187 réponses à ce sujet

[-Semper-]

shepard_lives wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

Because this is an RPG and as such characters have a personality and don't let their leader dictate how they dress?

Very much this. It was pretty irritating in DAO that I could send Morrigan into combat wearing a Chantry robe.
If they hadn't said that outfits will be largely static from a visual standpoint, I would be fully supporting the new system.

in da3 they won't let you control your companions because they are individual beings. back to the nwn days were mostly everybody complained about not having direct control for their party members...

[Krytheos]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Krytheos wrote...

Nerivant wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
But what is the excuse for DA2? Surely they haven't deleted the inventory system... or have they?

It was in an announcement about two weeks back. They're streamlining it.

If you call 'streamlining' getting rid of 500 grey iron daggers, and junk loot so worthless the only reasonable thing to do with it is throw it away, sure, it's 'streamlined.'

I don't have any problems with that. But what I do have a problem with is not being able to outfit MY team. I don't care if it's Mass Effect or Dragon Age, it's still my team and last I checked, both of those games were still labeled as RPG's.

There is a fundamental difference between deleting something that was already worthless (the 500 grey iron daggers) and something that is truly fundamental to RPG's (the inventory system/party customization).

The very idea of taking useful features away in a sequel is just... dumb. Bioware even expressed regret over deleting the inventory system in Mass Effect 2 not too long ago, and yet, they seem to have forgotten that inventory management is directly linked to outfitting your party. So, now with DA 2, we still have inventory but the party customization has been deleted. Ummm.... why?

The thing is, the party customization is still there. You can still equip them with weapons rings, belts, and the like; the only thing locked is their appearance, since they don't have generic models. Sure, it is the 'same' as ME2, in that respect, but unlike ME2, the devs have said that the armor is upgradeable, and the stats and such change over the course of the game, and they even switch clothing and whatnot.

The inventory is still the same as Origins, essentially; the only thing locked out of party customization is appearence, at least for Companions. Hawke still has access to them, and whatnot, so really, the only thing 'gone' technically, is equipping your party members with generic-heavy plate armor 55104.

I can see where people are pissed at that, but eh. ME2 did it fairly well, and the companions were much more 'unique' because of it, so I can't really complain. Hopefully also means more meaningful loot, or loot with an interesting story behind it or some such. Hopefully this also means the armor is much more satisfying and less-generically made with palette swaps here and there, and the unique armor lasts for..longer than it did.

[Shepard Lives]

-Semper- wrote...

in da3 they won't let you control your companions because they are individual beings. back to the nwn days were mostly everybody complained about not having direct control for their party members...

I don't quite understand the point you are trying to make.

[Ziggeh]

shepard_lives wrote...

-Semper- wrote...

in da3 they won't let you control your companions because they are individual beings. back to the nwn days were mostly everybody complained about not having direct control for their party members...

I don't quite understand the point you are trying to make.

It's a classical slippery slope argument. I 'm suprised we don't see them more often.

"In DA2 you can't play an elf or dwarf, in DA3 they won't even let you play human, you're just a floating camera that can watch people going about their business."

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 17 novembre 2010 - 09:32 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

The Masked Rog wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Krytheos wrote...

Nerivant wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
But what is the excuse for DA2? Surely they haven't deleted the inventory system... or have they?

It was in an announcement about two weeks back. They're streamlining it.

If you call 'streamlining' getting rid of 500 grey iron daggers, and junk loot so worthless the only reasonable thing to do with it is throw it away, sure, it's 'streamlined.'

I don't have any problems with that. But what I do have a problem with is not being able to outfit MY team. I don't care if it's Mass Effect or Dragon Age, it's still my team and last I checked, both of those games were still labeled as RPG's.

There is a fundamental difference between deleting something that was already worthless (the 500 grey iron daggers) and something that is truly fundamental to RPG's (the inventory system/party customization).

The very idea of taking useful features away in a sequel is just... dumb. Bioware even expressed regret over deleting the inventory system in Mass Effect 2 not too long ago, and yet, they seem to have forgotten that inventory management is directly linked to outfitting your party. So, now with DA 2, we still have inventory but the party customization has been deleted. Ummm.... why?

Because this is an RPG and as such characters have a personality and don't let their leader dictate how they dress?

Look, I'm the commander in both Dragon Age and Mass Effect. What is say goes, and that's the end of it. But more importantly, it's a way to further interact with those characters. And if they have such strong personalities, why was I able to change the outfits in Mass Effect 2 at all?

[Maria Caliban]

shepard_lives wrote...

-Semper- wrote...

in da3 they won't let you control your companions because they are individual beings. back to the nwn days were mostly everybody complained about not having direct control for their party members...

I don't quite understand the point you are trying to make.

NwN didn't let you change your companions' outfits. Many disliked the companions in NwN.

DA 2 doesn't let you change your companions' outfit. Ergo, many will dislike the companions in NwN.

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Look, I'm the commander in both Dragon Age and Mass Effect. What is say goes, and that's the end of it. But more importantly, it's a way to further interact with those characters. And if they have such strong personalities, why was I able to change the outfits in Mass Effect 2 at all?

Because you finished a special mission that made them more inclined to like you. And by 'like' we mean wear the exact same outfit in a different color.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 17 novembre 2010 - 09:34 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

I don't have any problems with that. But what I do have a problem with is not being able to outfit MY team. I don't care if it's Mass Effect or Dragon Age, it's still my team and last I checked, both of those games were still labeled as RPG's.

Key is "still labeled as" an rpg. ME 2 is a shooter with a few rpg elements. Dragon Age 2 appears to be moving in the same direction. Less of everything that makes a rpg.  More arcade style action.

It is silly to think that if you find a better armor for a warrior that your warrior companion won't put it on becase it is not the same color of armor that he is currently wearing.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 17 novembre 2010 - 09:36 .

[-Semper-]

shepard_lives wrote...

I don't quite understand the point you are trying to make.

why having direct control of your party members? just strip that because you are not god and therefore only have control over the main character.

[The Masked Rog]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

The Masked Rog wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Krytheos wrote...

Nerivant wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
But what is the excuse for DA2? Surely they haven't deleted the inventory system... or have they?

It was in an announcement about two weeks back. They're streamlining it.

If you call 'streamlining' getting rid of 500 grey iron daggers, and junk loot so worthless the only reasonable thing to do with it is throw it away, sure, it's 'streamlined.'

I don't have any problems with that. But what I do have a problem with is not being able to outfit MY team. I don't care if it's Mass Effect or Dragon Age, it's still my team and last I checked, both of those games were still labeled as RPG's.

There is a fundamental difference between deleting something that was already worthless (the 500 grey iron daggers) and something that is truly fundamental to RPG's (the inventory system/party customization).

The very idea of taking useful features away in a sequel is just... dumb. Bioware even expressed regret over deleting the inventory system in Mass Effect 2 not too long ago, and yet, they seem to have forgotten that inventory management is directly linked to outfitting your party. So, now with DA 2, we still have inventory but the party customization has been deleted. Ummm.... why?

Because this is an RPG and as such characters have a personality and don't let their leader dictate how they dress?

Look, I'm the commander in both Dragon Age and Mass Effect. What is say goes, and that's the end of it. But more importantly, it's a way to further interact with those characters. And if they have such strong personalities, why was I able to change the outfits in Mass Effect 2 at all?

That is a really good question. You shouldn't have been able to. And I'd like to see you go on Morrigan's face and say that. I truly would. If only to see your PC being transformed into a toad.

[Atakuma]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

I don't have any problems with that. But what I do have a problem with is not being able to outfit MY team. I don't care if it's Mass Effect or Dragon Age, it's still my team and last I checked, both of those games were still labeled as RPG's.

Key is "still labeled as" an rpg. ME 2 is a shooter with a few rpg elements. Dragon Age 2 appears to be moving in the same direction. Less of everything that makes a rpg.  More arcade style action.

changing a companions appearance has nothing to do with it being an rpg.

[Krytheos]

Maria Caliban wrote...

shepard_lives wrote...

-Semper- wrote...

in da3 they won't let you control your companions because they are individual beings. back to the nwn days were mostly everybody complained about not having direct control for their party members...

I don't quite understand the point you are trying to make.

NwN didn't let you change your companions' outfits. Many disliked the companions in NwN.

DA 2 doesn't let you change your companions' outfit. Ergo, many will dislike the companions in NwN.

You know, I never..really understood that, truth be told, but I suppose I never quite will.

By the by; is that a Legend of the Five Rings avatar I spot, or am I just imagining things? 

[The Masked Rog]

-Semper- wrote...

shepard_lives wrote...

I don't quite understand the point you are trying to make.

why having direct control of your party members? just strip that because you are not god and therefore only have control over the main character.

BioWare should listen to this. They really should. You are full of good ideas on how to make better RPGs.

[Nerivant]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
Look, I'm the commander in both Dragon Age and Mass Effect. What is say goes, and that's the end of it. But more importantly, it's a way to further interact with those characters. And if they have such strong personalities, why was I able to change the outfits in Mass Effect 2 at all?

You have a severe authority complex that you should probably see someone about.

[Ziggeh]

-Semper- wrote...

shepard_lives wrote...

I don't quite understand the point you are trying to make.

why having direct control of your party members? just strip that because you are not god and therefore only have control over the main character.

Even more slippery.

Do you get to create the companions personality? You might influence them, sure, through conversation, but you never have total control over them. From there it's purely a case of degrees, and simply because people are used to changing appearances within rpgs in no way makes it critical to the (vague, loose and debatable) definition.

[Maria Caliban]

-Semper- wrote...

shepard_lives wrote...

I don't quite understand the point you are trying to make.

why having direct control of your party members? just strip that because you are not god and therefore only have control over the main character.

I agree. Control over party members should be highly limited. I can't go up to my friend who's a corporate lawyer and tell her to become a criminal defendant. Why can I go up to my friend the archer and tell her to duel-wield daggers?

Still, I understand BioWare needs to compromise to the many wargamers out there.

[Maria Caliban]

Krytheos wrote...

You know, I never..really understood that, truth be told, but I suppose I never quite will.

By the by; is that a Legend of the Five Rings avatar I spot, or am I just imagining things? 

You didn't understand why people didn't like NwN companions, why they didn't like NwN in general, or how you could take an aspect from one game and decide players' reaction to the game in general was dependent on that one aspect?

Or, is there something I'm missing?

It is! Good eye there.

[Shepard Lives]

Nerivant wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
Look, I'm the commander in both Dragon Age and Mass Effect. What is say goes, and that's the end of it. But more importantly, it's a way to further interact with those characters. And if they have such strong personalities, why was I able to change the outfits in Mass Effect 2 at all?

You have a severe authority complex that you should probably see someone about.

I think that's a little harsh.

[Xewaka]

Krytheos wrote...

By the by; is that a Legend of the Five Rings avatar I spot, or am I just imagining things? 

Yes, she's Doji Seo (basic).

For party customization issues... We retain full control of the party and we can configure their equipment, if not their looks. I still don't understand why anyone sensible would wade into battle without a functional layer of protection, though.

Modifié par Xewaka, 17 novembre 2010 - 09:46 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Atakuma wrote...

 changing a companions appearance has nothing to do with it being an rpg.

Why would my companion refuse to wear better armor when we find it in the field? That would be just stupid. I could see them making one character like that and just say he doesn't care if he lives or dies, he just wants to wear only pink undies. :blink:But to make all characters like that?

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 17 novembre 2010 - 09:46 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

I don't have any problems with that. But what I do have a problem with is not being able to outfit MY team. I don't care if it's Mass Effect or Dragon Age, it's still my team and last I checked, both of those games were still labeled as RPG's.

Key is "still labeled as" an rpg. ME 2 is a shooter with a few rpg elements. Dragon Age 2 appears to be moving in the same direction. Less of everything that makes a rpg.  More arcade style action.

It is silly to think that if you find a better armor for a warrior that your warrior companion won't put it on becase it is not the same color of armor that he is currently wearing.

I agree on both counts. I can understand why some would desire unique attire for their party members, it makes them more individual. But I really missed that feature in Mass Effect 2, and to see that they are doing the same thing with Dragon Age 2 really annoys me. But what annoys me more is the people who try to pass it off as 'streamlining'.

If Bungie took out all the vehicles in Halo Reach, would people have just said it was their way of streamlining the game? I doubt it.

[-Semper-]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Do you get to create the companions personality? You might influence them, sure, through conversation, but you never have total control over them.

it was just a reference to that dumb statement that within a game a companion won't let me change the outfit due to their personality. and yes, i have total control over them. i can mouse click and keep my berzerk buddy out of fight which is in total contrary to his blood thirsty personality...

[Crimson Invictus]

Xewaka wrote...

Krytheos wrote...

By the by; is that a Legend of the Five Rings avatar I spot, or am I just imagining things? 

Yes, she's Doji Seo (basic).

I was just going to say that.

[Nerivant]

shepard_lives wrote...

Nerivant wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
Look, I'm the commander in both Dragon Age and Mass Effect. What is say goes, and that's the end of it. But more importantly, it's a way to further interact with those characters. And if they have such strong personalities, why was I able to change the outfits in Mass Effect 2 at all?

You have a severe authority complex that you should probably see someone about.

I think that's a little harsh.

And I'll accept the punishment if it is deemed so.

[Shepard Lives]

Nerivant wrote...

shepard_lives wrote...

Nerivant wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
Look, I'm the commander in both Dragon Age and Mass Effect. What is say goes, and that's the end of it. But more importantly, it's a way to further interact with those characters. And if they have such strong personalities, why was I able to change the outfits in Mass Effect 2 at all?

You have a severe authority complex that you should probably see someone about.

I think that's a little harsh.

And I'll accept the punishment if it is deemed so.

I like you.