302 réponses à ce sujet

[luckyj20]

joriandrake wrote...

I consider Cerberus to represent us humanity in the galaxy just as SS represented Germany once: as the worst side of us, or very close to it

Nope, I believe they did it so that a pope that favored Salarian interests would be chosen in place of him.

[Arrtis]

THey are extremists not quite evil.

[Inverness Moon]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

roguex wrote...

What will The Illusive Man do, with all that might, once the war is won?

First of all, Cerberus has no army. They are not nearly large enough to conquer all of the other races.

Second, I am a billion times more worried about winning the war then what will happen after. It's metagaming when you assume we are going to win because it's a video game and worry more about what happens afterwards. The same thing is true with the Council decision. Concentrating on Sovereign is the right decision because Shepard doesn't know the battle will be won.

I completely agree with this. :happy:

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

They're aren't bad.



They do what it takes to get things done, which is what you need in a battle for the galaxy against the reapers!



What are the Alliance or the other council races doing to try and stop the reapers? NOTHING, they are sitting are popping off air quotes denying that the reapers even exist.

[rasblak]

Yes, Cerberus are bad.

Bad as in how back in the day, according to Jim Bradley's "Imperial Cruise"
extermination of the native Americans was considered essential for the successful expansion
of one particular race in the United States kind of "bad";
you know "Whatever it takes to get things done" done wrong kind of "bad".

Yet, come World War II, did Russia, Britain or France refuse to "work with" the same "bad" U.S ?

Same goes for Shepard, the team and working with Cerberus, to tackle the immediate threat of
the Reapers.

Modifié par rasblak, 19 novembre 2010 - 04:22 .

[rasblak]

Inverness Moon wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Remind me, how many people died in the invention of the light bulb?

You're forgetting (or ignoring) that Cerberus is doing what they do to save lives.

Partly to save lives. They also mention sth along the lines of "to establish humanity as the dominant race"
dominant: it's not just most advanced, able to handle any foe, master of own destiny to me;
sounds a lot like able to crush whoever was already  before us in some place we want to be.

Edit: It's a good thing Cerberus went rogue. If they hadn't, Shepard would probably still be dead right now.

oh.. that "good thing"-ness.. we have dismissed that claim, in light of how rogue Cerberus or not, Shepard remaining dead or not,
BioWare would still have made ME2.

Modifié par rasblak, 19 novembre 2010 - 06:09 .

[-Skorpious-]

I consider them evil solely for kidnapping children. However, they did perform a miracle and brought a dead human being back to life; potentially saving thousands of human lives across the galaxy if the technology saw widespread adoption.

[roguex]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

roguex wrote...

What will The Illusive Man do, with all that might, once the war is won?

First of all, Cerberus has no army. They are not nearly large enough to conquer all of the other races.

Second, I am a billion times more worried about winning the war then what will happen after. It's metagaming when you assume we are going to win because it's a video game and worry more about what happens afterwards. The same thing is true with the Council decision. Concentrating on Sovereign is the right decision because Shepard doesn't know the battle will be won.

Yes, you're quite right! We don't know how it can/will end. 

I sure hope we'll get the chance to bring down the reapers in 3 though (with enough open/loose ends to continue the story!)

But TIM is powerful, no doubt about it.

[Fancando]

As much as one would consider Mordin's Salarian Task Force "bad" or the council races "bad" for double crossing the Krogan.

[Zatwu]

Most of Cerberus seems like evil bigots, they've even freaked out TIM with it. I'd say TIM has noble, albeit bigoted, goals and Cerberus as a whole is evil.

[Fancando]

Zatwu wrote...

Most of Cerberus seems like evil bigots, they've even freaked out TIM with it. I'd say TIM has noble, albeit bigoted, goals and Cerberus as a whole is evil.

That is proven by ME, Overlord and Jack's origin really, they are smart enough to know when to leave a project thoug, that makes them a formidable evil.

[Lumikki]

Question was bad, not evil. Those aren't same.

[Ryngard]

Cerberus isn't "bad" as in evil like the Sith or Darkspawn.



However, they ain't good either!



They are extremists... fanatics. They should not be given free reign to do what they want. The ends don't justify the means.



So yeah I'd say they are bad... because they do things the wrong way and many are racist/specist/elitist jerks.



That said... at least they are willing to try and save the galaxy from the Reapers. Gotta give them a tiny bit of credit for that at least.

[joriandrake]

-Skorpious- wrote...

I consider them evil solely for kidnapping children. However, they did perform a miracle and brought a dead human being back to life; potentially saving thousands of human lives across the galaxy if the technology saw widespread adoption.

I am not sure where in the game but there were hints that a "returned" lifeform might only live for another 1-3 years before dying for good, if this is also true for Shepard then he will pretty much live just enough for the timeframe to save the galagy from the reapers.

[Kurt Cobain]

I didn't expect to see so many idealist on this forum...



Sure, cerberus has done bad stuff, but shepard has also killed tonnes of (relatively) innocent people.



If you have the option of saving 10000 humans, at the cost of making 1000 humans lifetime slaves, you'd have to take that.

[joriandrake]

Kurt Cobain wrote...

I didn't expect to see so many idealist on this forum...

Sure, cerberus has done bad stuff, but shepard has also killed tonnes of (relatively) innocent people.

If you have the option of saving 10000 humans, at the cost of making 1000 humans lifetime slaves, you'd have to take that.

really? no

[Destroy Raiden_]

They at least have different moral values as an organization then most. They killed Kohaku, they kill your squad on Akuze if you have that background, Most every research base I runinto they're fraking it all up. Also anything or anyone thats too pro something needs to be watched closely especially when money and politics are involved which Cerberus has both to lose or gain they even have joint secret programs with the Alliance the Ascension program I think its called but how many other times do they do shaddy research and testing programs to later turn in the results to the highest bidder?



Working for them has done little to make me want to suddenly turn around and embrace them. If anything it shows how well TIM is deceiving all his other cells sense no one cell can recognize the other anyway easy to put two cells in one building and have them blow each other up if TIM needs to get rid of them. He's proven he will do most anything to get results some of his members have proven they'd go further he's got too many hands in the pot I bet he even has multiple banners Cerberus maybe the most visual we see but whos to say he doesn't have a dozen more child/brother/sister entities he's watching too?



If it came down to having to negotiate with them as a whole I really don't think you'd be able too with their value and mindset when you place all violent and questionable responses on the table for your members to use as the head of that organization on some level you believe in the use or necessity of these practices and that makes them an organization unable to be reasoned with.

[joriandrake]

lets ignore the question if they are bad or not for a second, and just consider what actions and decisions they made until now

I won't list all of them but consider it: reapers made evolving species rely on their own technology through who knows since when, they are the true creators of the Citadel and the relays, yes the CItadel seems now be out of under their control but all the other influence still remains, including the dependency on relays for travel

I believe it to be a bad decision to use anything from reaper technology, it could easily be that the reapers can manipulate those for their own use, just by disabling all the relays in the galaxy they can cripple all the species with no other means of travel, and I can see how they might turn anything Cerberus "developes" from the collector base against themself.

The only thing they made right in my opinion is their choice to bring Shepard back



as for current activities: while they are somewhat cleaned out you shouldn't forget Cerberus while not having a real army of itself has still people in  high ranks in defense forces/military, politics, research, and industry

They are more like a secret nation than a simple terrorist group, something what the Illuminati are said to be

Modifié par joriandrake, 19 novembre 2010 - 06:20 .

[joriandrake]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

We need sacrifice to win war, it always be, it alway had.

nope, while it may be true for most part, it isn't always true, there were quite a few quick, easy, and decisive battles and victories in history without any real sacrifices from the victors

[joriandrake]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

Imperium Alpha wrote...
We need sacrifice to win war, it always be, it alway had.

nope, while it may be true for most part, it isn't always true, there were quite a few quick, easy, and decisive battles and victories in history without any real sacrifices from the victors

Indeed

also, sometimes the cost to win is just not worth, just think about a certain famous greek-roman battle as the perfect historical example



but you could also easily imagine "Not worth" being ideas, morales, or something else you believe humanity should stay true to, to be able to still recognize humans as being human, and thus these shouldn't be thrown away just to survive/win/dominate/"evolve"

[Inverness Moon]

joriandrake wrote...

but you could also easily imagine "Not worth" being ideas, morales, or something else you believe humanity should stay true to, to be able to still recognize humans as being human, and thus these shouldn't be thrown away just to survive/win/dominate/"evolve"

And who exactly is suggesting throwing away anything?

[joriandrake]

Inverness Moon wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

but you could also easily imagine "Not worth" being ideas, morales, or something else you believe humanity should stay true to, to be able to still recognize humans as being human, and thus these shouldn't be thrown away just to survive/win/dominate/"evolve"

And who exactly is suggesting throwing away anything?

Cerberus, as example