23 réponses à ce sujet

[Arthur Cousland]

I've had a blast playing as my dwarf commoner rogue so far, but around level 20, the game started to feel like Awakening with minimal challenge.  I had to up the difficulty from normal to nightmare and I've seen minimal difference.  Enemies still drop like flies with momentum+backstabbing.  I've considered using a respec tome in awakening to lower his cunning to 40 or so from the 55+ it is now, but I'm not sure if that would make much of a difference.  He's a bard/assassin, uses generic tier 7 daggers with paralyze, hale and slow runes.

My main question is... Is this typical?   The game had a reasonable difficulty prior to level 20, but my rogue has become a killing machine.  He's doing over 40% of the party's damage and gets most of the kills, and this is on nightmare.  Gaxkang was a decent challenge, but that was the exception.  He was using Rose of the Dead Gods+ The Rose's Thorn, but as previously mentioned, I've sold those and stuck him with regular tier 7 daggers.  I've tried not using momentum for a while, but I don't like holding back just for the sake of challenge.

This is certainly different than playing as a weapon+shield warrior or a mage.  I didn't mind normal difficulty so much then.

[Elhanan]

I have seen on occasions where the Hard setting is more challenging thyan NM; might give this a shot. And try going through the game in a varied order. I just encountered the High Dragon at 20th, and the HD got a TPK first time; surprised me!

Part of the problem is you are gettong precognative, as you know what will occur before it happens. I have seen there is a mod that adds random encounters into the mix, if you are on a PC.

But I would never suggest nerfing your builds to create challenge. If this is required, why bother?

[DWSmiley]

I find that starting about level 14 the game gets steadily easier, with a few exceptions. By then you've got good ways to handle anything you encounter. I try as much as possible not to be precognitive and to explore/fight using only what the characters could perceive.



The best thing is what Elhanan says - do the quests in different order. That way you'll experience the challenge of completing every quest before you reach a level that is too powerful.

[Tigress M]

Also try swapping out party members. If you're use to running with the same three companions, you'll eventually figure out the best tactics for all of them. However, if you start running with companions you don't usually use, you'll find yourself having to adapt to new tactics, thereby increasing the fun.

Also, instead of nerfing your PC, try setting yourself some restrictions, like using no pots or not allowing anyone to get injured. I can't do the no pot thing, but I've completed several playthroughs on Nightmare with no injuries. It's fun, but not easy, even with Rogues (which is my favorite class) especially big fights like the HD.

[termokanden]

What bothers me is that the difficulty settings (like in so many other games) just scale enemies. The battles aren't really substantially different. In a sense it just nerfs you. I never liked that at all.

I wish it could mean you would be as powerful but fighting against impossible odds. It's not just an ego thing, it's also because it's silly that you're so weak compared to everything else. For me it makes it hard to take the game seriously. Why would the grey warden/spectre be weaker than the average enemy?

I still remember how silly it was playing Gears of War on insanity when you had to empty one or more magazines directly into even the most lowly grunt's skull to kill them. Yeah it's harder, but in a silly way that makes you feel like you're attacking people with pillows instead of guns.

So I play on the hardest settings mostly just to prove that I can, then I go back to having fun steamrolling things again but not without wishing I could fight armies instead of small groups.

Modifié par termokanden, 18 novembre 2010 - 07:05 .

[Bozorgmehr]

termokanden wrote...

So I play on the hardest settings mostly just to prove that I can, then I go back to having fun steamrolling things again but not without wishing I could fight armies instead of small groups.

Indeed. And the one time you do get to fight an army (Denerim), they changed the darkspawn into 1 HP grunts ...

[DWSmiley]

Tigress M wrote...

Also, instead of nerfing your PC, try setting yourself some restrictions, like using no pots or not allowing anyone to get injured. I can't do the no pot thing, but I've completed several playthroughs on Nightmare with no injuries. It's fun, but not easy, even with Rogues (which is my favorite class) especially big fights like the HD.

Excellent idea.  My usual restrictions are:

• no arcane warrior or blood magic
  
• no mana clash
  
• no elfroot from Varathorn
  
• no DLC goodies - though I use the High Regard of House Dace for chests.
  
• no luring

I try for no injuries but have never managed it.  Something always happens like in my last party playthrough, when the desire demon in Honnleath caught three of us in a cone of cold.  Morrigan had Heal but was frozen and the rage demons ripped me apart before I could do anything.

Modifié par DWSmiley, 18 novembre 2010 - 07:41 .

[Tigress M]

@DWSmiley - Wow! I'd never survive a no injury playthrough with all those restrictions, but I bet it'd be fun to try. I think the "no luring" would be the hardest as that's the only way I manage some of the harder fights since I just can't seem to survive unless I can draw a few enemies out and deal with them before tackling the really ugly ones (like emissaries or mages).

[Arthur Cousland]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions.

I already do some of the restrictions, mainly the ones that avoid one shot kills and etc.  I prefer to play with my opponents for a bit before I finish them off, and I like it when I'm forced to think defensively to avoid injuries.

Perhaps Nature of the Beast seemed to lack challenge because I wasn't going up against armored enemies. I'll have to stop doing that one last, perhaps second after Broken Circle.

Anyway, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that my rogue is a one dwarf killing machine, when that is what the class is set up to be.

Modifié par Arthur Cousland, 18 novembre 2010 - 08:17 .

[DWSmiley]

Arthur Cousland wrote...

Perhaps Nature of the Beast seemed to lack challenge because I wasn't going up against armored enemies. I'll have to stop doing that one last, perhaps second after Broken Circle.

If you want the ultimate challenge, go to the Brecilian Forest straight from Lothering and poke about a gravestone. 

I think winning that fight would be impossible.

[Tigress M]

Speaking of NotB, I recently killed Witherfang just to see what would happen, having either sided with the Werewolves or broken the curse in all my other playthroughs. THAT was one seriously difficult fight. Not sure if it was just because I hadn't ever done it before and so didn't have the tactics thing down, or if it was just THAT hard due to all the "overwhelm" attacks, immobilizing my party.

And yeah, revenants are tough... the only time they don't give me trouble is when I've got Alistair or another S&S using Warcry every chance they get. Otherwise, those are fights I often have to reload to get through them without someone "dying".

[tonnactus]

Revenants-> Misdirection Hex + Miasma+Rally and Death Hex. Perfect Striking also helps against Aura of Weakness.
By the way,its hard to believe that cunning rogues didnt have Accuracy issues with enemies like this.

Modifié par tonnactus, 19 novembre 2010 - 12:51 .

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Oddly, my last three games I've poked the Black Vial Revenant in the Orzammar Palace at level 8-9 and had no problems. Sure, Alistair or Dog got squished once, but even without tier 3 spells and most skills, they're not much of a threat anymore.

[Mocker22]

Remember the good old days when normal was still a challenge because everything was new and we didn't know how to play every class.

[DWSmiley]

tonnactus wrote...

Revenants-> Misdirection Hex + Miasma+Rally and Death Hex. Perfect Striking also helps against Aura of Weakness.
By the way,its hard to believe that cunning rogues didnt have Accuracy issues with enemies like this.

Misdirection Hex + Death Hex is my favorite way to do revenants but you don't have them straight out of Lothering, or much of anything.  That's why it would be MIssion Impossible.

[Arthur Cousland]

Brock22 wrote...

Remember the good old days when normal was still a challenge because everything was new and we didn't know how to play every class.

Same here.  I remember the first time I beat the High Dragon and Ser Cauthrien in Howe's dungeon.  I'd reload countless times and almost give up.  When I finally succeeded, it was a huge accomplishment.  Now, I know what to do with these fights and other tricky parts in the game, and have few to no injuries to my party during playthroughs.

[Bozorgmehr]

Revenants are easy when they're on their own. Those is the Brecilian Forest are much harder because they've got pals (including elites).

The Proving (group) fights are among the hardest early game; as is the final contract (Crows).

[termokanden]

Ser Cauthrien was... difficult the first time to put it mildly.



It still is rather difficult if you don't lure people out of the room. If you do it's trivial.

[DWSmiley]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Revenants are easy when they're on their own.

I wouldn't say so for a level 7-8 group.  One time I went straight to Denerim from Lothering and got the random revenant encounter.  I gave up after several tries that all played out the same:

Alistair and I (dw rogue) miss a lot and hit for little damage, with no way to debuff its armor.
Morrigan helps with heal, lightning, weakness and cone of cold but dies quickly when she draws the aggro.
Then Alistair and I die.
Leliana gets a bit of damage in until everyone else is dead.
Reload.

EDIT:  And you can't kite revenants because of mass pull.  'Twas just frustrating.

Modifié par DWSmiley, 19 novembre 2010 - 07:10 .

[Tigress M]

DWSmiley wrote...
EDIT:  And you can't kite revenants because of mass pull.  'Twas just frustrating.

Actually, you can, sort of.  The pull is line of sight I think (at least he's never been able to pull me around a corner) so if I'm in a tough fight where standard tactics aren't working, I swap everyone to ranged and have whoever has agro run around to points out of LoS.  The runner can't fight much, but it works... slowly.  

[DWSmiley]

Aha. Not easy in the Denerim encounter but if you could get everyone down the stairs, there are a few things to stand behind, IIRC.

[Alamar2078]

IMHO the game gets a lot easier when Rogues hit a high enough level with good enough gear ... they're hard to hit, hit back a ton, can Stealth to reposition for free, ... Even in the really tough fights if they can plant their back in a corner they can win virtually any fight.



Cranking difficulty & putting restrictions on yourself is likely the only way to make it more challenging.

[Arthur Cousland]

Denerim was fun, and during some of the fights, I was actually glad that my rogue was so powerful. I wish Origins had more moments like that. During the archdemon fight, I had my party focus on the boss, while my rogue took out the darkspawn adds. Eventually the darkspawn stopped spawning and I had no choice but to finish off the big lizard...

[Realranger55]

im so used to imposing the no pots, no injuries restriction on my playthroughs that i sometimes forget it wasnt designed like that, sadly even my 3archer + shale party was able to complete the game quite easily within these guidelines.

Modifié par Realranger55, 25 novembre 2010 - 07:18 .