those towers? It also showed that the Towers were more than enough since they visibilly damaged the Collector Ship and forced it to retreat. There's a reason, after all, as to why the Collectors attacked before the AA TOWERS, notice the s at the end?, were active.



Also, the Quarians 'are' a part of the Citadel Races. They even had an embassy but that was removed when the Quarians requested help against the Geth. The Quarian people are still expected to follow Citadel law. Thus they're 'NOTHING' like the Batarians. Sounds like someone didn't pay attention to the Quarian vs Geth conflict.

[General User]

For the genophage, I think the racism come in when the Council races at the time decided it was the Krogan’s physiological characteristics what made them somehow incompatible with wider galactic society, instead of their leadership, or even their culture.



Whenever on race, or group of races, decides another is genetically incapable of coexistence, and takes steps to correct the “defect” it smacks of racism.

[Xilizhra]

Considering the inborn rage that affects all krogan, as seen in Grunt's loyalty mission, I'm not completely sure how wrong that opinion is (not that I've seen it explicitly stated anywhere).

[General User]

Oh, no! The opinion: “the krogan are innately incompatible with our society due to their genetic characteristics” is probably correct!

But conclusion the Council reached from that fact: deciding to change the krogan instead of Council society, is morally repugnant.

Quick question: Was the Council winning or losing the war when they decided to use the genophage?

Modifié par General User, 16 novembre 2010 - 01:33 .

[AntiChri5]

I will ignore your cursing section since obviously you're going through a rough patch. Thus I will ignore that arguement since it isn't rational in the least.

In other words, you are latching on to my frustration at having to explain something very simple to you five times as an excuse to avoid admitting being wrong.

They're lesser races becausae they are 'lesser' than the Council Races. This is a fact. The VI was PROGRAMMED to state ths fact. The Volus are seond class citizens thus it's no wonder that they applaude the destruction of the old racist Council and are rewarded for it by the Renegade Council.

Nothing you say here in any way refutes the points i have made. The evidence from Ascension and the volus representation. Adress my counterpoints, rather then constantly repeating arguments i have dealt with.

In ME2 They're called 'AA TOWERS'. Notice the s at the end? It means there is more than one Tower. Also, do you think only one person built all those towers? It also showed that the Towers were more than enough since they visibilly damaged the Collector Ship and forced it to retreat. There's a reason, after all, as to why the Collectors attacked before the AA TOWERS, notice the s at the end?, were active.

Way to completely miss my point.

Also, the Quarians 'are' a part of the Citadel Races. They even had an embassy but that was removed when the Quarians requested help against the Geth. The Quarian people are still expected to follow Citadel law. Thus they're 'NOTHING' like the Batarians. Sounds like someone didn't pay attention to the Quarian vs Geth conflict.

The quarians were a Citadel race. Were. That ended when they broke Council law by accidentally creating an army of AI.

Quarians do not follow citadel law when they are not in citadel space.

They are no longer a council race, you cannot use their current treatment as an example of how the Council treat the council races.

[Elite Midget]

The opinion is wrong since it generalizes all Krogan as such. After the Loyalty Mission you can see how much Grunt has changed in that he doesn't feel the urge to destroy or conquer and instead he feels more at peace and accepted as a Krogan.



Besides, it's puberty. Many human men also acts more violent during that time and start feeling the 'alpha male' urges. Thus the need get stronger, push aside the competition, and to play 'extreme' sports to ward off their aggression.



Should the Council neuter humanity as well because they go through puberty too? I mean, Humanity is growing alarmingly powerful in such a short time just like the Krogan were. Though humans are just being smarter about it.

[Xilizhra]

But conclusion the Council reached from that fact: deciding to change the krogan instead of Council society, is morally repugnant.

How would you change Council society to meet that, then?

Quick question: Was the Council winning or losing the war when they decided to use the genophage?

Losing, or at least knowing that it would be placed in a losing position very soon.

[ReiSilver]

yeah you're trying to equate certain alien individuals and groups that have some hazy points and some racist tendencies to an organisation that's sole purpose is to put humanity at the top of a galactic empire no matter the cost to other aliens (or even humans themselves).

For the Turian councillor we don't know he hates all humans, we can guess that he might, or he might just hate Shepard and is off-put by Humans rising in power so quickly, he's overly critical because humans haven't they had the years of galactic experience the other races have but they want to push and shove their way to the top anyway

I agree with Xilizhra especially on the genophage, Mordin says plenty of things to praise the Krogan as well as put them down, he's also open to changing his opinions as new data becomes available, even being willing to keep the genophage cure. He has his issues but comparing him to Cerberus is going too far.

I'm sure there are some alien groups that are like Cerberus (wanting to put their own race on top) but we haven't met them yet.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here exactly, the games have shown that aliens aren't perfect, some of them are/can be argued as racist, they have flaws, but they're not a hive mind and they're not an organisation with a unified goal and I haven't seen any posters going around saying aliens are so much better than humans.

[AntiChri5]

Oh, no! The opinion: “the krogan are innately incompatible with our society due to their genetic characteristics” is probably correct!







But conclusion the Council reached from that fact: deciding to change the krogan instead of their society, is morally repugnant.







Quick question: Was the Council winning or losing the war when they decided to use the genophage?

And what is your solution?

To wipe them out?

The salarians greatly wronged the krogan by uplifting them, Mordin points this out.

The krogan rebellions were a natural result of that uplifting.

[Xilizhra]

The opinion is wrong since it generalizes all Krogan as such. After the Loyalty Mission you can see how much Grunt has changed in that he doesn't feel the urge to destroy or conquer and instead he feels more at peace and accepted as a Krogan.

Erm, no. If you actually talk to him, his destructive urges are just as strong as ever; Shepard gets a chance to call him on it. The only difference is that Grunt enjoys them and accepts them as a part of himself now.

[Skilled Seeker]

ElectronicFerret wrote...

It was only a matter of time...

[Skilled Seeker]

Xilizhra wrote...

The opinion is wrong since it generalizes all Krogan as such. After the Loyalty Mission you can see how much Grunt has changed in that he doesn't feel the urge to destroy or conquer and instead he feels more at peace and accepted as a Krogan.

Erm, no. If you actually talk to him, his destructive urges are just as strong as ever; Shepard gets a chance to call him on it. The only difference is that Grunt enjoys them and accepts them as a part of himself now.

Yeah I actually felt Grunt became more dangerous and unstable after his loyalty mission because of this.