302 réponses à ce sujet

[tywinsregards]

To be fair, cant half of the things cerberus did be blamed on the alliance?? I mean pragia was constructed only 3 years after the manifesto was made public so they had to still be apart of the alliance and most if not all of there funding comes from people in the alliance. And if im not mistaken its never been determined when they went rogue.

Modifié par lgeass88, 24 novembre 2010 - 07:16 .

[lovgreno]

Phaedon wrote.
Means? Abduction, torture and murder of children. Ends ? A single biotic.
Means? Murder of soldiers who enlisted on the SA to protect their family on earth. Ends ? Testing a trap ? I really can't see an end noble enough for mass murder.
Means? Destruction of a colony, countless victims. Ends ? A few good biotics.
Means? Abduction of a kid. Ends ? A single biotic.
Means? Same as Akuze.
Means? Torture and murder of an admiral who tried to find who killed his men. Ends ? Getting away with mass murder.
Means? Attack on a flotilla full of millions of innocents. Ends ? Getting a single man.
Means? Murder. Ends? Putting an extremist as the head of a political party.

Distinguishing between good and evil doesn't get any easier. 

It should never be easy to distinguish between good and evil. Those who are sure of that they are infailiably for the greater good (TIMmy and most of Cerberus for example) usualy makes the biggest mess out of things.

But most of the galaxy, including the humans Cerberus claim to be rescuing from themselves, seems to think that Cerberus is bad. Where it is smoke there may be fire and Shepard has found enough mess upps and torture with Cerberus name on it to prove that there is something rotten in Cerberus leadersip.

So, no Cerberus is not necesarily evil or bad but your examples shows that they are isolated, incompetent and blinded by their own extreme idealism.

[Ahglock]

Cerberus reminds me too much of Cobra. Full of fail terrorist organization who is supposed to be seen as threatening and powerful. Because logic is trumped by the rule of cool they run around town with their cobra tattoos fairly openly or cerberus markings on the ship. The leader is a lunatic who you never can actually touch and the only time his plans work is when he teams up with the heroes against a bigger threat.

[Inverness Moon]

Ahglock wrote...

Cerberus reminds me too much of Cobra. Full of fail terrorist organization who is supposed to be seen as threatening and powerful. Because logic is trumped by the rule of cool they run around town with their cobra tattoos fairly openly or cerberus markings on the ship. The leader is a lunatic who you never can actually touch and the only time his plans work is when he teams up with the heroes against a bigger threat.

That is a perfect way to demonstrate BioWare's bad writing.

[Landon Frost]

lgeass88 wrote...

To be fair, cant half of the things cerberus did be blamed on the alliance?? I mean pragia was constructed only 3 years after the manifesto was made public so they had to still be apart of the alliance and most if not all of there funding comes from people in the alliance. And if im not mistaken its never been determined when they went rogue.

Cerberus also used to be part of the Alliance.

[PiEman]

To answer the thread title:



No, but I consider the Illusive Man to be a bit of an ****.

[Ahglock]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Cerberus reminds me too much of Cobra. Full of fail terrorist organization who is supposed to be seen as threatening and powerful. Because logic is trumped by the rule of cool they run around town with their cobra tattoos fairly openly or cerberus markings on the ship. The leader is a lunatic who you never can actually touch and the only time his plans work is when he teams up with the heroes against a bigger threat.

That is a perfect way to demonstrate BioWare's bad writing.

I have a feeling if ME1 was a movie it would be directed by by Ridley Scott while ME2 wouyld be directed by  Michael Bay.  I actually like movies by both directors, but one one is more about telling a good story the other is more about big explosions. Am I entertained in either case, oh hell yeah. 

ME1 cerebus came across as a sinister evil organization in the shaodws. Did you beat them, sure but you are the hero so duh.  In ME2 it is all about them being a big super rich organization with snazzy outfits.  Other than cobra the only thing as cheesy is early bond villans.  But hey I still love Dr. No even if it is corny. 

[TheNexus]

Modifié par TheNexus, 25 novembre 2010 - 07:02 .

[TheNexus]

Cerberus has Miranda.



Miranda has dat ass.



Cerberus has Jacob.



Jacob has the priiiizzeee.



I see nothing wrong here.

[Zatwu]

Cerberus has Jacob.

Good point, now all the femsheps will hate Cerberus.

[Phaedon]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Cerberus reminds me too much of Cobra. Full of fail terrorist organization who is supposed to be seen as threatening and powerful. Because logic is trumped by the rule of cool they run around town with their cobra tattoos fairly openly or cerberus markings on the ship. The leader is a lunatic who you never can actually touch and the only time his plans work is when he teams up with the heroes against a bigger threat.

That is a perfect way to demonstrate BioWare's bad writing.

No, it's the perfect description for urban terrorist groups.

[tywinsregards]

Landon Frost wrote...

lgeass88 wrote...

To be fair, cant half of the things cerberus did be blamed on the alliance?? I mean pragia was constructed only 3 years after the manifesto was made public so they had to still be apart of the alliance and most if not all of there funding comes from people in the alliance. And if im not mistaken its never been determined when they went rogue.

Cerberus also used to be part of the Alliance.

thats the point i was making, and we dont know when they were made rogue so how much of these orders are actually orders from the alliance??

[Phaedon]

That's a completely different debate, with no point.

They are still bad.

Modifié par Phaedon, 25 novembre 2010 - 04:52 .

[tywinsregards]

It does have a point. We dont consider soldiers bad for killing people or the CIA bad for assassinating people, we blame the country that allowed it because they allowed and in most cases ordered it. While i dont agree with all of the things they did, Its still remains to be seen how many of there actions will play out in the end. I wouldnt say there evil YET but i would say there dirty but thats how they should be. But the overall point i was tryin to make is that we dont know how much the alliance was involved in this stuff because it hasnt been said or mentioned, heck as far as most people are concerned its irrelevant and im sure thats how bioware wants u to think.

Modifié par lgeass88, 25 novembre 2010 - 05:09 .

[Phaedon]

Actually, I do consider the CIA bad for killing people. But anyway, that was not your point.



Remember that Cerberus is officially a criminal organization and volunteers should know very well what kind of operations Cerberus has. They don't get to use the 'I was just following orders' card.



Not that it matters anyway, we are speaking of Cerberus as an organization, not it's staff.

[tywinsregards]

And in an organization the staff isnt relevant?? interesting. The staff is the organization!

Modifié par lgeass88, 25 novembre 2010 - 05:17 .

[Phaedon]

lgeass88 wrote...

And in an organization the staff isnt relevant?? interesting.

To the 'morality' of the organization ? That would be determined by it's goals and it's actions, or as you said 'orders'.

We can't label every single Cerberus officer, I am just saying that they are guilty of at least one thing., so they can't play the 'I followed orders' card. And if the Alliance is still connected to Cerberus somehow, then the only thing that would change is that the Alliance would be bad as well.

[tywinsregards]

And all im really saying is that we really dont know anything about cerberus or even why there actions were done. In the novels, thats differnt, in fact it suprises me how post opposite they are but in retribution u can take as a good or bad thing. At the same time we cant immediatly say they are bad because somethings did pay off and we still dont know everything, the ends justifies the means. I will be keeping an eye on them though.

[Phaedon]

lgeass88 wrote...

And all im really saying is that we really dont know anything about cerberus or even why there actions were done. In the novels, thats differnt, in fact it suprises me how post opposite they are but in retribution u can take as a good or bad thing. At the same time we cant immediatly say they are bad because somethings did pay off and we still dont know everything, the ends justifies the means. I will be keeping an eye on them though.

Well it's true that we can only theorize on some ends, but we can be sure for some. It's obvious that TIM wants a super-biotic for some reason, for example.

I don't know about the ends justifying the means, but abducting and torturing children marks them as bad in my book.

[tywinsregards]

Ye well we got Jack in the end right??? And Pragia went rongue also and was keeping things from TIM and he wanted to shut it down,thats kinda debatable too.

[Phaedon]

So, abduction, torture and brainwash (making her feel that violence is rewarded) are good ?

Not to mention that Pragia's objective was to abduct kids and turn them into super-biotics since the very beginning. 

Modifié par Phaedon, 25 novembre 2010 - 05:48 .

[tywinsregards]

But that was done independently from cerberus and without his knowledge. Even one of the logs said that if TIM found out, the project would be shut down.Plus cerberus turned all survivors over to the alliance afterwards, Ill give the abduction part to u though.

Modifié par lgeass88, 25 novembre 2010 - 05:58 .

[Phaedon]

As you said, the Pragia operation is actually debatable, but even if it went rogue, TIM still has some responsibility for it.

[tywinsregards]

And im not denying it, like i said i just dont consider them evil. They are suspicious and there actions are sketchy but its too close too call either way because many things only went horribally wrong because of things like betrayal or understimating things. You could probably say they screw up A LOT but they have had successes as well.

Modifié par lgeass88, 25 novembre 2010 - 06:10 .

[Inverness Moon]

TIM believes biotics is the future of humanity, that is why he has put some much effort into its research. He doesn't just want a single super-biotic.



I don't remember where I read that though, probably Ascension.