1008 réponses à ce sujet

[Ziggeh]

Monica83 wrote...

Im whit sarah in this its a shame... A true shame.. Bioware slapped the face at the old style rpg fan only to have a better game for console... The funny thing is many people puchased origins for console and enjoyed it.. Now we have a complete different title that lose the soul of the original game... Full of cutdown features and very small better things..So from a original game now we have a sort of dragon effect... Much more mass effect than dragon age.. And all for what?.... I have nothing aganist console or consoleplayers.. I think a title like dragon age origins on the console market is something new and this is good... Why make a clone of another game?... Why let lose the soul of a game only to make it similiar to another one?... Since i puchased dragon age origins because i loved it... And... Yes DAO was not perfect... A sequel with the same engine but with more features and many fix will be awesome... Much more awesome than a short broken game....

This is really a shame... and from bioware... gaah

I want the biowar of the past.. The biowar that makes awesome "RPG"... and not the bioware that make "Videogames"....
With the choice of the market if i search a game more actiony i have many titles much better than dragon age 2 why kill your originality?

Monica.....You do realise you're a parody of the "negative" position, right?

It's a perfectly reasonable position with a number of legitimate concerns and complaints, but it's impossible to take seriously if you're using phrases like "slap in the face" and words like "betrayed".

If I wanted to write a comedy post going through the generic, repetitive, memetic arguments that come up in every gaming forum prior to any games release I would be hard pressed to make it more on target than anything you post.

I apologise that this is ad hominem but it detracts from any actual discussion we might be having if people are constantly responding to the same irrational and unreasonable arguments. I might be interested in what you have to say, as I'm sure others would be, if you would only stop posting in strings of pointless rhetoric.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 19 novembre 2010 - 01:04 .

[Saibh]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Morroian wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Essentially telling people if they don't have nice things to say to GTFO? Yeah I'd call that a tirade.

I think you have a comprehension problem, that is so not what he was saying.

Fair enough, thats totally how it comes off though. I think for me I'm just all sorts of fed up with PC users being left out in the cold when it comes to gameplay footage, cameras etc. I mean if you want to play to each platforms strengths, man up and do it, don't remove stuff from the PC version just because it won't work on the precious 360 sku. Which is obviously where the focus is because they think they'll magically sell an extra few million that way, which isn't going to happen anyway.

BioWare has released no gameplay footage, period, console or otherwise. They are choosing to only demo the 360 for several reasons, but the footage there is supposed to be under NDA protection.

[ErichHartmann]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Good god Bioware just sucks at everything I guess. I concede to the great will of the Message BOard

And all other RPG developers can do no wrong!  Bring on Diablo III!   In all seriousness the need to have every little detail you love in an RPG is just not feasible.  I have yet to play the holy grail of RPGs that gives me everything I want.  I can tell which posters care more about game mechanics than the actual storyline, which is far more interesting than bashing monsters.  Not that I don't enjoy killing on an epic scale.     

[Aumata]

I think Bioware was aiming for accessibly with depth. Have more people come and enjoy there games, at the same time cater to their fans. Which is a hard thing to do, the only thing they can do is show the PC version, and how the camera is used. By the way, I'm a console player, the only thing that erks me is that stupid having to do normal attack by pressing buttons. Took me from KOTOR1 to DA:O to stop pressing the X button to do regular attacks. The static armor is on the meh side, as I can still upgrade their armor. Not really seeing the Mass Effect of Dragon Age though. The dialog wheel for me plays the same as the original dialog line, just has one has a voice the other is mute. But again that just me.

[Lord_Valandil]

Saibh wrote...

Sarah, the mods have said time and time again, there is a difference between being politically correct and polite. Just be polite. There are plenty of people here who are unhappy with the changes but still remain civil.

Indeed.

[upsettingshorts]

"It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine."

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 19 novembre 2010 - 01:13 .

[Xewaka]

KhorinShizucor wrote...

Some people actually don't mind change, especially if some perceive changes to be improvements or preferences.

The problem is, not everyone perceives them as improvements.

I don't mind change, when it works. As a Civ fan, despite the cartloads of troubles Civ V had, most of the changes I found were welcome (hexes instead of squares, no stacks of doom, the State Cities...)

However, going from DA:O to DA:2 means:
Losing two thirds of the character customization to have a fixed origin and an easier story writing job.
Losing the knowledge of what you're saying for voice action.
Losing options in companion configuration, mechanical (I know you can still tinker with their equipment, but they have less slots to tinker with) as well as visual (sorry, I don't care how dodgy you are Isabella, get at least a damn leather cuirass to keep your guts from spilling!)
Losing options in character build (no dual wielding axes, for example) for class focus.
Losing options in encounter handling (the iso camera) to "accomodate to reckless players" (dev quote, not mine).

That's a lot of loss and not enough gain, at least from my point of view.

Comparing the process on Mass Effect 1 to 2, the changes feel more like a zero net sum to me: I missed the Mako but the combat flowed better.

I am not against the systems impletemented in DA:2 in general. I know I have enjoyed games with any and all of those variations. But on Dragon Age they don't feel right. It takes away what made the game stand out amongst the Space Marine Sludge.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Ravenfeeder wrote...

As I said, I may be in a minority of one here.  I play with a mouse, using the keyboard if I have to, but I prefer just a mouse.  I'm not a big fan of WASD either.

I take my hand off the mouse to rest it during conversations (another reason why I didn't like the interrupts in ME2), but my other hand always rests are WASD.  If you saw me at work you'd see my left hand resting at WASD on my office computer.  It's like my home row.

[Tiax Rules All]

I want PC footage .....











Or do I? I just don't know anymore. After hearing the ME multiplayer shooter rumor, I cant think striaght anymore. I kinda feel like crying. (Que BDF saying I cant feel this way)

Prove me wrong Bioware, please, show me the error of my judgement, tell me that my PC and I will be ok..

[Xewaka]

Larryboy_Dragon wrote...

Dumbing something down for the mass market =/= dumbing something down for consoles.

Seeing the butchery Civilization suffered on console, and seeing the fact that the most interesting puzzle in DA:O basic (the Gauntlet bridge) was removed in the console versions (mind plays made me thought that last part is true when it isn't), I'd say some developers don't agree with your statement.

Modifié par Xewaka, 19 novembre 2010 - 01:29 .

[upsettingshorts]

Tiax Rules All wrote...
Or do I? I just don't know anymore. After hearing the ME multiplayer shooter rumor, I cant think striaght anymore. I kinda feel like crying. (Que BDF saying I cant feel this way)

What'd be wrong with a spin off of Mass Effect being in a genre you're not a fan of?  It'd... be a spin off. 

If it turns out to be a Mass Effect version of Starcraft I'll get to ignore it the same way I do Starcraft.

/confused

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 19 novembre 2010 - 01:17 .

[Atakuma]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

I want PC footage .....











Or do I? I just don't know anymore. After hearing the ME multiplayer shooter rumor, I cant think striaght anymore. I kinda feel like crying. (Que BDF saying I cant feel this way)

Prove me wrong Bioware, please, show me the error of my judgement, tell me that my PC and I will be ok..

You can't feel this way!

[Sylvius the Mad]

Xewaka wrote...

I am not against the systems impletemented in DA:2 in general.

I am.

I know I have enjoyed games with any and all of those variations.

I have not.  The dialogue wheel with a voiced protagonist has always, in my experience, produced a lousy game.

[Ziggeh]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
If you saw me at work you'd see my left hand resting at WASD on my office computer.  It's like my home row.

I always find it depressing when I find myself doing that. One can only extract so much fun from excel.

[Wicked 702]

Xewaka wrote...

Larryboy_Dragon wrote...

Dumbing something down for the mass market =/= dumbing something down for consoles.

Seeing the butchery Civilization suffered on console, and seeing the fact that the most interesting puzzle in DA:O basic (the Gauntlet bridge) was removed in the console versions, I'd say some developers don't agree with your statement.

What he's referring to is the audience argument versus the hardware argument. Unless you can provide information showing that the gauntlet puzzle was changed due to hardware limitations, Larryboy is correct in his statement.

Modifié par Wicked 702, 19 novembre 2010 - 01:20 .

[ErichHartmann]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

I am not against the systems impletemented in DA:2 in general.

I am.

I know I have enjoyed games with any and all of those variations.

I have not.  The dialogue wheel with a voiced protagonist has always, in my experience, produced a lousy game.

If my memory serves me correct you admitted to not playing The Witcher from beginning to end.  I dare say it's more immersive and intense than most RPGs I have played.  And the dialogue system in no way hurts the story or choices you make. /circular arguments       

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 19 novembre 2010 - 01:21 .

[Merci357]

Larryboy_Dragon wrote...

*Urge to throttle…. Rising.*

Seriously? We’re still blaming ‘the consoles’? DA:O was fine on consoles. Morrowind was fine on consoles. Risen was fine on consoles. Fallout New Vegas was fine on consoles. Complex RPGs work fine on consoles.
Dumbing something down for the mass market =/= dumbing something down for consoles.

And contrary to the misconception of some, you also don't have to be a "console player", whatever that might be, to enjoy games like Jade Empire or ME2. Neither was released on the only console I own, a PS3, so obviously I played them on PC, like 90% of all games I play.
I understand were some, like Monica, are coming from. There aren't that many RPGs released once a year, and to see the "flagship", that many hold at heart since more then a decade, moving into a position to generate more mainstream interest, isn't a comforting thought. Since I value characters, plot, choices, cinematic presentation at lot more then some features like isometric view (that I rarely used) or a silent PC, I'm still fine with DA2. The supposed ME spinoff shooter might not be fine anymore. It's a thin line.
However, as with music or books, games are just a form of entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. Either you like it, or you don't, there is no right or wrong about it. And if your favorite author, actor, band tries something different for a change, what can you do?

[kr33g0r]

Xewaka wrote...

Larryboy_Dragon wrote...

Dumbing something down for the mass market =/= dumbing something down for consoles.

Seeing the butchery Civilization suffered on console, and seeing the fact that the most interesting puzzle in DA:O basic (the Gauntlet bridge) was removed in the console versions, I'd say some developers don't agree with your statement.

What? They removed that? That wasn't even a difficult puzzle to work on! (took a bit to solve though)

Modifié par kr33g0r, 19 novembre 2010 - 01:23 .

[lrrose]

Xewaka wrote...

KhorinShizucor wrote...

Some people actually don't mind change, especially if some perceive changes to be improvements or preferences.

The problem is, not everyone perceives them as improvements.

I don't mind change, when it works. As a Civ fan, despite the cartloads of troubles Civ V had, most of the changes I found were welcome (hexes instead of squares, no stacks of doom, the State Cities...)

However, going from DA:O to DA:2 means:
Losing two thirds of the character customization to have a fixed origin and an easier story writing job.
Losing the knowledge of what you're saying for voice action.
Losing options in companion configuration, mechanical (I know you can still tinker with their equipment, but they have less slots to tinker with) as well as visual (sorry, I don't care how dodgy you are Isabella, get at least a damn leather cuirass to keep your guts from spilling!)
Losing options in character build (no dual wielding axes, for example) for class focus.
Losing options in encounter handling (the iso camera) to "accomodate to reckless players" (dev quote, not mine).

That's a lot of loss and not enough gain, at least from my point of view.

Comparing the process on Mass Effect 1 to 2, the changes feel more like a zero net sum to me: I missed the Mako but the combat flowed better.

I am not against the systems impletemented in DA:2 in general. I know I have enjoyed games with any and all of those variations. But on Dragon Age they don't feel right. It takes away what made the game stand out amongst the Space Marine Sludge.

The quote about accomodating reckless players refers to Bioware having to reduce Origins' difficulty, not the loss of the iso camera, which is apparently an aesthetic thing.

[Nefario]

kr33g0r wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Larryboy_Dragon wrote...

Dumbing something down for the mass market =/= dumbing something down for consoles.

Seeing the butchery Civilization suffered on console, and seeing the fact that the most interesting puzzle in DA:O basic (the Gauntlet bridge) was removed in the console versions, I'd say some developers don't agree with your statement.

What? They removed that? That wasn't even a difficult puzzle!

No, it was not removed. I don't know why this person thinks that it was.

[Xewaka]

kr33g0r wrote...

What? They removed that? That wasn't even a difficult puzzle to work on! (took a bit to solve though)

I didn't say difficult, I said interesting. Beats Towers of Hanoi, anyway.

Nefario wrote...

No, it was not removed. I don't know why this person thinks that it was.

I remember reading it in an article discussing the different versions of DA:O. My mind might be a bit foggy on that though.

Modifié par Xewaka, 19 novembre 2010 - 01:25 .

[Nefario]

Xewaka wrote...

Nefario wrote...

No, it was not removed. I don't know why this person thinks that it was.

I remember reading it in an article discussing the different versions of DA:O. My mind might be a bit foggy on that though.

You might foggily remember reading it, but I vividly remember playing it.

[Onyx Jaguar]

What was the Gauntlet bridge and where was it at

[Xewaka]

Nefario wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Nefario wrote...

No, it was not removed. I don't know why this person thinks that it was.

I remember reading it in an article discussing the different versions of DA:O. My mind might be a bit foggy on that though.

You might foggily remember reading it, but I vividly remember playing it.

My mistake then. I'll correct it.

[Wicked 702]

Nefario wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Nefario wrote...

No, it was not removed. I don't know why this person thinks that it was.

I remember reading it in an article discussing the different versions of DA:O. My mind might be a bit foggy on that though.

You might foggily remember reading it, but I vividly remember playing it.

It's there, but if I remember correctly (foggyness all around), it was changed (nerfed) in the console versions. Not because they couldn't "handle" it however.