1008 réponses à ce sujet

[Marionetten]

Atakuma wrote...

Take advantage how?

By being designed around it. Having a tactical camera allows for far more complex encounters as you can take in more information.

[Weiser_Cain]

Atakuma wrote...

Froody42 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
And this is the problem- they're burying the RPG bits under the rug, like ME2. There is no reason to do that at all, as the success of Origins or the Fallout games shows. Seriously, its like BioWare is ashamed they're making RPGs or something and only want you to see some interactive movie.

That's the impression I got as well... and I still don't understand it.

This assumes that everyone who bought the game loved it, witch is silly.

This is like turning Tetris into a shooter because not everyone loved tetris.

[Razgul]

It's official then. Disappointing, but I'm still going to get the game of course. There's plenty of other stuff about the game I'll probably enjoy.

[Atakuma]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Froody42 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
And this is the problem- they're burying the RPG bits under the rug, like ME2. There is no reason to do that at all, as the success of Origins or the Fallout games shows. Seriously, its like BioWare is ashamed they're making RPGs or something and only want you to see some interactive movie.

That's the impression I got as well... and I still don't understand it.

This assumes that everyone who bought the game loved it, witch is silly.

This is like turning Tetris into a shooter because not everyone loved tetris.

No it isn't. saying "hey, the game sold well so there's nothing wrong with it." is silly

Modifié par Atakuma, 17 novembre 2010 - 11:40 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

What Bioware needs to do is decide what kind of games they want to make. There seems to be an internal struggle over whether or not they want to make action games or RPG's. It seems like they are going closer and closer to the action genre with each new game they release.

[Marionetten]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

What Bioware needs to do is decide what kind of games they want to make. There seems to be an internal struggle over whether or not they want to make action games or RPG's. It seems like they are going closer and closer to the action genre with each new game they release.

I don't think BioWare gets to decide anything. Remember who they work for.

[Beaner28]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Bioware isn't ashamed of making RPG's, they just want more sales and the only way to do that is to dumb the game down to appeal to a wider audience.

In my opinion they got it right with Origins. If you wanted the hardcore experience you bought it for the PC, if you wanted the dumbed down version you bought it for the 360 or PS3.

Why are they trying to fix what wasn't broken? Now it seems all platforms are being dumbed down and PC gamers are getting shafted in favor of consoles.

[Catsith]

So much for thinking like a general. The Bio Docs pimped the hell out of the tactical view in DA:O previews, they were so proud of it. "Zoom in for visceral, bone crushing combat, zoom out and plan like an armchair general"



Once again, I don't understand how other smaller studios can continue to one-up Bioware. Obsidian is working on Dungeon Siege 3 which will be a Diablo/Dragon Age clone, and they have a full working 3rd person and complete tactical view mode with pretty graphics across all three platforms. What's the deal?



The rest of the info is fine. I knew they'd be dumbing down the skills too, but 6 trees with 5-8 abilities and upgrades still sounds decent, and im glad you can still distribute stats.

[AtreiyaN7]

Beaner28 wrote...

Realmjumper wrote...

When I was playing DA: O I used the tactical view because the game was very chaotic. I was almost always outnumbered two to 1 and I needed to see where the heck I was getting shot from.

The eye level view simply did not suffice for that game. The tactical view helped me in tight spots like the Deep Roads or inside buildings so I could see exactly what was behind a door when I opened it.

It goes back to the pen and paper rpgs like Dungeons and Dragons and Pathfinder. When you open a door you have a tactical view as the GM puts his monsters once you are close enough.

The removal of this feature is definitely a dissapointment.

I'd have to agree. The top down view was essentially mandatory for some encounters in Origins. The fight with Zathrian/werewolves in the Nature of the Beast quest is one that comes to mind. I can't imagine doing that fight without a top-down tactical view.

By catering to the more reckless of those playing styles, the designers were forced to make the game's difficulty fairly low.

So instead of including one in DA 2, difficulty is being removed from the game entirely. Great.

That's not what that statement means. To interpret for you: it said that to accommodate BOTH playstyles, they had to make the difficulty lower in DA:O (the first game). By sticking with this new view, they're able to make combat more challenging now in DA2 (the second game). Also, the clarification from the devs earlier means that on the PC you apparently still get something close to the tactical overhead view. *shrug*

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 17 novembre 2010 - 11:42 .

[Khayness]

Don't worry folks, wait till you see the ME3 QTE bossfights!

[Beaner28]

Marionetten wrote...

By being designed around it. Having a tactical camera allows for far more complex encounters as you can take in more information.

This. +10

[Atakuma]

Marionetten wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Take advantage how?

By being designed around it. Having a tactical camera allows for far more complex encounters as you can take in more information.

Then it would essentially be an RTS

[Hardin4188]

Marionetten wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

What Bioware needs to do is decide what kind of games they want to make. There seems to be an internal struggle over whether or not they want to make action games or RPG's. It seems like they are going closer and closer to the action genre with each new game they release.

I don't think BioWare gets to decide anything. Remember who they work for.

Sadly I think you are right. I didn't want to believe the EA from the past few years that talked about changing their image would do this, but I don't think there can be much doubt about it. Not only are these games being dumbed down, they are also getting a price bump to $60 like console games. This is on a platform where games are often released for only $40 or even $30.

[AlanC9]

It's hard to get worked up about what a previewer is saying about a PC camera that he didn't actually see.

Modifié par AlanC9, 17 novembre 2010 - 11:48 .

[Froody42]

Atakuma wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Froody42 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
And this is the problem- they're burying the RPG bits under the rug, like ME2. There is no reason to do that at all, as the success of Origins or the Fallout games shows. Seriously, its like BioWare is ashamed they're making RPGs or something and only want you to see some interactive movie.

That's the impression I got as well... and I still don't understand it.

This assumes that everyone who bought the game loved it, witch is silly.

This is like turning Tetris into a shooter because not everyone loved tetris.

No it isn't. saying "hey, the game sold well so there's nothing wrong with it." is silly

No-one claimed there was nothing wrong with it. But they did have the option to improve on what was there instead of completely changing the direction. With a game this successful, I think this would have been completely viable. If something was wrong with the tactical view, why not improve it instead of throwing it out completely? It can't be broken at its core because many of the greatest RPGs of all time have used it to great effect.

[Marionetten]

Atakuma wrote...

Then it would essentially be an RTS

No, it would be a party based RPG. Think Icewind Dale, Baldur's Gate and so on.

[Razgul]

Well I can put an archer somewhere high whenever possible, voilà, "tactical view".

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Marionetten wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

What Bioware needs to do is decide what kind of games they want to make. There seems to be an internal struggle over whether or not they want to make action games or RPG's. It seems like they are going closer and closer to the action genre with each new game they release.

I don't think BioWare gets to decide anything. Remember who they work for.

Good point. Also, I would like to note that I played Origins on the Xbox and I don't appreciate the comments being made towards console gamers as if they are all idiots. If my PC was up to the task, I would have gotten Origins for it, but it just isn't right now. I'm sure that's the situation for many console gamers, and I don't think it's right to group them all together under stupid.

[Tiax Rules All]

another poor review



makes me feel sad and a little sick. Every time

[eyesofastorm]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

What Bioware needs to do is decide what kind of games they want to make. There seems to be an internal struggle over whether or not they want to make action games or RPG's. It seems like they are going closer and closer to the action genre with each new game they release.

I don't think BioWare gets to decide anything. Remember who they work for.

Good point. Also, I would like to note that I played Origins on the Xbox and I don't appreciate the comments being made towards console gamers as if they are all idiots. If my PC was up to the task, I would have gotten Origins for it, but it just isn't right now. I'm sure that's the situation for many console gamers, and I don't think it's right to group them all together under stupid.

Not that I care a great deal one way or the other, but wouldn't this make you a console gamer by circumstance and a pc gamer at heart, therefore putting you in the group of "smart" folks in the only way that matters?

[upsettingshorts]

Marionetten wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Take advantage how?

By being designed around it. Having a tactical camera allows for far more complex encounters as you can take in more information.

As someone who plays the Total War franchise, with more tactical complexity and scale in the smallest skirmish than any Bioware game has attempted to simulate in the most complicated encounter - statements like these literally make me laugh out loud, and not in the "I'm laughing on the inside" "lol" kind of way.

The zoomed-out isometric camera is just a damn camera.  It's a way of perceiving the tactical situation, not the only "tactical" camera view, and it certainly doesn't preclude it. 

Bioware is betting people will adapt.  They'll be right about most people who loved the isometric camera.  Luddites who can't possibly imagine that a zoomed out third person view will give them an idea of the battle situation are beyond hope as it is.  

The difficulty stuff they described in the article we knew about, what with Friendly Fire being turned off until Nightmare, which is something I don't agree with - but I'm not sure it needs to be lumped in with the camera as Kotaku (or perhaps Bioware's marketing) thought it ought to have been.

Tiax Rules All wrote...

another poor review

makes me feel sad and a little sick. Every time

The previewer's tone was positive.

/picks up face from desk,
//goes back to playing Football Manager
///the most eccentric, bone-headed goalkeeper on the planet is less frustrating than the Bioware forums, seriously

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 novembre 2010 - 11:53 .

[Meltemph]

This is more them trying to clean up the presentation of the game-play, by putting the numbers more in the background to encourage the thought of a more cinematic approach to the game. This does not strike me as "hiding it under the rug" because they are ashamed and horrified that they are making a RPG.

They are not idiots, they know WoW exists, so they know what a large portion of gamers are willing to handle to play a game. Not like it matters though. Anyone who is willing to spend near a half a year or more, complaining about how disappointed and horrified a game is looking, is probably going to buy the game, essentially invalidating the complaints(specially if it sells better then DAO). I'd bet Bioware is just as happy that people who are supposedly "hating the changes" is still sticking around and still showing a rather large amount of interest.

Modifié par Meltemph, 17 novembre 2010 - 11:54 .

[Atakuma]

Marionetten wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Then it would essentially be an RTS

No, it would be a party based RPG. Think Icewind Dale, Baldur's Gate and so on.

You seem to believe that a party based RPG has to be like Baldurs gate and such, whitch isnt true.

[AtreiyaN7]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

another poor review

makes me feel sad and a little sick. Every time

It was not a poor review/preview. It only highlighted the differences and changes; in fact, the last paragraph does say:

What to make of all this? Dragon Age II's lack of depth may have been exaggerated. I'd seen concerns that BioWare was abandoning its roots by making DAII more of a Mass Effect kind of game. I don't see that happening as egregiously here as I think some had feared. This series has been altered for a wider audience, but dumbed down? Sold out? I don't see that. There are classic PC RPG roots here. They're just a little more buried than before.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 17 novembre 2010 - 11:51 .

[StingingVelvet]

JohnEpler wrote...

Since it's a little unclear - you can still pull the camera back and then adjust the yaw, which would allow for a fairly-close-to top-down camera perspective. You aren't stuck with varying degrees of over-the-shoulder.

That's the clarification I was looking for, thank you.  When I read "you can zoom out but no vertical movement" I was like WHAT?  Glad to hear that was poorly worded.

The preview sounded good.  It was honest about the streamlining but also pointed out how it's not THAT bad, which is pretty much my view on it right now.  The RPGs I am currently playing are Fallout: New Vegas and Divinity 2, which are both pure action-RPGs, so it's not like DA2 being more like that is some crime I will never forgive.  My stance mainly is that DA: Origins was unique in that it was a tactical RPG made in the way PC RPGs used to be made, and that made is a lovely and rare experience.  I will be satisfied with a Bioware hack n' slash RPG, but I would be sad to see the uniqueness of DA:O die for the sake of some extra sales you could just budget without in the first place.

Sounds like we will get something in between, which is maybe for the best.