1008 réponses à ce sujet

[Craig McDermott]

Hopefully this trend continues and DA3 is an Xbox 360 exclusive, first-person Mabari hound-petting simulator. With Kinect support of course so players can waggle their arms around to pet the hound.

[Zhijn]

Time to roar!.

We'v heard so much about the console changes, and little to nothing about how you plan on making the game work on the PC. Except the usual "it pretty much play exactly like DAO". But that kinda contradict what this BW rep supposedly said to this previewer, dosnt it?.

Things im dying to know about the PC.

- Combat. How similar to DAO is it, or is it not even close?
We'v heard so much about the console, how "one button click and something awesome happens" (most cheesy line ever!).

- Control scheme. I gues this can also tie into with Combat.

But will it be as good as DAO with every key able to be assigned to whatever we choose?.Are the camera now fixed at all time, like no more moving around while paused (i gues this was losely answers already with a yes)?

- Graphic menu options.

Will you allow us to improve graphic to our system. Multi options, aka more then just a shadow/resolution slider?.My biggest fear is you will just use the same methods you used with ME2, zero options!.

Last, why havnt we gotten any solid PC  information yet (not counting your riddles and PR speechs on this board)?.I know you gotta market to the "awesome" audience (any platform), but atleast throw the PC market a bone or two about any possible changes!. =(

Just wondering!.

Modifié par Zhijn, 18 novembre 2010 - 01:00 .

[lv12medic]

I don't know what camera is better to use. The isometric camera in DA:O had some issues in my opinion. It'd seem to have magical rubber bands attached to it that would cause it to snap back for no apparent reason. Though, the isometric cam was most useful in long range engagements or if your party was spread all over the place. I don't think the combat is going to be at such long ranges (as in say the Kocari Wilds) because I asked in the game mechanics Q&A Thread about archery at long distances causing some enemies to aggro and others to pick their nose. The answer was that if that happens in DA2 it's a bug. So either the situational awareness of the AI is better or the combat is at closer ranges.



And with the emphasis on getting in the action faster (especially for melee characters) I believe a logical conclusion is that long range engagements are out.



We'll have to wait and see how combat plays out to see if the isometric camera really is a missed asset or not. It doesn't sound overly bad though, considering the cam sits over the shoulder default and has the ability to move in or out (increase or decrease field of vision and maybe alter pitch a little as you go in and out) and yaw (as in rotate off the y-axis to look left and right). Atleast there is no Roll support otherwise I'd be puking my guts out. Like trying to play Mirror's Edge without the focus point...

[Larryboy_Dragon]

I’m a console gamer, but my game sensibilities are firmly rooted in a history of PC RPG gaming. I wish I could say that I’m not buying into the Dragon Age 2 hype and that I wasn’t going to buy the game – but frankly, even dumbed-down pseudo RPGs are thin on the ground these days. You got to take what you can get.

Mass Effect 2 was a travesty, with RPG elements so weak that they were functionally non-existent. It’s the first Bioware game that I’ve been unable to play a 2nd time through, and the first Bioware game for which I haven’t bought all the addons/expansions.

I think that Bioware’s comments about Dragon Age as a ‘spiritual successor’ to Baldur’s Gate is now seen as the marketing line that it was. I mean, maybe that was the original attention, but Dragon Age 2 is clearly aimed at the mass market and not something that is going to grab BG2 fans.



I should be clear – I don’t begrudge Bioware aiming for the mass market. They are a business and this is a business decision rather then an artistic one. RPG gamers just have to accept that the genre is gone. I’d rather that Bioware just said, “Look – hardcore RPGs aren’t something we will be doing any more. They don’t sell. We’ll be doing action RPGs from now on, action games with strong story lines.” It might not be popular, but it would be honest and it would let the RPG oldtimers know that they should move on and stop cluttering up the place with angry posts.

It’s sad that Dragon Age, Oblivion and Fallout are seen as hardcore RPGs by the press when all three are decidedly watered down. Obsidian bravely gave the genre one last kick with New Vegas, but I don’t think they will get a 2nd chance and they were the only other holdouts.

[ErichHartmann]

Vaeliorin wrote...

I always used the tactical camera for targeting spells that weren't single target. The lack of it is going to make AoE spells all but useless to me (especially since I refuse to play on a difficulty without friendly fire.)

That's about the only time I use "eagle eye".  Beyond that I like being up closer and personal to be right in the violence.  

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 18 novembre 2010 - 01:01 .

[Khayness]

Larryboy_Dragon wrote...

but frankly, even dumbed-down pseudo RPGs are thin on the ground these days

The sad truth.

In the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man is king. But that king got a bit nearsighted and a lot more grumpier lately.

[Craig McDermott]

In Exile wrote...
Here is the thing, and this is something very partial to me.

The games I like are very few. Games like New Vegas, or Baldur's Gate, or Fallout 1/2, with their puppet protagonist, they don't appeal to me.

Mass Effect was incredible, because here you had this voiced protagonist, alpha-type leader, who you could still pick & choose and alter the personality for. There was one game that followed up on this: Mass Effect 2.

Dragon Age 2 is the third game, ever, that gives me what I want. So I have such a hard time caring when I hear about PC gamers and their tens of 90s era games.

Yeah I agree bro, Baldur's Gate was crap because the characters weren't alpha enough.  Shepard was pretty alpha, but have you played Call of Duty: Black Ops yet?  The characters are even more alpha, and fully voiced by stars such as Sam Worthington, who was pretty alpha in Avatar and Clash of the Titans.  Clearly a much better game than Baldur's Gate or Fallout 2.

[Maria Caliban]

Utoryo wrote...

Here's an idea based on the conversation above: allow a free-roam and/or top-down camera only under the following condition: the game is paused OR no characters are selected (which you'd simply do by clicking anywhere empty on the battlefield or press a hotkey). If a character is selected and you unpause, you immediately enter his/her viewpoint.

No, no, no!

There's nothing worse than selecting a character then having that character be unselected because you didn't hit the right spot.

[In Exile]

Xewaka wrote...
The Depth angles you show were the ones I resorted to when isometric was inefficient (very long range engagements, where the roam wouldn't reach). The rest of the time I was on iso, because combat tended to close quickly into melee and the screen got too cluttered for my taste.
However, I also played with tactics disabled an controlling manually each party member, so I needed a more detached camera for playability.
Were you relying on tactics or manually controlling party members?

Manual only. My biggest fear for DA2 as a PC port was that tactics would be mandatory.

[Kilshrek]

In Exile wrote...

*snips*

Dragon Age 2 is the third game, ever, that gives me what I want. So I have such a hard time caring when I hear about PC gamers and their tens of 90s era games.

I don't get what you're trying to say here. I think most of the complaints have been primarily about the mechanics and/or general gameplay, not about the characters or how you play them. Just because you only care about only three games makes your feelings more special than the feelings of others over tens of games?

I personally don't really care too much for Fallout 3, but that's simply because it'd been mutilated.

I'm a PC gamer, I love the games of the 90's, I have a whinge about the good old days and all these new games discarding the old ways and tradition and all that stuff. Don't recall asking anyone but the devs to care though, because they're the ones who make the games we play.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
There were environments in DAO where your enemies were up on a platform relative to the party, and the iso cam was the only way to get a good look at their arrangement (the low-angle camera couldn't see their feet).

Can you give me an example? I can't think of a case. For example, in the Korcari Wilds, the darkspawn archers you can just click and highlight so long as they are within the right distance cone.

[IRMcGhee]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Vaeliorin wrote...

I always used the tactical camera for targeting spells that weren't single target. The lack of it is going to make AoE spells all but useless to me (especially since I refuse to play on a difficulty without friendly fire.)

Same here.  The game world needs to make sense, and to make sense explosions have to be dangerous.

I'd be surprised if you couldn't tweak the .ini file to allow Blue on Blue damage at all difficulty levels. At least we "PC-gaming ubermensch" will:whistle: Although depending on how good or otherwise the game's Artificial Stupidity is, I'm not sure if it's entirely a bad thing. Yes, it'll be less "realistic", but you won't have situations where allied NPCs quite happily run into grease fires or persistent AOE spells and commit sideways ! 

[StingingVelvet]

Craig McDermott wrote...

In Exile wrote...
Here is the thing, and this is something very partial to me.

The games I like are very few. Games like New Vegas, or Baldur's Gate, or Fallout 1/2, with their puppet protagonist, they don't appeal to me.

Mass Effect was incredible, because here you had this voiced protagonist, alpha-type leader, who you could still pick & choose and alter the personality for. There was one game that followed up on this: Mass Effect 2.

Dragon Age 2 is the third game, ever, that gives me what I want. So I have such a hard time caring when I hear about PC gamers and their tens of 90s era games.

Yeah I agree bro, Baldur's Gate was crap because the characters weren't alpha enough.  Shepard was pretty alpha, but have you played Call of Duty: Black Ops yet?  The characters are even more alpha, and fully voiced by stars such as Sam Worthington, who was pretty alpha in Avatar and Clash of the Titans.  Clearly a much better game than Baldur's Gate or Fallout 2.

Some sort of Bruce Willis choose-you-own-adventure interactive DVD would be the ultimate Alpha, bro.

[Kilshrek]

Craig McDermott wrote...

Hopefully this trend continues and DA3 is an Xbox 360 exclusive, first-person Mabari hound-petting simulator. With Kinect support of course so players can waggle their arms around to pet the hound.

There should also be an auto-slobber dispenser.

[DPB]

Very disappointing. I've always maintained that I didn't care what they did with the camera as long it could be detached from the currently controlled character, but we're not even getting that now. And it's more annoying because some of the previews in August said that we could do just that.



In the future, please don't publicise features that you're not certain are going to make it into the game. It only brings to mind Lionhead Studios and all the things Bethseda promised Radiant AI could do, which never materialised.

[Khayness]

Craig McDermott wrote...

Yeah I agree bro, Baldur's Gate was crap because the characters weren't alpha enough.  Shepard was pretty alpha, but have you played Call of Duty: Black Ops yet?  The characters are even more alpha, and fully voiced by stars such as Sam Worthington, who was pretty alpha in Avatar and Clash of the Titans.  Clearly a much better game than Baldur's Gate or Fallout 2.

Poor bro musta have issues, since CHARNAME and Vault Boy was supposed to be him. He ain't no alpha fo' sure!

[ErichHartmann]

Craig McDermott wrote...

In Exile wrote...
Here is the thing, and this is something very partial to me.

The games I like are very few. Games like New Vegas, or Baldur's Gate, or Fallout 1/2, with their puppet protagonist, they don't appeal to me.

Mass Effect was incredible, because here you had this voiced protagonist, alpha-type leader, who you could still pick & choose and alter the personality for. There was one game that followed up on this: Mass Effect 2.

Dragon Age 2 is the third game, ever, that gives me what I want. So I have such a hard time caring when I hear about PC gamers and their tens of 90s era games.

Yeah I agree bro, Baldur's Gate was crap because the characters weren't alpha enough.  Shepard was pretty alpha, but have you played Call of Duty: Black Ops yet?  The characters are even more alpha, and fully voiced by stars such as Sam Worthington, who was pretty alpha in Avatar and Clash of the Titans.  Clearly a much better game than Baldur's Gate or Fallout 2.

My last Baldur's Gate character was a mean killing machine.  Can't get more "Alpha" than that.

[In Exile]

Craig McDermott wrote...
Yeah I agree bro, Baldur's Gate was crap because the characters weren't alpha enough.  Shepard was pretty alpha, but have you played Call of Duty: Black Ops yet?  The characters are even more alpha, and fully voiced by stars such as Sam Worthington, who was pretty alpha in Avatar and Clash of the Titans.  Clearly a much better game than Baldur's Gate or Fallout 2.

Ah, I see, you're illiterate. I'm so sorry to hear about your disability.

Kilshrek wrote...
I don't get what you're trying to say here. I
think most of the complaints have been primarily about the mechanics
and/or general gameplay, not about the characters or how you play them.
Just because you only care about only three games makes your feelings
more special than the feelings of others over tens of games?

You're close. The fact I have 3 games I really like should mean absolutely nothing. No one has an obligation to care I have really specific taste. I have no right to be catered to.

So why should anyone care about this laments of the PC gamer? Why are anyone's feelings special? The answer, IMO, is that they are not.

[Piecake]

Larryboy_Dragon wrote...

I’m a console gamer, but my game sensibilities are firmly rooted in a history of PC RPG gaming. I wish I could say that I’m not buying into the Dragon Age 2 hype and that I wasn’t going to buy the game – but frankly, even dumbed-down pseudo RPGs are thin on the ground these days. You got to take what you can get.
Mass Effect 2 was a travesty, with RPG elements so weak that they were functionally non-existent. It’s the first Bioware game that I’ve been unable to play a 2nd time through, and the first Bioware game for which I haven’t bought all the addons/expansions.
I think that Bioware’s comments about Dragon Age as a ‘spiritual successor’ to Baldur’s Gate is now seen as the marketing line that it was. I mean, maybe that was the original attention, but Dragon Age 2 is clearly aimed at the mass market and not something that is going to grab BG2 fans.

I should be clear – I don’t begrudge Bioware aiming for the mass market. They are a business and this is a business decision rather then an artistic one. RPG gamers just have to accept that the genre is gone. I’d rather that Bioware just said, “Look – hardcore RPGs aren’t something we will be doing any more. They don’t sell. We’ll be doing action RPGs from now on, action games with strong story lines.” It might not be popular, but it would be honest and it would let the RPG oldtimers know that they should move on and stop cluttering up the place with angry posts.
It’s sad that Dragon Age, Oblivion and Fallout are seen as hardcore RPGs by the press when all three are decidedly watered down. Obsidian bravely gave the genre one last kick with New Vegas, but I don’t think they will get a 2nd chance and they were the only other holdouts.

I really dislike such sweeping like these.  And I really am starting to hate the word 'streamlined', what with the negative connotations that this board has infused with it.

Anyways, hopefully the camera doesnt automatically switch to one of your companions if you want to use one of their abilities.  I think that would solve my two seperate rooms issue.  I still think id rather have a full range iso camera though.  Oh well, ill soon find out

[shadowpiranha]

JohnEpler wrote...

Khayness wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Continue with the PC elitism at your own risk.

Burn the PC Elitist!

And if at any point in that article, someone had said 'oh, and the other reason we're supporting the PC as a gaming platform is because people who play console games are all below 100 IQ' then you might have a point.

As I've mentioned - I personally prefer the PC. My favourite games are almost all either PC-exclusive or have PC as the lead platform.

That doesn't mean, however, that I think people who enjoy console games are any dumber.

But I've ventured down this path enough, and I really have no interest in defending my... desire for people to be respectful? I guess that's what I'm being called out on?

You know, I am primarily a PC gamer, don't even own a console, and I'm with you on this one. There's absolutely no need to judge a person's intelligence by the way they choose to play their games, and it's frankly stupid to think otherwise. Until there is proof of the correlation between preference regarding gaming platforms and a person's IQ, it's a matter of belittiling those with different views than our own, which is disrespectful and doesn't speak much for anyone's intelligence, truth be told.

[Apollo Starflare]

StingingVelvet wrote...

Well you have to understand that to a lot of us older PC-centric gamers we feel like our hobby is literally dying. 
That is very exaggerated of course, but it feels like that, it feels almost like we are under attack.  For years we had what we consider to be the best RPGs, tactical RPGs with real choice and consequence, 100s of hours of content and real expansions with dozens more.  Mod tools, free additions, long-term support and patching, complex gameplay that rewarded focus and interest rather than simple twitch gameplay.  For people like me RPGs since KotOR, roughly, have been slowly but surely killing off these benefits.  Simplified gameplay, short and over-priced DLC rather than expansions, lack of support, lack of tactics, lack of real choice and consequence, etc. etc..

Dragon Age, while not perfect, was a step by Bioware back toward the 90's era of RPGs.  They said it was a spiritual successor, it led on the PC and took advantage of the PC's technical superiorities, and it played like a tactical RPG, not a twitch game.  We even got a real expansion for it.  We were thrilled, even if it was not as good as BG2 and Planescape and all those it was still a great homage and a step in a lovely direction.

So combine those feeling of disappointment and of being under attack with the pleasure we felt at Dragon Age and then BOOM, add-in a seemingly streamlined and console-focused sequel to Dragon Age that seems to, on the surface, throw out a lot of that greatness.

It's kind of crushing.

That's the exaggerated and dramatic version of it, the truth varies from person to person.  I myself and more easy-going about it than many, but the core emotions are still there.  It's a shame when your hobby's best days are like 12 years past.

Hey now, I've been playing PC games my whole life as well (two of my favourite genres - point and click adventure and the flight combat sim - barely seem to exist anymore), I just can't afford the upgrade at the moment. I do understand the point of view you have put forth, maybe it's the fact I didn't get into Bioware games until KotOR (quite simply, I wasn't a D&D fan growing up but I loved Star Wars) but I just can't see why so much import is placed on one camera angle. Sure there are some other details that people are unhappy with but very few are actually examples of a console focus, people just like to say they are (a voiced protagonist and dialogue wheel being a key example, as well as the companion outfits.)

Other than that we don't know anything near enough about the game to consider it a streamlined dumbed down Dragon Age. That there is one of the key issues at the current time: Not knowing enough and wanting to know it all right now. I do agree that Bioware need to address the needs of the PC community in plenty of time before the pre-order end date for the sig edition though.

I don't see DA2 being that different to DAO in the core 'is it a modern or old school RPG' stakes. It'll have overpriced DLC, like Origins, It'll have tactical combat, like Origins. It won't live up to the memories of older RPG's for any number of reasons both real and imagined, like Origins...

[In Exile]

Khayness wrote...
Poor bro musta have issues, since CHARNAME and Vault Boy was supposed to be him. He ain't no alpha fo' sure!

Aww, aren't you cute! I certanly don't like schadenfreude, but thinking of you and the death of RPGs on the PC just warms my heart a little. Knowing obnoxious people can't get what they want is just a sort of justice.

[Khayness]

In Exile wrote...

Aww, aren't you cute! I certanly don't like schadenfreude, but thinking of you and the death of RPGs on the PC just warms my heart a little. Knowing obnoxious people can't get what they want is just a sort of justice.

Aw bro that was uncalled fo'!

Let's go drive-by and cap some fools, I'll bring the car.

[Utoryo]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Utoryo wrote...

Here's an idea based on the conversation above: allow a free-roam and/or top-down camera only under the following condition: the game is paused OR no characters are selected (which you'd simply do by clicking anywhere empty on the battlefield or press a hotkey). If a character is selected and you unpause, you immediately enter his/her viewpoint.

No, no, no!

There's nothing worse than selecting a character then having that character be unselected because you didn't hit the right spot.

Uhm... that's not going to happen because selecting characters uses the left mouse button, whereas asking your character to do something uses the right mouse button. So if you left click at the wrong place, you'll just have to click again, exactly as in Origins except your lost your original selection (which you obviously wanted to change anyway).

[Wicked 702]

Khayness wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Aww, aren't you cute! I certanly don't like schadenfreude, but thinking of you and the death of RPGs on the PC just warms my heart a little. Knowing obnoxious people can't get what they want is just a sort of justice.

Aw bro that was uncalled fo'!

Let's go drive-by and cap some fools, I'll bring the car.

Don't joke about that. I live in Long Beach. Hehe.

"Blam, blam sucka!"

Modifié par Wicked 702, 18 novembre 2010 - 01:21 .