302 réponses à ce sujet

[Landon Frost]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Landon Frost wrote...

I just really hope ME3 lets you have a choice.. I am tired of jumping loyalties.  I think the loyalty from ME2 is a subtle hint to wether or not you can defect back to the alliance or stay Cerberus in ME3.

Agreed, though I suspect in ME3 it will be more just Shepard doing his/her own thing rather than being affiliated with any large organisation (except for the Spectres of course).

I agree with that.. although I think there will be a choice between the two sides you want to "officially" be with and bonuses from both in the form of allies/weapons/money etc.  Would also be interesting if certain places were blocked from you depending on your affiliation.  

[Skirlasvoud]

Landon Frost wrote...

Cerberbus is an Alliance Black-Ops division gone rogue.  It is state in the game at some point.. I believe by the Admiral in the first game.  My point was that the Alliance created a black-ops division to do the very things that they now condemn Cerberus for doing.

I just really hope ME3 lets you have a choice.. I am tired of jumping loyalties.  I think the loyalty from ME2 is a subtle hint to wether or not you can defect back to the alliance or stay Cerberus in ME3.

Who says that the Alliance created Cerberus for the things they are doing now? It's in the word "rogue" really. They went rogues because they wanted to do things that the Alliance wouldn't let them, not because they thought going rogue would be kewl and mysterious. TIM hijacked its function.  

You're right. It's Admiral Kahoku from the first game who said these things, but he also mentioned that they are now running experiments that the Alliance condemns.

[AntiChri5]

I wouldn't say that Cerberus is an openly reckognized enemy just yet. You can get Miranda and Jacob through C-SEC just fine and the SR-2 can land anywhere without getting shot down. 



Like I said, the Alliance will need evidence first, although Anderson is off course free to distribute intel to the Turians as he sees fit. What they do with it, depending on what they witness there, is their business (haven't read Revelation. Maybe Cerberus did something ghastly or dangerous to the Turians there.). There's a reason why you can hand Cerberus Data over to Admiral Hacket, or let Corperal Toombs and the scientist live long enough so that Cerberus can be brought to trial. 



Only a matter of time before it's curtains for Cerberus though, and the Alliance can declare them an enemy to be shot at sight. Happy day that. I have a Sniper Sheppard and a bullet with TIM's name on it.

They are an openly recognised enemy.

The only reason the Normandy hasn't been impounded and the crew imprisoned is because Anderson and Hacket are shielding Shepard from the Alliance.

In LotSB there is a letter to Hacket, one of his subordinates wants permission to move against Shepard, Hacket won't let him.

[Encarmine]

Big Blue Car wrote...

Congrats Encarmine you're a dumb racist.

To clarify, Cerberus are racist and incompetent, and none of their projects has ended well with most being disastrous. As you clearly don't appreciate them based on their results you must appreciate them based on their ideology and that reflects badly on you.

In terms of Aliens vs Humans, I suppose im guilty as charged, lol as you say 'Racist', but I hope your not blurring the lines between my opinions on a video game organisation and real life.

As long as were clear that were talking 'in game' here, then absolutly, im Pro Human

[Inverness Moon]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Remind me, how many people died in the invention of the light bulb?

You're forgetting (or ignoring) that Cerberus is doing what they do to save lives.

"If my work spares a million mothers mourning the loss of a million sons, my conscience will rest easy."

The invention of the light bulb didn't involve the same stakes.

Edit: It's a good thing Cerberus went rogue. If they hadn't, Shepard would probably still be dead right now.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 18 novembre 2010 - 03:11 .

[AntiChri5]

You're forgetting (or ignoring) that Cerberus is doing what they do to save lives.

According to them.

The invention of the light bulb didn't involve the same stakes.

Hey man, it's your analagy. Not my problem it is flawed.

[Lumikki]

Yes, I think Cerberus is bad. Mostly because what they have done and they ideology. How ever, that doesn't mean every induvidual in they organisation is bad.

[Inverness Moon]

AntiChri5 wrote...

According to them.

Straw man.

AntiChri5 wrote...

The invention of the light bulb didn't involve the same stakes.

Hey man, it's your analagy. Not my problem it is flawed.

My analogy wasn't flawed. Your understanding of it was.

If a few people die in an experiment that ends up saving millions, then you've got more out of it then you put in. However, if people had tried while Edison had tried to invent the light bulb and it didn't save any lives, then there might be a problem.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 18 novembre 2010 - 04:06 .

[Encarmine]

end of the day, if it wasnt for cerberus, we wouldnt of had ME2 or the upcoming ME3, didnt see the Alliance rebuild ol'sheppy.



Cerberus are not evil anymore, in the past they were definatly bad guys, a pro human group with no real cause, but the Reapers have given Cerberus a positive direction to go in.

[CRISIS1717]

Cerberus are blatantly bad in my book, they aren't about furthering humanity or even dominating aliens.



They are about dominating everyone, you can see Cerberus want control, control over everything at the cost of whoever stands in their way. They could save everyone but at the cost of becoming slaves to Cerberus.

[hooahguy]

They are evil, but sometimes its a necessary evil.

[Big Blue Car]

hooahguy wrote...

They are evil, but sometimes its a necessary evil.

And this is not one of those times in any way, shape or form.

[AdmiralCheez]

The ideals, methods, and motives of Cerberus as a whole are definitely "bad." However, there are people in it (your crew, for example) that honestly want to do good. Fight Collectors? Yes. Fight Reapers? Yes. Turn orphans into super-soldiers and use them to fight the asari, turians, and salarians? GTFO, you crazy SOBs.

[Talogrungi]

Simple answer: Yes.

Having read the books and played the games, there's really no other answer I could honestly give.

[Mubar]

How can you even think that Cerberus is bad? Just because they lost count of the kids in the biotic death camps doesnt make them bad nor does the fact that they unleashed tresher maws on marines, that was for science its the marines fault for letting the tresher maw eat them if they had run faster and shot the damm thing maybe they would be alive .Cerberus is more inocent then a japanese girl about to get ra%^d by a tentacle monster

[Shepard needs a Vacation]

If a few humans suffer at the cost of saving humanity and the galaxy, well i think they've done a good job and HUMANS WILL COME OUT ON TOP because Shep demands it !

[Alienmorph]

Cerberus and TIM are not necessairly evil... but someone with almost limitless resources with no moral bounds rarely achieves to something good without stomping someone's head during the voyage. And considering the kind of the threads that Cerberus want faces, the prize to achieve the victory may be REALLY hight.

[Phaedon]

I have already replied in this thread but anyway.

How can we determine if an organization is objectively morally 'bad' or 'good' ?

Is their goal bad/good ?
Their goal is to help the ascension of the human race.

Imho, their goal is simply stupid. Humans are new to the council, and they shouldn't be the 'leading power'. However, their goal, isn't bad/good.

Are their means bad ?
HELL YES. Not to mention that they tend to blow up.

The ends do not justify the means, it is the means that produce the ends. So yes, Cerberus is bad.

[primero holodon]

well, regardless of what the Illusive man says, they are still terrorists and they are still human supremecists... so yeah they are bad. remember the National Sozialist party of germany experimented on prisoners for the betterment of mankind and I wouldn't exactly call them good. (had to use the official name of the party, the more known one is censored)

Modifié par primero holodon, 18 novembre 2010 - 09:29 .

[roguex]

I think TIM and Cerberus are a very cool and distinct way of putting you in a position that forces you to decide wether to trust him/them to be the good guys or not.



I trust my team, but I don't trust TIM.



But that doesn't mean I don't need them and will not work with them to bring down the bigger threat!

[Demigod]

No more or less than most governments.
Look at the UK in the last century We experimented on troops and civilianns under the cover of curing the common cold while giving them nerve toxins and exposure to radiation.
Our government has order assassinations and invasions. We have illegally captured and transported individuals.
We fire bombed several cities to the ground with no regard to civilian casualties as it was easier than precision bombing that the Americans practiced at the time. Our enemies were put on trial for such actions, nothing happened to bomber command as we won the war our enemy's started.
Go back a bit further to to boer war (1880-81) and you find the invention of the concentration camp by us Brits.

Yes Cerberus has done and continues to do terrible things, but so do governments everywhere for what they see as the greater good. The only difference is Cerberus isn't elected and is responsible only to their backers/ shareholders.

History will judge them, bringing Shep back is a big plus after all. But how it remembers them depends on who wins though to write the history books. <- that will be us after the last game

Modifié par Demigod, 18 novembre 2010 - 10:52 .

[roguex]

Yes, humanity is horrible from one point of view in history and amazing from another view point.

But the interesting question is, with regards to history and the things we know today.



What will The Illusive Man do, with all that might, once the war is won?

[Yojimbo_Ltd]

if people are trying to make normative judgments about a fictional, multi-media organization, I suggest that you stick with the novels. ME2 has major plot discrepancies concerning the most important aspects of the game. It would not be a stretch of the imagination that they overlooked simple issues of continuity.



For example, you can bring a Geth infiltrator on the citadel just as easy as a Cerberus operative.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

roguex wrote...

What will The Illusive Man do, with all that might, once the war is won?

First of all, Cerberus has no army. They are not nearly large enough to conquer all of the other races.

Second, I am a billion times more worried about winning the war then what will happen after. It's metagaming when you assume we are going to win because it's a video game and worry more about what happens afterwards. The same thing is true with the Council decision. Concentrating on Sovereign is the right decision because Shepard doesn't know the battle will be won.

[MadCat221]

roguex wrote...
What will The Illusive Man do, with all that might, once the war is won?

Considering their track record...

Modifié par MadCat221, 19 novembre 2010 - 12:52 .