1008 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

What was the Gauntlet bridge and where was it at

[kr33g0r]

When you go to find Andraste's ashe's. It is the puzzle where you have to position your party on certain blocks to get the bridge pieces to stay solid while you move your PC across it.

I think the difference was that once a piece of bridge was solid it stayed solid. In the PC version you had to position characters on certain blocks and if a piece was solid and you moved the character the piece would disappear.

Modifié par kr33g0r, 19 novembre 2010 - 01:31 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Yep that was definately in the 360 version

[Wicked 702]

Here from the wiki:

♦ PC to Console Difference: In the console versions of the game (XBox 360 and PS3), it is possible to get the bridge completely solid without having to inch the Warden across tile by tile. Once the bridge is solid, the Warden can run all the way across, though companions will not follow until the Warden reaches the other side.

Extremely minor difference. Speaks nothing to any console "limitations" in any way.

Modifié par Wicked 702, 19 novembre 2010 - 01:32 .

[kr33g0r]

Wicked 702 wrote...

Here from the wiki:

♦ PC to Console Difference: In the console versions of the game (XBox 360 and PS3), it is possible to get the bridge completely solid without having to inch the Warden across tile by tile. Once the bridge is solid, the Warden can run all the way across, though companions will not follow until the Warden reaches the other side.

Extremely minor difference. Speaks nothing to any console "limitations" in any way.

That is just a weird change and as you say, is not a console limitation. I wonder why they changed it then? I found the whole inching process more fun because it was more challenging

[Onyx Jaguar]

Kind of sounds like a weird pacing thing to me, though I bet my opinion would be different if I did the inching version first

[Wicked 702]

Same here. The change seems rather meaningless to me.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Perhaps there was clipping issues on the port to consoles t hat would cause the PC to fall through on the changes regardless of whether or not they were suppose to be solid

[Malanek]

Wicked 702 wrote...

Here from the wiki:

♦ PC to Console Difference: In the console versions of the game (XBox 360 and PS3), it is possible to get the bridge completely solid without having to inch the Warden across tile by tile. Once the bridge is solid, the Warden can run all the way across, though companions will not follow until the Warden reaches the other side.

Extremely minor difference. Speaks nothing to any console "limitations" in any way.

That means the puzzle would be quite different. If the pieces stayed solid all that means is that you would have to step on every piece, yes? With the pc version you would have to get about 8 pieces in exactly the right order. Having a tactical camera would make it a little quicker just because you can control the characters and watch the bridge easier. I doubt the puzzle got too difficult because of the camera though.

Question, did the console have the ability to order characters to stand where they are? Without that the bridge puzzle would have been impossible.

[Wicked 702]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Perhaps there was clipping issues on the port to consoles t hat would cause the PC to fall through on the changes regardless of whether or not they were suppose to be solid

Yes, or get stuck in the geometry. Very possible. Probably figured it wasn't worth spending the time fixing the issue so they just worked around it.

[Wicked 702]

Malanek999 wrote...

That means the puzzle would be quite different. If the pieces stayed solid all that means is that you would have to step on every piece, yes? With the pc version you would have to get about 8 pieces in exactly the right order. Having a tactical camera would make it a little quicker just because you can control the characters and watch the bridge easier. I doubt the puzzle got too difficult because of the camera though.

Question, did the console have the ability to order characters to stand where they are? Without that the bridge puzzle would have been impossible.

Of course. The game automatically puts the party on "hold" and you can move each one separately. I used "hold" all over the place when I wanted to solo battles or set up ambushes. Worked fine on the 360.

Edit: Remember, the camera on consoles wasn't TOTALLY fixed. Just the zoom distance, so no iso view. We could still move to a 3/4 overhead view and back down. Plenty of vision for your basic camera. Sucky draw distance though as I've mentioned before. But I chalk that up to a port issue as I've seen plenty of games since with no draw distance problems.

Modifié par Wicked 702, 19 novembre 2010 - 01:46 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Wicked 702 wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Fair enough, thats totally how it comes off though. I think for me I'm just all sorts of fed up with PC users being left out in the cold when it comes to gameplay footage, cameras etc. I mean if you want to play to each platforms strengths, man up and do it, don't remove stuff from the PC version just because it won't work on the precious 360 sku. Which is obviously where the focus is because they think they'll magically sell an extra few million that way, which isn't going to happen anyway.

And while I have agreed with many other things you've said, that part is totally illogical. Pray, what feature have they removed from the game that wasn't already working just fine on the consoles?

Customizable equipment? No, that one worked just fine.
Multiple races/character creation? No, that worked just fine too.
Camera views? No comparsion can be made, the consoles never had anything but OTS.

Look, I share your frustration in what appears to be an obvious move towards removing various "options" from the game. But let's be real about this, it has NOTHING to do with one system's limitations over another's. Your argument would hold weight if we didn't have DAO, fully completed, as proof of what "can" and "can't" be done. But since we do, we already know that removing things that worked clearly has nothing to do with limitations.

So what does it have to do with? Well, think about it. Even COD games have a two year development cycle. (Yes, we all know that a new game comes out every year but it's two different companies alternating.) If it still takes them two whole years to BARELY tweak and improve a game and repackage it for sale, how in the world would Bioware be able to handle putting together a full-bodied RPG in only one? Simple, you already know the answer. Blame the development time, not the hardware...at least until we hear of some "new" feature that gets scrubbed or changed because it didn't work out.

The tactical overhead camera comes instantly to mind right away. And the fact that its not going to be in the PC version to me says very loudly that the PC version is most likely ported up from the lead sku which is more than likely the 360.

[Lord_Valandil]

I can only say that I hated the damn bridge...

[Wicked 702]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The tactical overhead camera comes instantly to mind right away. And the fact that its not going to be in the PC version to me says very loudly that the PC version is most likely ported up from the lead sku which is more than likely the 360.

Well except that they've specifically said the opposite, that all three platforms are being developed simultaneously. So you basically have to take the position that they're flat out lying and then base your assumptions on that. Or otherwise choose to have a different opinion on the matter.

I've just never heard of anyone successfully and cleanly putting together a full RPG in just a year, despite a fairly complete engine. Seems to me like the axe would have to start hitting the chopping block in order to make that happen.

...Course, that's just my opinion.

[AtreiyaN7]

The devs clarified earlier on in this thread that we will be able to pull back and get something close to an overhead view, but as stated in the article, there's no longer going to be the old overhead tactical view on the PC. It has nothing to do with being ported from the console. As was stated in the article:

The bigger change, however, is that the game will no longer support an overhead tactical view on any platform. This was an art and combat-design decision, the BioWare rep told me today. Support for that Baldur's Gate-style view forced the artists to design rooms and scenes that didn't have important things on their ceilings and skies — which top-down players wouldn't see. It also forced the designers into an awkward spot where they had to accommodate top-down turn-taking players and behind-the-back action-first players. By catering to the more reckless of those playing styles, the designers were forced to make the game's difficulty fairly low. Making all players play from some sort of from-the-rear camera view alleviates that. But! PC gamers, your version will include a special option to zoom the camera out, just not up. Console gamers won't get that.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 19 novembre 2010 - 03:21 .

[Brockololly]

I expect Inception style ceiling combat then if the ceilings in DA2 are so freakin' awesome.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Wicked 702 wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The tactical overhead camera comes instantly to mind right away. And the fact that its not going to be in the PC version to me says very loudly that the PC version is most likely ported up from the lead sku which is more than likely the 360.

Well except that they've specifically said the opposite, that all three platforms are being developed simultaneously. So you basically have to take the position that they're flat out lying and then base your assumptions on that. Or otherwise choose to have a different opinion on the matter.

I've just never heard of anyone successfully and cleanly putting together a full RPG in just a year, despite a fairly complete engine. Seems to me like the axe would have to start hitting the chopping block in order to make that happen.

...Course, that's just my opinion.

Devs say that kind of stuff all the time though, and its often not exactly true. Think its one of those we'll need to see actual gameplay of the PC version though.

I haven't either, considering they made alot of changes to not only the art, the core engine, and the way gear, conversations, skills etc are going to work, I hope the fairly short dev cycle isn't setting them up for failure. EA's generally not too tolerable of failure. You see where it got Pandemic, and with EA you're generally only 1 under performing title away from either massive layoffs or closure.

I'm certainly not hitting the panic button yet, but as if I haven't made it pretty obvious over the last few months, I'm not at all digging the direction the franchise is taking.

[kr33g0r]

Brockololly wrote...

I expect Inception style ceiling combat then if the ceilings in DA2 are so freakin' awesome.

haha I know! It is a pretty poor reason for not giving us that camera view

[ErichHartmann]

Pandemic Studios games were simply bad to mediocre. Not surprised they were shut down.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

The devs clarified earlier on in this thread that we will be able to pull back and get something close to an overhead view, but as stated in the article, there's no longer going to be the old overhead tactical view on the PC. It has nothing to do with being ported from the console. As was stated in the article:

The bigger change, however, is that the game will no longer support an overhead tactical view on any platform. This was an art and combat-design decision, the BioWare rep told me today. Support for that Baldur's Gate-style view forced the artists to design rooms and scenes that didn't have important things on their ceilings and skies — which top-down players wouldn't see. It also forced the designers into an awkward spot where they had to accommodate top-down turn-taking players and behind-the-back action-first players. By catering to the more reckless of those playing styles, the designers were forced to make the game's difficulty fairly low. Making all players play from some sort of from-the-rear camera view alleviates that. But! PC gamers, your version will include a special option to zoom the camera out, just not up. Console gamers won't get that.

Why would their be important things on the ceiling? And why were they required to dumb down the difficulty even further? Didn't Origins patches do enough of that? Totally sounds like a cop out answer or just a BS excuse. 

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Pandemic Studios games were simply bad to mediocre. Not surprised they were shut down.

Very true, but I used Pandemic as an example since they were aquired at the same time as Bioware (Elevation Partners) and obviously it didn't take long for EA to give the studio the axe for underperforming.

[lrrose]

This is the third time I've posted this, but the sentence about dumbing down the difficulty to accommodate reckless playing styles refers to Origins, not DA2. No marketing representative would be foolish enough to say that about the product that s/he is currently pitching.

[Nefario]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Why would their be important things on the ceiling? And why were they required to dumb down the difficulty even further? Didn't Origins patches do enough of that? Totally sounds like a cop out answer or just a BS excuse. 

I don't know about the ceiling bit... I kinda feel like that was maybe just an invented attempt to justify their decision.
But the bit about the difficulty - I think that actually referred to the difficulty in Origins being tuned low rather than the difficulty in DA2 being lowered. That's the only way I can read the following statement about the over-the-shoulder view allieviating it, anyways.

Edit: didn't see the prior post; my bad.

Modifié par Nefario, 19 novembre 2010 - 03:54 .

[mesmerizedish]

So, it seems to me that the game is going to control a bit more like World of Warcraft. I don't object to this at all. Playing DA:O, I usually moved with my WASD keys, and zoomed out during combat to get a view of the whole battlefield... which is what I do in WoW. (Hell, WoW even has a click-to-move feature, of which I make occasional use). I don't see too many people actually making a big deal out of these changes, but the few that are complaining are making a big deal out of nothing. Everything you did in Origins, you'll still be able to do.

[AtreiyaN7]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

The devs clarified earlier on in this thread that we will be able to pull back and get something close to an overhead view, but as stated in the article, there's no longer going to be the old overhead tactical view on the PC. It has nothing to do with being ported from the console. As was stated in the article:

The bigger change, however, is that the game will no longer support an overhead tactical view on any platform. This was an art and combat-design decision, the BioWare rep told me today. Support for that Baldur's Gate-style view forced the artists to design rooms and scenes that didn't have important things on their ceilings and skies — which top-down players wouldn't see. It also forced the designers into an awkward spot where they had to accommodate top-down turn-taking players and behind-the-back action-first players. By catering to the more reckless of those playing styles, the designers were forced to make the game's difficulty fairly low. Making all players play from some sort of from-the-rear camera view alleviates that. But! PC gamers, your version will include a special option to zoom the camera out, just not up. Console gamers won't get that.

Why would their be important things on the ceiling? And why were they required to dumb down the difficulty even further? Didn't Origins patches do enough of that? Totally sounds like a cop out answer or just a BS excuse. 

Obviously, the consoles aren't that well equipped to handle the top-down view and a completely tactical approach in DA:O. Their gameplay style probably forced the designers into making DA:O combat easier so that they weren't penalized because of their inability to zoom all the way out like we could on the PC.

The devs have previously stated that they've worked on increasing the combat difficulty in the sequel. Presumably, they settled on a middle ground with the camera that allows them to up the difficulty without penalizing console players with what for them is probably an awkward system (aka the old tactical overhead view). Meanwhile, we still get something close to the old tactical camera on the PC.