204 réponses à ce sujet

[KLUME777]

kr33g0r wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

kr33g0r wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

Because if half your PC audience pirated the game, your losing money! Its not profitable to release on PC! (for that particular game). Most people would buy it on console, therefore the company gets paid for its hard work.

I know that my dad, who had been a long time PC gamer, got so sick of crap like
 -Upgrading his computer for every new game
 -Anti-piracy stuff like DRM

just bought a PS3 a few months ago, because its easier.

So how come CD Projekt (Sorry to bring them up again) sold around 1.5million copies of the Witcher on PC alone? PC can be profitable if you make a good game.

Do I need to mention Blizzard and WOW or starcraft II?

Those are PC games, did you read my post? They would suck on a console. I am talking about games that are suited to console and that suffer from severe pirating.

And 1.5 million isnt that good anyway.

Exactly, these are PC exclusive games. They are excellent! So this begs the question, if it wasn't profitable for them to do this because of all the piracy than why are they so successful? The developers have spent the time and money to develop a game designed for the PC. It is not a half arsed job, they do it properly.... sooooo.... piracy does not kill the PC market, dev's making substandard games and then blaming piracy kills it.

So by your reasoning a game like DAO or DAII which are better suited to PC should be developed soley for PC and thus forget the console market. I disagree, I think they should be developed differently for both suiting both platforms instead of 'porting'.

Yes they should stay exclusive, they are great and great for PC market as well. People are less likely to pirate them because there great PC excusive games.

But Console exclusives are equally great, some more, some less.

The games that suffer though, are multiplatforms. Some multiplatforms that suffer form severe Pirating, i believe, should be console exclusive. They would turn out better anyway, because they can focus on just the 2 or 1 system, and they might even sell better, because the PC gamers that want the game would buy it on console.

[Challseus]

BomimoDK wrote...
It's 3/4th of what the BG series is said to have sold and i'm pretty sure it's above the average. Sure we have CoD, Halo, ME, DA, GTA. But we also have Alan Wake at 500k sold, Icewind Dale and Jazz Jackrabbit. All great games except the latter 3 falls below the 1.5 million yet the developers earned tons (cept IWD which didn't save Interplay). 1.5 is a lot of sales, don't kid yourself

Sales alone don't mean anything. The other important part of the equation is how much did it cost to develop and market "The Witcher". Then, we can say if 1.5 million sales was good or not (for that particular game, of course).

[JigPig]

KLUME777 wrote...

kr33g0r wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

kr33g0r wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

Because if half your PC audience pirated the game, your losing money! Its not profitable to release on PC! (for that particular game). Most people would buy it on console, therefore the company gets paid for its hard work.

I know that my dad, who had been a long time PC gamer, got so sick of crap like
 -Upgrading his computer for every new game
 -Anti-piracy stuff like DRM

just bought a PS3 a few months ago, because its easier.

So how come CD Projekt (Sorry to bring them up again) sold around 1.5million copies of the Witcher on PC alone? PC can be profitable if you make a good game.

Do I need to mention Blizzard and WOW or starcraft II?

Those are PC games, did you read my post? They would suck on a console. I am talking about games that are suited to console and that suffer from severe pirating.

And 1.5 million isnt that good anyway.

Exactly, these are PC exclusive games. They are excellent! So this begs the question, if it wasn't profitable for them to do this because of all the piracy than why are they so successful? The developers have spent the time and money to develop a game designed for the PC. It is not a half arsed job, they do it properly.... sooooo.... piracy does not kill the PC market, dev's making substandard games and then blaming piracy kills it.

So by your reasoning a game like DAO or DAII which are better suited to PC should be developed soley for PC and thus forget the console market. I disagree, I think they should be developed differently for both suiting both platforms instead of 'porting'.

Yes they should stay exclusive, they are great and great for PC market as well. People are less likely to pirate them because there great PC excusive games.

But Console exclusives are equally great, some more, some less.

The games that suffer though, are multiplatforms. Some multiplatforms that suffer form severe Pirating, i believe, should be console exclusive. They would turn out better anyway, because they can focus on just the 2 or 1 system, and they might even sell better, because the PC gamers that want the game would buy it on console.

Go to Demonoid and filter 360 and PS3 torrents.

[DLAN_Immortality]

This is the internet. Protection is futile.

I give it 12 hours.

Modifié par DLAN_Immortality, 17 novembre 2010 - 07:28 .

[KLUME777]

JigPig wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

kr33g0r wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

kr33g0r wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

Because if half your PC audience pirated the game, your losing money! Its not profitable to release on PC! (for that particular game). Most people would buy it on console, therefore the company gets paid for its hard work.

I know that my dad, who had been a long time PC gamer, got so sick of crap like
 -Upgrading his computer for every new game
 -Anti-piracy stuff like DRM

just bought a PS3 a few months ago, because its easier.

So how come CD Projekt (Sorry to bring them up again) sold around 1.5million copies of the Witcher on PC alone? PC can be profitable if you make a good game.

Do I need to mention Blizzard and WOW or starcraft II?

Those are PC games, did you read my post? They would suck on a console. I am talking about games that are suited to console and that suffer from severe pirating.

And 1.5 million isnt that good anyway.

Exactly, these are PC exclusive games. They are excellent! So this begs the question, if it wasn't profitable for them to do this because of all the piracy than why are they so successful? The developers have spent the time and money to develop a game designed for the PC. It is not a half arsed job, they do it properly.... sooooo.... piracy does not kill the PC market, dev's making substandard games and then blaming piracy kills it.

So by your reasoning a game like DAO or DAII which are better suited to PC should be developed soley for PC and thus forget the console market. I disagree, I think they should be developed differently for both suiting both platforms instead of 'porting'.

Yes they should stay exclusive, they are great and great for PC market as well. People are less likely to pirate them because there great PC excusive games.

But Console exclusives are equally great, some more, some less.

The games that suffer though, are multiplatforms. Some multiplatforms that suffer form severe Pirating, i believe, should be console exclusive. They would turn out better anyway, because they can focus on just the 2 or 1 system, and they might even sell better, because the PC gamers that want the game would buy it on console.

Go to Demonoid and filter 360 and PS3 torrents.

It is very hard to pirate on PS3, you can never download updates or go online,ever (or something like that). Regardless, Very few people would pirate on PS3, its not worth it . 360 is easy to pirate, i hear, but microsoft bans anybody that pirates when they find out. But PC has the most pirating going on than anything else.

Modifié par KLUME777, 17 novembre 2010 - 07:40 .

[kr33g0r]

I agree. PC's have more piracy than any other platform. However, I think you will find that 360's are not too far behind.



But I digress, my main point is that dev's will blame piracy for the reason their game didn't sell well on PC instead of the fact that they have just ported it across. PC is a different platform. A game needs to be developed differently for PC than for 360 or PS3. You can't just port a game from 360 to PC or vice versa. If dev's actually spent the time doing this instead of chasing $$$ they would see an increase in PC sales.

[Aggie Punbot]

Another excellent point made earlier: I buy games because I want to own them, not to rent them. I do not play games that require constant internet connections because:

1). I have limited monthly bandwidth.
2). The ISP I use is the only one in town and is not always entirely reliable.

If either of these items change I may be willing to play an online game, but until such a time (and neither of those is at all likely to change) I am sticking with single player non-internet connection-required games like DA:O, the ME series and anything else I can find.

In regards to the used games argument, how else are people supposed to obtain discontinued games? I went to my local EB Games shop and asked to buy Assassin's Creed and KotoR 1 and 2. I was told that those games had been discontinued and I would no longer be able to purchase them new. Does that mean I'm no longer allowed to have the privilege of playing those games ever? In that instance I wanted to give the gaming companies money but I wasn't allowed to. Perhaps they should rethink their decision to discontinue games that are more than 2 years old.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 17 novembre 2010 - 08:09 .

[Burningwolf]

Anything downloaded from the psn is shareable on 5 ps3's.

Tell me how...that isnt piracy?Mabey not blow by blow up to the ease of pc.But its there.



And the people who mod thier systems to play copied games?Its been done for a looooong time.

No system is safe from piracy.The simple fact is if people want to steal.They will.You hear about counterfit game's at swapmeets and flea markets all the time.

[namedforthemoon]

This thread reminds me of the Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Carpet Book.

[KLUME777]

kr33g0r wrote...

I agree. PC's have more piracy than any other platform. However, I think you will find that 360's are not too far behind.

But I digress, my main point is that dev's will blame piracy for the reason their game didn't sell well on PC instead of the fact that they have just ported it across. PC is a different platform. A game needs to be developed differently for PC than for 360 or PS3. You can't just port a game from 360 to PC or vice versa. If dev's actually spent the time doing this instead of chasing $$$ they would see an increase in PC sales.

A reason why it would be better to leave PC behind. Console version turns out better because resources spent on PC are spent on console. And it is too much of a risk to spend more resources on the PC version when the pirating will still be high. $$$ matter. Should only focus on PC when it is your main audience.

[Eleinehmm]

KLUME777 wrote...

kr33g0r wrote...

I agree. PC's have more piracy than any other platform. However, I think you will find that 360's are not too far behind.

But I digress, my main point is that dev's will blame piracy for the reason their game didn't sell well on PC instead of the fact that they have just ported it across. PC is a different platform. A game needs to be developed differently for PC than for 360 or PS3. You can't just port a game from 360 to PC or vice versa. If dev's actually spent the time doing this instead of chasing $$$ they would see an increase in PC sales.

A reason why it would be better to leave PC behind. Console version turns out better because resources spent on PC are spent on console. And it is too much of a risk to spend more resources on the PC version when the pirating will still be high. $$$ matter. Should only focus on PC when it is your main audience.

You are very State-AU-centric, you know - X-box screw some countries with half-ass translations,does not allow to choose the language and does not post updates. Or and not all countries have their own X-box live - Or at least they didn't when I lived there...

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 17 novembre 2010 - 08:38 .

[namedforthemoon]

Dang. Lot of PC haters here. I like my PC gaming, and it would totally suck if games completely ignored me just because I'm not part of the main audience.

[KLUME777]

Burningwolf wrote...

Anything downloaded from the psn is shareable on 5 ps3's.
Tell me how...that isnt piracy?Mabey not blow by blow up to the ease of pc.But its there.

And the people who mod thier systems to play copied games?Its been done for a looooong time.
No system is safe from piracy.The simple fact is if people want to steal.They will.You hear about counterfit game's at swapmeets and flea markets all the time.

That is pirating on a very small scale, and cant be released on the internet. Also, full, current-generation, games are rarely released on PSN (InFamous and some being an exception). You cant buy and download DAO off of PSN, then give it to your friends PS3. You can do it with DLC, mini's and others, but not (most) full games.

[KLUME777]

Eleinehmm wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

kr33g0r wrote...

I agree. PC's have more piracy than any other platform. However, I think you will find that 360's are not too far behind.

But I digress, my main point is that dev's will blame piracy for the reason their game didn't sell well on PC instead of the fact that they have just ported it across. PC is a different platform. A game needs to be developed differently for PC than for 360 or PS3. You can't just port a game from 360 to PC or vice versa. If dev's actually spent the time doing this instead of chasing $$$ they would see an increase in PC sales.

A reason why it would be better to leave PC behind. Console version turns out better because resources spent on PC are spent on console. And it is too much of a risk to spend more resources on the PC version when the pirating will still be high. $$$ matter. Should only focus on PC when it is your main audience.

You are very State-AU-centric, you know - X-box screw some countries with half-ass translations,do not allow to choose the language and do not post updates. Or and not all countries have their own X-box live - Or at least they didn't when I lived there...

???

[Eleinehmm]

KLUME777 wrote...

Eleinehmm wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

kr33g0r wrote...

I agree. PC's have more piracy than any other platform. However, I think you will find that 360's are not too far behind.

But I digress, my main point is that dev's will blame piracy for the reason their game didn't sell well on PC instead of the fact that they have just ported it across. PC is a different platform. A game needs to be developed differently for PC than for 360 or PS3. You can't just port a game from 360 to PC or vice versa. If dev's actually spent the time doing this instead of chasing $$$ they would see an increase in PC sales.

A reason why it would be better to leave PC behind. Console version turns out better because resources spent on PC are spent on console. And it is too much of a risk to spend more resources on the PC version when the pirating will still be high. $$$ matter. Should only focus on PC when it is your main audience.

You are very State-AU-centric, you know - X-box screw some countries with half-ass translations,do not allow to choose the language and do not post updates. Or and not all countries have their own X-box live - Or at least they didn't when I lived there...

???

And what  that suppose to mean ? All the people need to  live in an X-box or PS3 friendly country all of a sudden ? Just because you think that PC are not worth it ?

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 17 novembre 2010 - 08:40 .

[KLUME777]

namedforthemoon wrote...

Dang. Lot of PC haters here. I like my PC gaming, and it would totally suck if games completely ignored me just because I'm not part of the main audience.

I don't hate PC, i like it. I just hate it when developers dont get the money they should and when a game suffers because of pirating. Which is largely due to PC.

So far, Bioware has had the best approach at anti-piracy by releasing DLC with a new copy. Not only does it stop piracy, but it benifits legit customers with extra stuff, rather than punishing legit customers with DRM. (im not sure if you can pirate DLC items like that. Can you?)

Also, it gives incentive to buy new copies rather than pre-owned. More $$$ to Bioware!

[Eleinehmm]

KLUME777 wrote...

namedforthemoon wrote...

Dang. Lot of PC haters here. I like my PC gaming, and it would totally suck if games completely ignored me just because I'm not part of the main audience.

I don't hate PC, i like it. I just hate it when developers dont get the money they should and when a game suffers because of pirating. Which is largely due to PC.

So far, Bioware has had the best approach at anti-piracy by releasing DLC with a new copy. Not only does it stop piracy, but it benifits legit customers with extra stuff, rather than punishing legit customers with DRM. (im not sure if you can pirate DLC items like that. Can you?)

Also, it gives incentive to buy new copies rather than pre-owned. More $$$ to Bioware!

If they stop developing  PC games I will start to approve piracy - People need to have a choice, no matter where they are from.

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 17 novembre 2010 - 08:44 .

[KLUME777]

Also, i heard Crysis 1 was massively pirated, which hurt the game enough for the second to go to console. Just saying, something needs to be done about pirating, or more and more developers will start to slip away from the PC.

Think. 6-7 years ago, PC was at the top of gaming. Now, this is not the case, consoles have overtaken by a lot. I used to be PC, but now my main is PS3. In another 6-7 years, i predict it will be a lot worse. Pirating will be the death of PC games. Something needs to be done.

Pirating should be a crime that is enforced by the law and the government. It is stealing, after all.

[asaiasai]

Helena Tylena wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

Itkovian wrote...

That said, I think using something like the Cerberus Network might also be useful. It probably won't cut down on piracy, but it will at least help them against used games sales.
Itkovian

Can you explain that please? How are used game sales wrong somehow? I used to buy used games all the time because they're cheaper (paying $30 is a lot better than $60). 

When you buy a used game, the developers see exactly 0 cents of whatever currency you bought it in.

Look at it this way: person one buys a game at retail for 60$. The developer gets (random number. Don't shoot me if it's inaccurate) 20$ for selling the game to the retailer.
A few months later, person one has finished the game and sells it back to the retailer, who then sells it through to person two, who pays 30$. The retailer puts all of that money in their back-pocket and the developer gets 0$ from this exchanche, leaving them with 40$ where they should have 20$.
Now, multiply 20$ times the amount of times a used game is sold, and you get a rough estimate of how much money the developer should have had -and could have used on their next game- but didn't.

A used copy is essentially a pirated copy in that it gives the people who made the game nothing. Buying games used is technically the same as downloading it illegally, except the user has to pay for it.

See i have a big problem with that analogy. I am 44 years old and i own about 2500 albums on vinyl. Full 33 1/3 rpm albums of various artists from Original press Beatles to Pink Floyd the Wall of some albums i have 2 copies one to play and another still in the original plastic to save. I already paid for the content once when i bought it on the record, so what you are saying, is that if i download The Wall of the Inet i am a pirate? How many times is the artist and the record company entitled to get paid for the content. I will agree that it is difficult to use the album content on my PC which is the legitimate product that they are selling? Is it the format which is an industry standard or are they selling the content the artists work? I am not a pirate and i did recognize early that if i liked the Allman Brothers i needed to buy thier music or they will not be able to pay thier bills and will have to go back to pumping gas, with that in mind am i a pirate fi i own Eat a Peach on vinyl and down load the mp3 off the inet?  Alot of it is the mindset of the people in the world today, people do not want to pay taxes but will **** when no one answers the 911 (999 in Britain?) call they just placed, go figure. Alot of people either think they world owes them something, that the rules apply only to others, that it is only a one time thing, or since the monetary amounts are minimal it is ok.

Nope it is much easier to change the copy protection on the software than to change people's attitudes, it is an uphill battle one that i am on the developer's side for the most part. But responisbility is a 2 way street as in the case of GTA4 and the hoops one must go through to reinstall the game. As a legitimate owner of the software i had one hell of a time trying to reinstall my copy of GTA4 when i built my new computer. In order to reinstall GTA4 i had to spend close to 5 hours reading the forums, and emailing the company, to get a legitimate reinstallation code when i could have gone to a pirate site and in less than 5 minutes downloaded a hack that ignored all of the copy protection and been playing the game 4 hours and 55 minutes sooner. 

That was not an attempt to justify the pirate mentality, but in these 2 cases there is a legitimate argument to be made.  When the company in thier attempt to minimize pirateing creates such an obtrusive copy protection that it interferes with the legitimate software user, there needs to be some recourse for the user, it can not always be just about the company.   

Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 17 novembre 2010 - 08:58 .

[Eleinehmm]

KLUME777 wrote...

Also, i heard Crysis 1 was massively pirated, which hurt the game enough for the second to go to console. Just saying, something needs to be done about pirating, or more and more developers will start to slip away from the PC.

Think. 6-7 years ago, PC was at the top of gaming. Now, this is not the case, consoles have overtaken by a lot. I used to be PC, but now my main is PS3. In another 6-7 years, i predict it will be a lot worse. Pirating will be the death of PC games. Something needs to be done.

Pirating should be a crime that is enforced by the law and the government. It is stealing, after all.

It is not stealing - It is an illegal activity, which presumably (we can't be sure that those who pirated a game would have bought it  if they couldn't ) hurts the sales. I am not saying that piracy is good (Developers need money people and not paying for the work is unethical)  but  I like clear defenitions

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 17 novembre 2010 - 09:05 .

[Eleinehmm]

asaiasai wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

Itkovian wrote...

That said, I think using something like the Cerberus Network might also be useful. It probably won't cut down on piracy, but it will at least help them against used games sales.
Itkovian

Can you explain that please? How are used game sales wrong somehow? I used to buy used games all the time because they're cheaper (paying $30 is a lot better than $60). 

When you buy a used game, the developers see exactly 0 cents of whatever currency you bought it in.

Look at it this way: person one buys a game at retail for 60$. The developer gets (random number. Don't shoot me if it's inaccurate) 20$ for selling the game to the retailer.
A few months later, person one has finished the game and sells it back to the retailer, who then sells it through to person two, who pays 30$. The retailer puts all of that money in their back-pocket and the developer gets 0$ from this exchanche, leaving them with 40$ where they should have 20$.
Now, multiply 20$ times the amount of times a used game is sold, and you get a rough estimate of how much money the developer should have had -and could have used on their next game- but didn't.

A used copy is essentially a pirated copy in that it gives the people who made the game nothing. Buying games used is technically the same as downloading it illegally, except the user has to pay for it.

See i have a big problem with that analogy. I am 44 years old and i own about 2500 albums on vinyl. Full 33 1/3 rpm albums of various artists from Original press Beatles to Pink Floyd the Wall of some albums i have 2 copies one to play and another still in the original plastic to save. I already paid for the content once when i bought it on the record, so what you are saying, is that if i download The Wall of the Inet i am a pirate? How many times is the artist and the record company entitled to get paid for the content. I will agree that it is difficult to use the album content on my PC but what is the legitimate product that they are selling? Is it the format which is an industry standard and is owned by no one or are they selling the content the artists work which is ownable property? I am not a pirate and i did recognize early that if i liked the Allman Brothers i needed to buy thier music or they will not be able to pay thier bills and will have to go back to pumping gas. Alot of it is the mindset of the people in the world today, people do not want to pay taxes but will **** when no one answers the 911 (999 in Britain?) call they just placed, go figure. Alot of people either think they world owes them something, that the rules apply only to others, that it is only a one time thing, or since the monetary amounts are minimal it is ok.

Nope it is much easier to change the copy protection on the software than to change people's attitudes, it is an uphill battle one that i am on the developer's side for the most part. But responisbility is a 2 way street as in the case of GTA4 and the hoops one must go through to reinstall the game. As a legitimate owner of the software i had one hell of a time trying to reinstall my copy of GTA4 when i built my new computer. In order to reinstall GTA4 i had to spend close to 5 hours reading the forums, and emailing the company, to get a legitimate reinstallation code when i could have gone to a pirate site and in less than 5 minutes downloaded a hack that ignored all of the copy protection and been playing the game 4 hours and 55 minutes sooner. 

That was not an attempt to justify the pirate mentality, but in these 2 cases there is a legitimate argument to be made.  When the company in thier attempt to minimize pirateing creates such an obtrusive copy protection that it interferes with the legitimate software user, there needs to be some recourse for the user, it can not always be just about the company.   

Asai

As long as there are no Regions, forced language, "sorry-guys-no-DLC-for-you-even-if-you-want-it-in-English" I am more or less  ok with consoles  (still hate the controls, though)

[Tiax Rules All]

namedforthemoon wrote...

Dang. Lot of PC haters here. I like my PC gaming, and it would totally suck if games completely ignored me just because I'm not part of the main audience.

I million times... this ^

also Eleinehmm is a pirate...

[Eleinehmm]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

namedforthemoon wrote...

Dang. Lot of PC haters here. I like my PC gaming, and it would totally suck if games completely ignored me just because I'm not part of the main audience.

I million times... this ^

also Eleinehmm is a pirate...

You are insulting me sir - I support Bioware since the BG, and will support it as long as I have money

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 17 novembre 2010 - 09:03 .

[Tiax Rules All]

Eleinehmm wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

namedforthemoon wrote...

Dang. Lot of PC haters here. I like my PC gaming, and it would totally suck if games completely ignored me just because I'm not part of the main audience.

I million times... this ^

also Eleinehmm is a pirate...

You are insulting me sir - I support Bioware since the BG, and will support it as long as I have money

and when you dont have money?....

[KLUME777]

Eleinehmm wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

Also, i heard Crysis 1 was massively pirated, which hurt the game enough for the second to go to console. Just saying, something needs to be done about pirating, or more and more developers will start to slip away from the PC.

Think. 6-7 years ago, PC was at the top of gaming. Now, this is not the case, consoles have overtaken by a lot. I used to be PC, but now my main is PS3. In another 6-7 years, i predict it will be a lot worse. Pirating will be the death of PC games. Something needs to be done.

Pirating should be a crime that is enforced by the law and the government. It is stealing, after all.

It is not stealing - It is an illegal activity, which presumably (we can't be sure that those who pirated a game would have bought it  if they couldn't ) hurts the sales. I am not saying that piracy is good but  I like clear defenitions

Call it what you will, i still call it stealing because the dev loses money, and more to the point, it should be a crime to pirate games. I have no respect to anyone that pirates games.