302 réponses à ce sujet

[lovgreno]

Ahglock wrote...

Cerberus reminds me too much of Cobra. Full of fail terrorist organization who is supposed to be seen as threatening and powerful. Because logic is trumped by the rule of cool they run around town with their cobra tattoos fairly openly or cerberus markings on the ship. The leader is a lunatic who you never can actually touch and the only time his plans work is when he teams up with the heroes against a bigger threat.

Yes indeed. The self obsessed and paranoid leaders Cobra and Cerberus have are too narcisistic to realise how much fail they cause.

[YAHG]

cerberus will do things that many classify as 'evil' to further their purpose. for that, i dig them.



morality is subjective, and i like that they take the path less traveled.

[Stazro]

Inverness Moon wrote...

TIM believes biotics is the future of humanity, that is why he has put some much effort into its research.

Adolf Hitler believed the "Nordic Race" was the future of humanity. What a noble goal to better mankind! I suppose he wasn't such a bad guy after all, at least to those who find nothing evil about Cerberus, because "the ends justify the means"...

[YAHG]

Stazro wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

TIM believes biotics is the future of humanity, that is why he has put some much effort into its research.

Adolf Hitler believed the "Nordic Race" was the future of humanity. What a noble goal to better mankind! I suppose he wasn't such a bad guy after all, at least to those who find nothing evil about Cerberus, because "the ends justify the means"...

so what are you trying to say? that the nordic race is not the best race? you wanna go, punk?

[Inverness Moon]

Stazro wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

TIM believes biotics is the future of humanity, that is why he has put some much effort into its research.

Adolf Hitler believed the "Nordic Race" was the future of humanity. What a noble goal to better mankind! I suppose he wasn't such a bad guy after all, at least to those who find nothing evil about Cerberus, because "the ends justify the means"...

I'm going to suggest you to not use such an analogy again. I'm offended by the fact that you're swinging Hitler's name around in an analogy that is not even applicable to the game. If you do that again I suggest you be pretty damn sure you know what the hell you're talking about.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 26 novembre 2010 - 06:33 .

[Phaedon]

I expected a similar analogy to pop up.
Not that what some people have claimed are not almost as offensive as it, but please refrain from using these kind of stuff as an example.

Modifié par Phaedon, 26 novembre 2010 - 10:53 .

[YAHG]

ut owes. teh internet is upset at the hitler reference. run!

[tywinsregards]

Hitler and ****s ain general are in a league all to itself. There actions will always be something that shouldnt be brought up or used lightly.

[Xilizhra]

Eh, better not to Godwin yourself until we get proof of TIM wanting to commit genocide. I for one don't think that we'll have that long to wait...

[tywinsregards]

As i said before I will reserve judgement on them for now. There actions are understandable or at least debatable plus Im just go on a limb and say bioware wouldnt make them the absolute evil in the galaxy, it would be a weak plot that most saw coming. I fear the alliance more than cerberus.

Modifié par lgeass88, 27 novembre 2010 - 03:32 .

[Xilizhra]

I suspect that the Alliance and Cerberus are two parts of the same monster.

[tywinsregards]

ye i just like to remind people that they WERE part of the alliance and theyve been pro human from the start,so who do u think set that agenda?? Not to mention the alliance on at least one occasion pulled a cerberus like move but oh well we'll see wat happens in ME3

Modifié par lgeass88, 27 novembre 2010 - 03:43 .

[Stazro]

I used that reference for a good reason and I counted on the outcry of indignation.

Whenever the Cerberus topic is on the table, there will be people who indiscriminately dismiss every crime on Cerberus' list because of the results or possible results. Obviously somewhere there has to be a line, since we don't see anyone (sane) claiming that Hitler's clique was justified by some higher goal.

So, where inbetween do you draw that line, if continuous murders, torture and inhuman experiments are still not enough for you to say: This means can no longer be justified by any ends?

[SJK93]

I don't trust Cerberus, personally. The Illusive Man says their goals are the advancement and preservation of humanity, but I fear that may lead to human domination, which I don't think is a very good path to walk on. Power corrupts, and for all I know the Illusive Man is completely drunk on it. I don't believe that the end always justifies the means, and it appears the Illusive Man does. And not only does he believe that, but he has the the power, seemingly, to do whatever he wants to whomever he wants. A dangerous combination, in my opinion, and enough reason for me to want to shut down Cerberus for the greater good, if given the chance.

[Phaedon]

Stazro wrote...

I used that reference for a good reason and I counted on the outcry of indignation.
Whenever the Cerberus topic is on the table, there will be people who indiscriminately dismiss every crime on Cerberus' list because of the results or possible results. Obviously somewhere there has to be a line, since we don't see anyone (sane) claiming that Hitler's clique was justified by some higher goal.
So, where inbetween do you draw that line, if continuous murders, torture and inhuman experiments are still not enough for you to say: This means can no longer be justified by any ends?

Believe me, people dismissing Cerberus' crimes is extremely offensive. But the particular analogy is too 'sensitive'. 

[tywinsregards]

Stazro wrote...

I used that reference for a good reason and I counted on the outcry of indignation.
Whenever the Cerberus topic is on the table, there will be people who indiscriminately dismiss every crime on Cerberus' list because of the results or possible results. Obviously somewhere there has to be a line, since we don't see anyone (sane) claiming that Hitler's clique was justified by some higher goal.
So, where inbetween do you draw that line, if continuous murders, torture and inhuman experiments are still not enough for you to say: This means can no longer be justified by any ends?

if u had made the comparison to bin laden and al queda i would have understood that but ure comparing and outright maniac that was bent on killing of an entire race to a nationalist at worst. If u wanna seriously debate that there not even remotely close.

[Inverness Moon]

Stazro wrote...

I used that reference for a good reason and I counted on the outcry of indignation.

What you did was ignorant and irresponsible.

It should be pretty god damned obvious that TIM thinking biotics are the future of humanity doesn't mean TIM wants to exterminate all non-biotics or something ridiculous. What you did was like comparing me to Hitler if I were to say that I thought cybernetic implants were the future of humanity.

Feel free to explain yourself it that wasn't what you were implying.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 27 novembre 2010 - 06:48 .

[Cwbushido]

I am new to the forums, but been a fan since ME1. I also support Cerberus. I will admit that I didn't like them in the first game. Reading the books and playing ME2 changed my view of them. Every Organisation/Military has there dirty little secrets. The only reason why we know of Cerberus and these few incidences is because the game lead us in that direction. If they said that the STG or the Alliance did these( witch I am not saying that they have not done equal or worse.) you would be calling them evil. They wouldn't call Tim, The Illusive Man if he post everything Cerberus has done over the net. Cerberus even helped saved Citadel once, but nobody ever mentions that. Can you imagine how much chaos there would be if that biological weapon was unleashed on the Citadel. I never once read or heard that Tim once to perform genocide/control races but human. He's pro human. He wants to make sure Humanity strong and can't be pushed aside like Batarians and sadly the Quarians.

Modifié par Cwbushido, 28 novembre 2010 - 04:58 .

[Nashiktal]

I have to admit, Stazro has made a very good point. It was offensive, but the man did fund operation overlord. had thresher maw acid infused into a mans bloodstream, Inadvertently caused a rachni invasion of outlying alliance outposts, killed kohaku with lethal injection, messed with thorian creepers, invaded the quarian conclave, and countless other "little" things such as assassinations.

[Phaedon]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Stazro wrote...

I used that reference for a good reason and I counted on the outcry of indignation.

What you did was ignorant and irresponsible.

It should be pretty god damned obvious that TIM thinking biotics are the future of humanity doesn't mean TIM wants to exterminate all non-biotics or something ridiculous. What you did was like comparing me to Hitler if I were to say that I thought cybernetic implants were the future of humanity.

Feel free to explain yourself it that wasn't what you were implying.

You know, I agreed with you until you called him ignorant and irresponsible.

Hitler was a racist, but he was also a war criminal. He was a firm believer of 'The ends justify the means'.
If Hitler wasn't a racist and didn't believe in an uber race, would that make him good ? No. He was still an amoral mass murderer. Saying that TIM isn't one is just offensive to be perfectly honest.

Modifié par Phaedon, 28 novembre 2010 - 09:14 .

[Inverness Moon]

Nashiktal wrote...

I have to admit, Stazro has made a very good point. It was offensive, but the man did fund operation overlord. had thresher maw acid infused into a mans bloodstream, Inadvertently caused a rachni invasion of outlying alliance outposts, killed kohaku with lethal injection, messed with thorian creepers, invaded the quarian conclave, and countless other "little" things such as assassinations.

You haven't explained why Starzo had a good point, and why comparing TIM to hitler is sound.

Also, if you want to talk about inadvertent actions, Shepard might have inadvertently been responsible for galactic extinction because he destroyed the collector base. So let's not go there, and instead consider what they did want to do.

Phaedon wrote...

You know, I agreed with you until you called him ignorant and irresponsible.

Hitler was a racist, but he was also a war criminal. He was a firm believer of 'The ends justify the means'.
If Hitler wasn't a racist and didn't believe in an uber race, would that make him good ? No. He was still an amoral mass murderer. Saying that TIM isn't one is just offensive to be perfectly honest.

Firstly, I said that what he said was ignorant and irresponsible. Let's make that clear distinction.

Your argument is a straw man. I did nothing but say that TIM's belief that biotics was the future of humanity in no way meant equating him with Hitler. Additionally, you're trying to say that I or someone else believed TIM is good if he isn't worthy of being compared to Hitler, which is also not the case.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 28 novembre 2010 - 05:35 .

[pf17456]

When you set out to intentionally infringe, ignore, disregard or dominate the free will of others your basic premise is one of aggression. This premise succeeds only in generating more aggression. It improves the quality of life only for those who embrace violence and war. For those who do not celebrate death and destruction or experience the pain of loss this premise is hardly preferable. Furthermore this premise forces everyone into a lifestyle colored by defensivness and paranoia with fear as the centerpoint of emotion, ether succumbing to it or overcoming it.

Acheiving human dominance will not improve the quality of life for humans, it will only paint a target on every human's head. No I wouldn't consider Cerebrus 'good'

[Ahglock]

pf17456 wrote...

When you set out to intentionally infringe, ignore, disregard or dominate the free will of others your basic premise is one of aggression. This premise succeeds only in generating more aggression. It improves the quality of life only for those who embrace violence and war. For those who do not celebrate death and destruction or experience the pain of loss this premise is hardly preferable. Furthermore this premise forces everyone into a lifestyle colored by defensivness and paranoia with fear as the centerpoint of emotion, ether succumbing to it or overcoming it.
Acheiving human dominance will not improve the quality of life for humans, it will only paint a target on every human's head. No I wouldn't consider Cerebrus 'good'

Being the councils **** race does not improve quality of life either.  To me a least there seemed to be a good deal of anti human sentiment from non-council races and council races in ME1 and ME2.  While I do not find cerebus to be good, I don't find it particularly surprising when the downtrodden attempt to assert dominance.

[The Fan]

 They seem to be like ONI from the halo universe to me.

[pf17456]

Ahglock wrote...
Being the councils **** race does not improve quality of life either.  To me a least there seemed to be a good deal of anti human sentiment from non-council races and council races in ME1 and ME2.  While I do not find cerebus to be good, I don't find it particularly surprising when the downtrodden attempt to assert dominance.

Given that Humans are in fact the 'new kids on the block' it isn't surprising other races are hesitant about throwing their arms around Humans and handing them the keys to the car. It was stated in ME1 that other races view Humans as bullies. With that kind of identity it would seem appropriate to proove that perception as being inaccurate. If the Council was saved in ME1 progress was made in altering that perception however Human managment of C-Sec I'd say was a step backward. Humans are hardly downtrodden, Quarians and Vorcha own that position.