187 réponses à ce sujet

[PsychoBlonde]

I'm a bit curious about how lockpicking will work in the new game.  I really didn't like it in DA:O (I eventually downloaded a mod to let me bash chests with mages/warriors), but I wonder how specific this was to me.  Even if the chests contain nothing but my 400th Blank Vellum, just having the locked chests that I couldn't get into made me INSANE.  But it also made me a bit INSANE having to put 4 of my ability points in those stupid lockpicking abilities for my rogue.  Or always have a rogue in the party with said skills.  Especially since there were sections where I didn't have this option.

So, I'd like to hear people's opinions on this, and I think it'd be fun to brainstorm options to the whole locked boxes/doors mechanic, which seems more like an RPG "tradition" than an actual fun game mechanic to me the more games I play.  I mean, what does it boil down to?  Congratulations, you jumped through the hoops we arbitrarily threw in for "rogue flava"!  Here's your treat!  But it can't actually be a GOOD treat because that'd be cruel to all the sad non-hoop-jumping people.  Argh.

[Stick668]

I understand the rationale... I mean, I remember NWN's default where every chest or door that could be jiggered open could also be bashed, frost-wanded or spelled open with no drawback at all.

That said... yes, it was a bit grating that you "had" to bring a lockpicker. It also grated that you never actually found more than random junk, spare change and the odd consumable in any chest. (Yes, I'm aware that this is a self-imposed annoyance. I could just ignore the rogue-collectables and not actually lose out much.)

On a related note, did anyone bother using traps? I found them more trouble than they were worth. (Poison and bombs were good, though.)

Modifié par Stick668, 18 novembre 2010 - 12:09 .

[Crimson Invictus]

Stick668 wrote...
On a related note, did anyone bother using traps? I found them more trouble that they were worth. (Poison and bombs were good, though.)

They were quickly outclassed by other forms of damage, which all had a much lower set-up time, so after playing with them for a while to test them out, no, not really.

Modifié par Liana Nighthawk, 18 novembre 2010 - 12:07 .

[StingingVelvet]

I like choice and consequence... choose not to use a rogue at all and you lose the ability to open locked chests.



Would be sad to see it go.

[ErichHartmann]

I'd like to see lock bash from NWN and KOTOR return simply because most chests in DAO were worthless. Give more meaningful loot then lockpicking becomes more desirable.

[Bruddajakka]

Hawke will be able to open any look using a special type of liquid lyrium with acidic properties that he'll be able to gain from destroying useless gear.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Picking locks and disarming traps was pretty much the only non-combat XP available in DAO. I'd hate to lose that.

[andar91]

I didn't mind so much that only rogues could get into locked chests. What I HATED was how nearly every chest you ran across was locked. It felt like you couldn't get half of the items in the game without a lockpicking rogue.

[Xewaka]

Bruddajakka wrote...

Hawke will be able to open any look using a special type of liquid lyrium with acidic properties that he'll be able to gain from destroying useless gear.

Nah, they removed it on streamlining, doubt they'd bring it back.

[Ceridwen]

Lock bash would be neat; I think it would be interesting if the warriors and mages could, at (rare) times, damage the goods within the chest or wardrobe or whatever, if they were low-value consumables or items. And the rogue could still lockpick with finesse, not damaging the items at all.

Modifié par kwintessa, 18 novembre 2010 - 12:34 .

[Stick668]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Give more meaningful loot then lockpicking becomes more desirable.

This is pretty much my point of view.

(Unavoidable problem: if there are +55 Nucular Sword-like-objects Of Planet-Cleaving in half a dozen rogue-only chests, there will be Spoilers On The Net. And then you have "must bring Rogue to this place to get it". It's tricky, making rogue skills both exclusive and optional. If you see what I mean.)

[Sylvius the Mad]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Give more meaningful loot then lockpicking becomes more desirable.

The real prize from picking locks wasn't the loot.  It was the XP.

[Ziggeh]

I rather liked that it became part of party planning. It was a bit frustrating it restricted the way you specced a given rogue though.



I think it'd be a shame if it were lost, but it could be implemented slightly differently. A skill rather than a talent or something similar.

[Xewaka]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

Give more meaningful loot then lockpicking becomes more desirable.

The real prize from picking locks wasn't the loot.  It was the XP.

Ah yes. How happy I was to find out that on Baldur's Gate II disarming traps and picking locks gave out XP (as opposed to BG I). It validated my rogue choice.
I always thought the sthealthy route should earn more XP than the kill-em-all route.

[ErichHartmann]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

Give more meaningful loot then lockpicking becomes more desirable.

The real prize from picking locks wasn't the loot.  It was the XP.

The anticipation of finding good loot is a lot more fun than very minor XP gains.   Non - combat XP gains work great when a game offers substantial alternatives.  New Vegas is a good example of rewarding players with using speech rather than violence to diffuse a situation.  Yes, I do want non - combat XP gains to have a greater impact in future DA games if possible.       

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 18 novembre 2010 - 12:58 .

[blothulfur]

Ooh this chest in the abandoned redcliffe shop must contain some uber gear as I can't yet open it...........time passes.........effin red steel effin scale boots you utter ************. Seriously this has been bugging me since neverwinter nights, for our continued sanity bioware please change it.

[Maria Caliban]

Bruddajakka wrote...

Hawke will be able to open any look using a special type of liquid lyrium with acidic properties that he'll be able to gain from destroying useless gear.

But in DA 3, they'll remove that for a lockpicking minigame based on Memory.

[Ziggeh]

Maria Caliban wrote...

But in DA 3, they'll remove that for a lockpicking minigame based on Memory.

or "Probe launched"

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 18 novembre 2010 - 01:05 .

[Mike Laidlaw]

Lockpicking and trap disarms are still rogue-only abilities. They're primarily based on cunning this time around (rather than requiring talent points, which I felt was a little unbalanced with the otherwise combat-focused talent tree structure), though certain magical effects from equipment can help.

Similar to Origins, party-member rogues can disarm traps and pop locks if your main character is not a rogue, and also similar, there are XP rewards for the party for doing so.

[StingingVelvet]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Lockpicking and trap disarms are still rogue-only abilities. They're primarily based on cunning this time around (rather than requiring talent points, which I felt was a little unbalanced with the otherwise combat-focused talent tree structure), though certain magical effects from equipment can help.

Similar to Origins, party-member rogues can disarm traps and pop locks if your main character is not a rogue, and also similar, there are XP rewards for the party for doing so.

Good news, and I agree on the talent tree.  If there were a wealth of non-combat skills it would make more sense than it did.

[Crimson Invictus]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...



Lockpicking and trap disarms are still rogue-only abilities. They're primarily based on cunning this time around (rather than requiring talent points...

A nice change. I must admit I usually opt to simply ignore lock-picking in favour of more useful talents.

[Face of Evil]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Lockpicking and trap disarms are still rogue-only abilities. They're primarily based on cunning this time around (rather than requiring talent points, which I felt was a little unbalanced with the otherwise combat-focused talent tree structure), though certain magical effects from equipment can help.

Similar to Origins, party-member rogues can disarm traps and pop locks if your main character is not a rogue, and also similar, there are XP rewards for the party for doing so.

Glad to hear it. I support the changes, as well as keeping lockpicking as a rogue-only skill. Quite frankly, if you get frustrated over being unable to open chests while not allowing a single rogue in the party, that's your problem.

[Maverick827]

I would prefer if mages could magically open locks and warriors could bash locks as well, but it's not the end of the world, and if we get an updated toolset I suppose they will be able to regardless.

I tend to play through these games many times with all sorts of teams, and sometimes I just don't have a rogue in my party. It seems pretty unnecessary to have to run back to a camp, pick up a rogue, and then run through a completed dungeon again just because, as the OP put it, " just having the locked chests that I couldn't get into made me INSANE."

To preemptively counter what I assume will be Sylvius' opinion on the matter: I realize that I don't "deserve" to unlock things easily without a rogue, as that is a decided benefit of the class, but I am asking that the class is made without said allure in mind in the first place, thus allowing every class to have the ability in a fair and balanced manner.

[twincast]

What about pickpocketing? Making lockpicking the sole non-combat talent instead of a skill for the sake of it being rogue-exclusive was odd enough, but the dichotomy between only letting rogues pick locks and letting everyone pick pockets always bothered me especially much.

Modifié par twincast, 18 novembre 2010 - 01:36 .

[Ryzaki]

I frankly don't see why lockpicking and pickpocketing should be rogue exclusive abilities. One's class doesn't stop someone from learning how to steal. It's bad enough warriors can't use bows or dual wield. Don't take away my pickpocketing too D: