269 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Elite Midget wrote...

Some users here wrongly claim, in their blissful ignorance, that Ashley is a racist and must die. Yet when I give examples of Aliens being racist to other races, especially against the Quarians, Krogan, and Volus, some users here laugh at it and don't demand for blood.

Well, Ashley claims, in her blissful ignorance, that Cerberus are terrorists, can't be trusted and must die, so it's kinda fair (and ironic) she gets this very same sort of treatment from alien-lovers.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 novembre 2010 - 11:41 .

[Elite Midget]

Considering that all she knows about Cerberus is that they're a racist organization that conflicts with the Alliance it's a fair assumption. Especially since she has no way of getting the info that would prove contrary to what she believe. I personally don't see TIM trying to cast a different outlook for Cerberus or trying to clera any ignorance if the statement was false.



However, in ME1 if you talk to Ashley at all, meet the Terra Firma Group, or encounter anything Cerberus cells than it would be easy to see that she's no racist. It's simply User laziness to state that she's racist since they have no excuse as to not getting the information since it appears constantly and in more than one instance.

[AntiChri5]

Elite Midget wrote...

I'm here to remind you that some of you are missing the point of this Topic.

Some users here wrongly claim, in their blissful ignorance, that Ashley is a racist and must die. Yet when I give examples of Aliens being racist to other races, especially against the Quarians, Krogan, and Volus, some users here laugh at it and don't demand for blood.

That is why this thread is called "The Alien Double Standard".

It's because some users here have no problem labeling humans as racist, such as wrongly stateing through ignorance that Ashley is a racist, yet for some reason they refuse to believe Aliens can be just as racist, if not more so than some extremist humans, as well as outright ignoring the racism of Aliens when encountered.

As for the Lesser comment made in ME1. If I were a Volus and a VI told me that my race was Lesser I would be furious and demanding action against the racist comment programmed, by Citadel Protocols, into the VI.

No-one in the thread has disputed that non humans are capable of racism, and there are examples of it in game.

Only a few have made the claim that Ash is a racist.

The problem is with the awful examples you keep trying to use.

[Elite Midget]

Aweful to you maybe while prefectly reasonable and accurate to me.

[Zulu_DFA]

Elite Midget wrote...

Considering that all she knows about Cerberus is that they're a racist organization that conflicts with the Alliance it's a fair assumption. Especially since she has no way of getting the info that would prove contrary to what she believe. I personally don't see TIM trying to cast a different outlook for Cerberus or trying to clera any ignorance if the statement was false.

Cerberus not trying to PR itself doesn't make Ashley's PoV any less of blissful ignorance. In any case, she could have reserved her judgement, for the old times sake. Or for the sake of Shepard's rank (even though he's AWOL), if she plays such a good soldier.

[Xilizhra]

Has it ever seemed problematic that you're the only one they seem perfectly reasonable and accurate to?

[Elite Midget]

Ashley thought Shepard was dead for two years so I would be suspicious too if Shepard appeared out of nowhere and is serving Ceberus whom is her enemy. Kaiden as well believes that Shepard is under the control of Cerberus but I never see any outcrys or false claims of racism against him. Than again, many Shepards killed him off because they saw him as dull. Personally he was my bro I could count on and than died to stop Saren.



Oh no, others can be reasonable too when they don't ignore the racism of aliens because the racism is needed for the benefit of others.

[mander83]

Elite Midget wrote...

Kaiden as well believes that Shepard is under the control of Cerberus but I never see any outcrys or false claims of racism against him. Than again, many Shepards killed him off because they saw him as dull. Personally he was my bro I could count on and than died to stop Saren.

Why in the world would anyone call Kaidan a racist? Nothing he has ever said or done would lead one to think that (unless "renegade" Kaidan does...I wouldn't know). I don't think Ashley is a racist but I understand why some people could think that way. I think she makes her comments more out of ignorance than some deep seeded hatred of aliens.

...but really. Even people who didn't like Kaidan have no reason to say he's a racist. He likes aliens well enough and hates Cerberus- how would anyone possibly think that he was racist? Ashley has made some comments that weren't so politically correct...so you can see why people might think that.

That said...I think aliens are just as capable of racism as anyone else. We see examples of this in game. The reason Ashley gets ragged on more for her comments? She's a squadmate. We have more interaction with her.

[LordPennlocke]

Elite Midget wrote...

Kaiden as well believes that Shepard is under the control of Cerberus but I never see any outcrys or false claims of racism against him.

Because Kaidan does not possess the mistrust of aliens that Ashley has.

Modifié par LordPennlocke, 17 novembre 2010 - 12:26 .

[_purifico_]

Xilizhra wrote...

Have you been listening to anything anyone else has been saying here? Honestly?

Nope, he can't hear us over the sound of his self-importance.

Modifié par _purifico_, 17 novembre 2010 - 12:27 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

Has it ever seemed problematic that you're the only one they seem perfectly reasonable and accurate to?

I don't see why, given that Midget isn't the only one.

Then again, Garrus rather threw away all the individuality and self-respect needed to even think about questioning Shepard's actions, while Tali devolved into fangril mode regardless of Shepard, and those two are generally considered reasonable...

[Dean_the_Young]

Depends on how you take some of his renegaded lines.

[Elite Midget]

Ashley never says that she outright hates Alien's either.

Mordin outbright belittles Krogan as a people.
Tali outright says that she hates the Geth and doesn't trust any of them even after getting Legion.

They're considered reasonable and not racist yet Ashley must be a racist it seems.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 17 novembre 2010 - 12:40 .

[Exile Isan]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Then again, Garrus rather threw away all the individuality and self-respect needed to even think about questioning Shepard's actions, while Tali devolved into fangril mode regardless of Shepard, and those two are generally considered reasonable...

Garrus states his opinion on matters quite clearly in several instances, and usually my Shep agrees with him. And I don't know my Shep and Tali fought quite alot about the Geth in ME2, just like they did in ME1.

[Elite Midget]

My Paragon Shepard is saddened when he meets Garrus. It seems that Paragon talks ment nothing since in the end Garrus decided to take the Law into his own hands again. Such as killing criminals instead of bringing them to justice the right way. Sure he rejoined C-Sec but left soon after and becomes Archangel.



At least it shows that no matter what you do Garrus will always have his own views on how he goes things even if they disagree with what Shepard wanted for his future.

[Nightwriter]

As if it was any secret that racism is an organic phenomenon and not just a human one.

I'm not really sure how accusing others of racism is somehow a defense for Ashley, but I am sure you hurt her cause the more you call Mordin a racist. Even Ashley wouldn't call Mordin a racist.

I'm almost half-expecting the real Ashley fans to come via strike team and chloroform you and drag you off before you do more damage to their interests. Alpha team to squadron two. Alpha, we are a go, eagle is in sight, eagle is in sight.

[Elite Midget]

mrsph wrote...

Mordin never belittles the krogan.

Do you honestly expect Tali to trust Legion after 300 years of warring and junk? Hell, even my own Shepard doesn't trust Legion 100%.

Yes Mordin does. From insulting their intelligence to stateing that the Genophage is the only path while not promoting any other measure or demanding Salarians take responsibility and stop making racist Generalizations against the Krogan. Which he would never do since he shares all of those racist Generalizations.

I expected Tali to put her hate and racism aside and trust her Commanding Officer. Instead she causes problems with Legion and expects Legion to not send Data to the Geth that might end up with the Quarians causing them much harm and destruction. Had Tali been given the choice she would have given the Quarians any data she could to be used to protect her people.

Tali seems to enjoy ignoring the fact thta the Geth only defended themselves and haven't even tried to wipe out the Quarian race which they could easily do. Hell, Legion still affectionately refers to them as the Creators.

[mander83]

Elite Midget wrote...

Ashley never says that she outright hates Alien's either.

Mordin outbright belittles Krogan as a people.
Tali outright says that she hates the Geth and doesn't trust any of them even after getting Legion.

They're considered reasonable and not racist yet Ashley must be a racist it seems.

Tali and the Quarians have a reason to hate the Geth. They are the reason they had to leave their home world (even if it was the Quarians who created them in the first place). I know I personally didn't have any sympathy for the Geth until Legion in ME2. Why would anyone? How many Quarians have encountered anything but Heretic Geth? In my game Tali was actually pretty reasonable with Legion at the end- offering him information that wasn't super critical.

I don't think Mordin's views are as black and white as you're making them. I always had the impression that while he thought the genophage was the right decision (and there are many reasons why this could be true) he kind of wished it didn't have to be that way. He certainly doesn't appear to delight in the misfortune of the Krogan. He genuinely believes it was the only way to stop the Krogan from killing everyone else.

Ashley applies her mistrust of aliens to anyone who isn't human. Tali and Mordin both have issues with one other group of aliens and with good reason. They don't go around hating on the Asari or the Turians. There is a difference there.

[Elite Midget]

Nightwriter wrote...

As if it was any secret that racism is an organic phenomenon and not just a human one.

I'm not really sure how accusing others of racism is somehow a defense for Ashley, but I am sure you hurt her cause the more you call Mordin a racist. Even Ashley wouldn't call Mordin a racist.

I'm almost half-expecting the real Ashley fans to come via strike team and chloroform you and drag you off before you do more damage to their interests. Alpha team to squadron two. Alpha, we are a go, eagle is in sight, eagle is in sight.

I already offered a Valid and factual defense for Ashley that doesn't include the mention of Alien Racism. Such as her hate of Terra Firma and Cerberus 'because' they're racist. You obviously didn't read this thread title. It's called the 'ALIEN DOUBLE STANDARD'. It's here because some users are unable to accept that Aliens can be just as racist as Cerberus and when confronted with racism, from Tali and Mordin, they brush it off as necessary or 'reasonable'.

Racism is racism, that's a fact.

[Elite Midget]

That's untrue. Ashley doesn't exclude humans when she shows distrust. Her reaction to Terra Firma and Cerberus is proof of this undeniable fact.



Tali generalized the Geth as such and even after fighting side by side with Legion she refused to let go of her Racist tendencies or to TRUST her Commanding Officer. I will say it again, Tali would have done the exact same thing and wouldn't have relented as easily as Legion did. What he did wasn't out of malious since he generally believed it was the logical choice to protect the Geth. While Tali in the past has done many things to help the Quarians and destroy many Geth. So had no ight to guilt trip Legion or offer such venom to him.



The first Genophage was needed because the Salarians failed the Krogan. The second Genophage was only used because they wanted to maintain the status que and pure laziness. Had the Salarians cared and didn't hold racist basis for the Krogan than why is the Genophage the only way? Why do they refuse to cultutally aid the Krogan and help tame that rage that many of them had? Why do they not modify the Genophage to effect Pregnancy rates instead of enjoying the sites of 999/1000 dead baby Krogans each birth cycle?

[Elite Midget]

Yet ironically none of those simulations seemed to involve reducing aggression or modifying the Genophage from Baby Killing Virus. Funny, huh? If Modern Day man has ways to curb aggression in Humans than why can't the 'genius' Salarians do the same for the Krogan? They've shown that they can basically serilize a whole species. Aggression management shouldn't be farfetched for them.



Tali's reaction and bias is what sold the racism. Why didn't she go to Shepard about this instead of immediatly believing Legion was a traitor and try to destroy him? Instead when Shepard learns of it she's about to attack him and only shows remorse when Shepard points out her outright racism while shaming Legion for going behind his back to try and protect the Geth from the Quarians Genocide Mandate.

[mander83]

Elite Midget wrote...

That's untrue. Ashley doesn't exclude humans when she shows distrust. Her reaction to Terra Firma and Cerberus is proof of this undeniable fact.

For my part, I don't think Ashley is racist. I can see why others think that though. Not liking Terra Firma or Cerberus doesn't really change anything. People who say she is a racist do so because of comments she made regarding other alien species. She doesn't trust any of them. She doesn't like that Garrus, Tali, Liara, and Wrex are on board. She has no reason not to trust them but she still doesn't. I'm quite sure that there are people here on planet Earth that are racist but still don't support the extreme methods of some groups. 

Tali generalized the Geth as such and even after fighting side by side with Legion she refused to let go of her Racist tendencies or to TRUST her Commanding Officer. I will say it again, Tali would have done the exact same thing and wouldn't have relented as easily as Legion did. What he did wasn't out of malious since he generally believed it was the logical choice to protect the Geth. While Tali in the past has done many things to help the Quarians and destroy many Geth. So had no ight to guilt trip Legion or offer such venom to him.

Tali and Legion clearly have issues. It makes sense that Legion would want to share that information and it makes sense that Tali wouldn't want it shared- neither is necessarily in the wrong here. In my game Shepard tells them both to knock it off. They both listen. Tali thanks Legion for promising to not share anymore information and then gives him some non-classified information. To me, that shows that Tali is willing to try and make peace (not to mention it shows that she trusts Shepard).

The first Genophage was needed because the Salarians failed the Krogan. The second Genophage was only used because they wanted to maintain the status que and pure laziness. Had the Salarians cared and didn't hold racist basis for the Krogan than why is the Genophage the only way? Why do they refuse to cultutally aid the Krogan and help tame that rage that many of them had? Why do they not modify the Genophage to effect Pregnancy rates instead of enjoying the sites of 999/1000 dead baby Krogans each birth cycle?

The Krogan were killing and destroying at an insane rate. With their birth rate there was no stopping them. Racists generally inherently dislike the people of a different race- I don't see that in Mordin. I see that he logically thinks the genophage was the only answer. It was either the Krogan or everyone else. I don't think that makes him a racist. If he and the Salarians were truly racist why not just exterminate the entire Krogan race? Why let them linger on with 1 in 1000 births? It would have been simple to do.