21 réponses à ce sujet

[HippeusOmega]

Can someone give me some adivce on what spells i should pick out. Wanna make a pure offensive caster mage. Not a AW. Talking about using a robe and a stick lol. Thinking i wanna roleplay saying he was born as a Blood Mage but has learned to supress its energy or desire to use it under Irving. Maybe even roleplay i'm his son or some crap lol. But the desires start to come back as he gets away from the circle and is betrayed by Loghain. Anyhow not exactly sure where i should put spells. I usually know maxing out the glyph or mana clash for spell might and such is good as well as Crushing prision. Thinking most focus on the primal tree or select a element. I would probably go with fire or lightning since Morrigan is Ice. Please don't suggest to many sustainables thats what wynne is for she is always my AW.

Stats: All magic i assume?

Weapon: Staff of the Magister Lord
Helm: N/A don't like any of the mage hats whatsoever till Awakening
Robe: Vestment of the Seer or Reaper's Vestment
Gloves: whatever +20% element i choose
Boots: ????

Amulet: High Regard of House dace for +mana and mana regen?
Belt: that new dlc belt from golems
Ring 1: Lifegiver
Ring 2: Key to the City

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Enchanter's Footing, to be replaced by Magus War Boots is probably the best you can get on a caster mage. Lion's Paw is a possible substitute.



I personally go 2 magic/1 Will on level ups and I still empty out my mana in longer fights. Of course I also run as minor healer with Heal and Rejuvenation so... *shrug*



For spells, several Entropy spells are very useful. All Hexes and weakness/paralysis, sleep/horror (though forcing you to take disorient is a bit annoying). Glyphs, as you said, and fire and/or lightning. Fill out the Mage line as well for the damage boost to auto attack and spellpower boost. (Spell Might + Arcane Shield will have give a sizable Def bonus that stays even after turning Spell might off)

[HippeusOmega]

Yeah decided i'm making my Blood Mage a evil character. Its lvl 2 atm but i picked Lightning and Shock since i'm gonna specialize in lightning spells and Drain Life at lvl 2. Since i doubt a blood mage would use creation tree. Thinking i wanna get Animate dead with Mana Clash and crushing prison line spells also.

[Elhanan]

First three Glyphs and Force Field are a must for me.

[termokanden]

This isn't a complete selection but only my most used spells. Healing isn't mentioned here because I keep Wynne with me for that (she has Heal, Regeneration and Group Heal, and then starts picking the spells below).

- Force Field and 3 first Glyphs. As Elhanan said they're pretty much a must.
- At least one Hex. But they are all good.
- Fireball. Cheap AoE damage plus knockdown.
- Winter's Grasp. Best single-target so worth mentioning.
- Cone of Cold. Excellent crowd-control, good damage too.
- Virulent Walking Bomb. One of the most damaging spells, but be careful, obviously
- Blood Wound. No friendly fire, good damage, stuns as well.
- Mana Clash. Actually I currently don't use this. It tends to crash my computer. But it's awesome.

Since you suggest using Lightning, why not go all out and combine it with Spell Might and Blizzard for Storm of the Century. If you want Morrigan to handle the frost spells, that's no problem, the combo still works. Just grab Tempest and Spell Might for your character then.

As for attribute points, I personally prefer to put every single point into Magic. By using Blood Magic some of the time and normal spells otherwise, I rarely run out of mana. If I do, I drink a Lesser Lyrium Potion. They're so cheap.

Modifié par termokanden, 18 novembre 2010 - 03:42 .

[Bozorgmehr]

The OP is going for a purely offensive caster and you guys come up with Glyphs? Force Field? They're defensive spells only; very useful nonetheless, but in no way offensive.

I would go for Blood Wound (best offensive spell imo); Fireball (best anti-archer spell period); Crushing Prison (best single target spell); Cone of Cold (coz it will freeze everything); since you'll have CoC you'll want Rock Fist to shatter (combined with Crushing Prison) it will instakill low level mobs with ease; Walking Bomb (best lvl 1 spell and coolest animation when target blows - I'll take this one just for the lulz - and it is one of the most effective and deadliest spells used with combos); Spell Might is a must for the offensive caster (higher spellpower will make you a better mage); the first two Hexes (they stack, provide a +40% damage bonus and targets are less likely gonna resist spells); the other 2 Hexes are not worth it without Death Cloud; Sleep is great and with Horror deadly (though you might want to use Morrigan, she starts with Horror).

If you like not seeing enemies (except their corpses) use the Storm of the Century; very effective but no fun and it requires a lot of talent points.

All attributes into Magic obviously.

Specs: Blood Magic and AW - ignore before you reach level 14, Blood Wound and Shimmering Shield are what you want (ensure you'll have enough spare points to get one (or both) once you hit level 14)

[termokanden]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

The OP is going for a purely offensive caster and you guys come up with Glyphs? Force Field? They're defensive spells only; very useful nonetheless, but in no way offensive.

I don't make purely offensive mages or pure healers, I make mages that have awesome spell selections.

Oh and glyphs are crucial for several of my offensive strategies, and so is Force Field. Repulsion in a doorway and AoE. Then stack Paralysis on top to stun and more AoE.

Force Field is useful when you manage to grab too much aggro by going all out AoE. Or against Overwhelm, Grab, Crushing Prison, Curse of Mortality, etc. You really aren't wasting your points with Force Field.

There are many reasons to use crowd control/utility spells as an offensive mage. If you go purely for damage spells, you can do fine. But you're missing out. Last but not least, you have enough points for both, so why stubbornly reject to pick awesome crowd control spells?

Spell Might is a must for the offensive caster (higher spellpower will make you a better mage);

Agreed until this point. I'm not so sure about using it all the time. It's really rather expensive and doesn't make a huge difference.

Shimmering Shield are what you want (ensure you'll have enough spare points to get one (or both) once you hit level 14)

OP says he doesn't want an AW, so no Shimmering Shield. It is awesome though, I'll give you that.

Modifié par termokanden, 19 novembre 2010 - 04:03 .

[miltos33]

Even if you play as a pure offensive mage by the time you finish the game you end up with no less than 45 spells. On the other hand, the primal school that includes all the nuke spells is only 16 spells. Therefore, you should pick at least one of the lines which start with the Glyph of Paralysis, Mind Blast, Weakness, or Disorient spells for crowd control.

[Bozorgmehr]

termokanden wrote...

I don't make purely offensive mages or pure healers, I make mages that have awesome spell selections.

Oh and glyphs are crucial for several of my offensive strategies, and so is Force Field. Repulsion in a doorway and AoE. Then stack Paralysis on top to stun and more AoE.

Force Field is useful when you manage to grab too much aggro by going all out AoE. Or against Overwhelm, Grab, Crushing Prison, Curse of Mortality, etc. You really aren't wasting your points with Force Field.

Having a flexible spell selection is one thing, but they are defensive spells (CC at best) - not offensive. They can of course be used to increase other spell's effectiveness.

There are many reasons to use crowd control/utility spells as an offensive mage. If you go purely for damage spells, you can do fine. But you're missing out. Last but not least, you have enough points for both, so why stubbornly reject to pick awesome crowd control spells?

You don't have enough points for both. You'll have that near the end of the game, but early on you'll need spells that cause damage. If you have some points to spare later on, why not, but having to spend 5 points on Glyphs and Force Field is quite a lot. More importantly though, going the damage route yourself sorta forces you to take another mage for healing and buffs. Let them use Force Field and Glyphs (those spells don't need high spellpower anyway)

Agreed until this point. I'm not so sure about using it all the time. It's really rather expensive and doesn't make a huge difference.

Spell Might is pretty useless early game (little mana and a very small spellpower bonus); late game it will give a huge boost and you'll have enough mana to deal with the penalties.

OP says he doesn't want an AW, so no Shimmering Shield. It is awesome though, I'll give you that.

Shimmiring Shield is a defensive buff, it has little to nothing to do with being an AW. I only consider mages using Combat Magic to be Arcane Warriors (they fight with melee weapons); a SS Mage uses spells and a staff - quite a difference imho. Besides what's the alternative? Spirit Healer? Shapeshifting? Both are pretty useless for an offensive mage while ShimShield is the ultimate defensive buff (very high resistance against everything - this spell alone makes Force Field and the Glyph line almost redundant). SS also works nicely with BM - the extra defense, armor, mental/physical/elemental resistance will allow liberal use of spell casting in BM mode. Without, mages are very weak and can't afford to use BM with enemies nearby.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 19 novembre 2010 - 05:34 .

[HippeusOmega]

U guys have given me some good advice

[termokanden]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
Having a flexible spell selection is one thing, but they are defensive spells (CC at best) - not offensive. They can of course be used to increase other spell's effectiveness.

And that's my point. They make it easier to go all out AoE. You don't have to agree with it. I have a lot of experience playing a mage, and I just found glyphs to be too good to pass up.

You don't have enough points for both. You'll have that near the end of the game, but early on you'll need spells that cause damage. If you have some points to spare later on, why not, but having to spend 5 points on Glyphs and Force Field is quite a lot.

 
I tend to run out of things I really want by the end of the game. In the beginning I focus on my main damage spells. For me that is Fireball, Virulent Walking Bomb and Cone of Cold. The big AoEs like Storm of the Century are cool too, but I find them a bit boring.

But in the long run, yeah you do have enough points.

More importantly though, going the damage route yourself sorta forces you to take another mage for healing and buffs. Let them use Force Field and Glyphs (those spells don't need high spellpower anyway)

If you have two mages that's fine. I like being able to choose my party freely and so I grab the essentials for my main character. What I consider to be the essentials anyway.

Spell Might is pretty useless early game (little mana and a very small spellpower bonus); late game it will give a huge boost and you'll have enough mana to deal with the penalties.

Huge boost, no. But yeah it's OK for the late game or if you want Mana Clash or Storm of the Century.

Both are pretty useless for an offensive mage while ShimShield is the ultimate defensive buff (very high resistance against everything - this spell alone makes Force Field and the Glyph line almost redundant).

Uh... no. It really doesn't. Besides it's a huge mana drain. It's a cool spell for sure, but it's not THAT good. 

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Defense is always good, Glyph of Warding is a lot of defense. Sure you can't really move much, but a caster probably isn't going to anyways. And Paralysis Explosion is a nice combo. I don't really use Spell Might a great deal, every now and again right before toggling Arcane Shield/Rock Armor for the number boost, on rough or potentially rough single boss battles... and that's about it. Mana Clash, however, gets a lot of use. Plenty of mages, demons and abominations about.

Haven't worried about a 'healer' my entire current game. My mage Warden has Heal and Rejuvenation, and that's it. Only been a few cases where that hasn't been enough, and two of those were when she was taken out of the fight early by 3-4 simultaneous Holy Smites.

Shimmering is exceptionally nice to have for mitigation, but the continuous combat drain is very counter productive to a caster. And using blood magic to counter it is only partially a good idea.

[termokanden]

Regeneration and Heal are generally enough to get through anything. Still you shouldn't underestimate Group Heal. It's the biggest instant heal and is generally very convenient.

I was thinking... Spellbloom sounds like it's great if you have 2+ mages. I never actually used it though. Maybe it isn't worth the casting time. Anyone tried this?

PS: About Shimmering Shield. Apart from the mana drain, the problem with it is that it works only on yourself. It doesn't save your other party members the way Force Shield or Glyphs can. That's really what it can never replace them.

Modifié par termokanden, 20 novembre 2010 - 07:17 .

[Bozorgmehr]

miltos33 wrote...

Even if you play as a pure offensive mage by the time you finish the game you end up with no less than 45 spells. On the other hand, the primal school that includes all the nuke spells is only 16 spells. Therefore, you should pick at least one of the lines which start with the Glyph of Paralysis, Mind Blast, Weakness, or Disorient spells for crowd control.

Very true, but I think it's pretty irrelevant to look at the spell selection once you completed the game; it's far more interesting (and difficult) to have a good selection right from the start. And since the OP wants to create an offensive mage (not a controller or healer) it makes sense to pick spells that will cause damage first and get spells to enhance/support/improve later.

termokanden wrote...

And that's my point. They make it easier to go all out AoE. You don't have to agree with it. I have a lot
of experience playing a mage, and I just found glyphs to be too good to pass up.

We are not discussing the usefulness of Glyphs; my point is simply to get damage first, control second. We are talking about an offensive mage, and the tools (s)he needs to attack and destroy enemies (not CC).

In the beginning I focus on my main damage spells. For me that is Fireball, Virulent Walking Bomb and Cone of Cold. The big AoEs like Storm of the Century are cool too, but I find them a bit boring.

That looks like a pretty offensive mage to me; except SotC - that's a defensive spell imho

If you have two mages that's fine. I like being able to choose my party freely and so I grab the essentials for my main character. What I consider to be the essentials anyway.

I never said you need a mage to increase the player's overall effectiveness. I know you know there are other ways to CC; but I think we can agree that two mages can work well together.

Huge boost, no. But yeah it's OK for the late game or if you want Mana Clash or Storm of the Century.

Depends on what you call huge. When spending the vast majority of attribute points into Magic, Spell Might will give a +20 spellpower bonus around level 20. That's almost 7 levels worth of attributes in Magic - I consider that a huge bonus (it's roughly a 20% damage increase and enemies are less likely to resist spells).

Uh... no. It really doesn't. Besides it's a huge mana drain. It's a cool spell for sure, but it's not THAT good. 

Depends. I believe the need to CC becomes less relevant if enemies can't hurt/touch you in the first place.

A single spell/buff that will increase mental (most spells cast against you are resisted); physical (most physical attacks are resisted/ far less knock downs and stuns) to 100. A 75% resistance against all elements. And a big boost to armor and defense at the cost of only 5% fatigue. The mana drain is almost neglectable with the proper gear and considering you'll have infinite potions; not something to worry about.

This spell alone makes a mage the toughest dude in town, butt naked! It even makes the SotC worthwhile; you can simply cast one on top of yourself and watch your enemies (and allies) die, while you harldy take any damage at all.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 20 novembre 2010 - 07:20 .

[termokanden]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

We are not discussing the usefulness of Glyphs; my point is simply to get damage first, control second. We are talking about an offensive mage, and the tools (s)he needs to attack and destroy enemies (not CC).

I think we agree for the most part but are just arguing about how to write it down

For example. I do take the best damage spells first. This is kind of obvious. I do make sure I have Glyphs and FF pretty quickly, but I tend to use Morrigan/Wynne for a couple of levels for that before I can get them myself.

That looks like a pretty offensive mage to me; except SotC - that's a defensive spell imho

 is about right. No fun attacking something you can't see that isn't even trying to fight back. This is why I banned the spell combo, house rules.

Depends on what you call huge. When spending the vast majority of attribute points into Magic, Spell Might will give a +20 spellpower bonus around level 20. That's almost 7 levels worth of attributes in Magic - I consider that a huge bonus (it's roughly a 20% damage increase and enemies are less likely to resist spells).

Fair enough. The 20% thing is highly debatable considering different spells have different spellpower coefficients but hey OK I agree that it's alright to use Spell Might late in the game.

Depends. I believe the need to CC becomes less relevant if enemies can't hurt/touch you in the first place.

True. But then so does Shimmering Shield. Anyway those spells aren't just for my mage, they're for the whole party. Buffing myself with Shimmering Shield doesn't save my warrior who from a bunch of irritating Shadow Wolves for example.

Modifié par termokanden, 20 novembre 2010 - 07:26 .

[Liliandra Nadiar]

termokanden wrote...

Regeneration and Heal are generally enough to get through anything. Still you shouldn't underestimate Group Heal. It's the biggest instant heal and is generally very convenient.

I was thinking... Spellbloom sounds like it's great if you have 2+ mages. I never actually used it though. Maybe it isn't worth the casting time. Anyone tried this?

PS: About Shimmering Shield. Apart from the mana drain, the problem with it is that it works only on yourself. It doesn't save your other party members the way Force Shield or Glyphs can. That's really what it can never replace them.

Using Spellbloom on my current run. (And I mean Rejuvination, not Regeneration, the ally only +stamina/mana recovery) Fairly good. Downsides are that it feeds enemy casters as well. Though a Mana Clash tends to take care of that. Dropped it at the start of my Flemeth fight (Wanted something different, my lighting/nature mage, SnS Ali, DW Zev, Dog and Archer Lel) and never saw mana fall below 60-70%. Have about 4-5 combat mana regen but I 'm pretty sure I would've bottomed out even with it. Not one death and Alistair now has two 'High Dragons' on his resume.
I'm very familiar with Group Heal, made several SH (warden and otherwise) so far, but my Dalish is Shapeshift/Blood Mage so no more specilizations for her.

[termokanden]

That's what I thought, and indeed I don't care about enemy mana. If it has mana it goes splat. If it has more mana, it goes... more splat? You get the picture

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Heh. Yeah. I don't use it too much, since most fights tend to be over in a few seconds, but the longer ones in a (relatively) confined/immobile area? They're outstanding to have on the ground.

[HippeusOmega]

Ok so far my Dalish elf mage Lvl 8 atm (just a normal elf but made him as dalish as possible) has the following spells and gear. So far i've put all points into magic also.

Arcane Bolt, Flame Blast, Flaming Weapons, Fireball, Lighting, Shock, Heal, Mind Blast, Force Field, Telekinetic Weapons, and Crushing Prison. I have Blood Mage Specialization but waiting till Lvl 11 or so before i pump the points into it. I also have 2 arcane tech books so far from Bohdan using the duplicate camp effect. So i have +2 spell points available right now. I also need Arcane Shield, Staff Focus and Arcane Mastery yet also.

Gear so far:

Weapon: Final Reason
Robe: Vestment of the Seer
Gloves: can't think of them they give me 10% spirit dmg though (from the camp)
Boots: Enchanter's Boots although i find Bard's Dancing Shoes or the other ones i have Morrigan wearing.
Belt: Sash of the Forbidden Secrets
Amulet: Warden's Oath
Ring 1: Lucky Ring
Ring 2: and the one from the circle

Pretty much know what gear to get to replace but need some advice on where to go with spells next. Should i do the Mana Clash line now that Crushing Prison line is done so i can head straight to the Circle of magi to get Wynne? Also i think i may consider the Walking bomb spells they sound appealing to me. Also i need some advice on gear wise when it comes to certain items

Final Reason vs. Staff of the Magister Lords?
Sash of the Forbidden Secrets vs. Andruil's Blessing?
Vestment of the Seer vs. Reaper's Vestments?

I also decided to make my 2nd Specialization AW. You just can't beat Shimmering Shield's nice effect. My 3rd Specialization is gonna be Keeper. I know it doesn't have a lot of love but its what i want when i get to Awakening. Also should i be Blood Magic mode all the time or only when i wanna use Blood Wound?

Modifié par Panznerr, 21 novembre 2010 - 02:36 .

[termokanden]

Gear:

1. Final Reason has more spellpower, but I still think overall Staff of the Magister Lord is better. Nice with a spirit damage boost and not just fire (Blood Wound for example deals spirit damage), and it has willpower and mana regen too.
2. I prefer the Sash over Andruil's Blessing. Superior mage stats except the mana regen. For an arcane warrior that doesn't just use spells, I think I'd go for Andruil's Blessing though.
3. Vestments of the Seer. No contest.

Blood magic:

I switch around. I cast a few spells in blood magic mode then I switch back and cast a few spells with mana, repeat. I find it hard to run out of mana this way.

Spells:

Completely up to you. You don't actually need Mana Clash for the Circle so it won't be an issue if you don't have it. I know it's easier with Mana Clash, but really it's just a little TOO easy

Modifié par termokanden, 21 novembre 2010 - 02:56 .

[Elhanan]

You may wish to aquire the Cold line, even if you do not wish to use SotC as it is one of the best lines of spells overall. And Walking Bomb is a lot of fun to use, and one does not need to take VWB unless the lesser spell does not kill quick enough for you; just watch Friendlies.

If you go AW, I recommend Cailan's armor, esp the boots, and Maric's arms just for the mana regen effect.

[termokanden]

The reason I recommend VWB if you get started on that line is because it does 50% more damage than Walking Bomb. It actually also makes sense to have both. You can put Walking Bomb in one group and VWB in another. I've done that often enough.